[CT Birds] CTBirds Digest, Vol 2146, Issue 1

Patrick psmithct at sbcglobal.net
Thu Jan 10 09:24:56 EST 2013






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Sent: Thu, January 10, 2013 8:25:46 AM
Subject: CTBirds Digest, Vol 2146, Issue 1

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: monk parakeets (Amy Hopkins)
   2. Re: monk parakeets (Kevin Burgio)
   3. Re: Monk Parakeets Invasive (Mark Szantyr)
   4. Re: monk parakeets (Arthur Shippee)
   5. Re: monk parakeet nest removal (Amy Hopkins)
   6. Assorted Reports (Roy Harvey)
   7. Orange backyard (Beverly Propen)
   8. Re: monk parakeet nest removal (David F Provencher)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 22:57:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Amy Hopkins <hopkinsus at cs.com>
To: ctbirds at lists.ctbirding.org, mcavallero1 at comcast.net,
    delia.berlin at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [CT Birds] monk parakeets
Message-ID: <8CFBCFDB76A8E01-1FB4-397F1 at webmail-m019.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

With regard to the many posts about monk parakeets on this group, please keep in 
mind certain things.  First, we did have another species of parrot here in CT, 
the Carolina parakeet, which we humans exterminated little more than a hundred 
years ago.  If they were still alive, this native species would have been waking 
everyone up with the dawn chorus as people report the monks do now.  And since I 
get woodpeckers banging on my house starting at 5 a.m. in season, certainly 
noisy bird sounds cannot be attributed only to monk parakeets.  Some people, 
including members of the Yale ornithology department, feel that monk parakeets 
are filling the niche left open by the Carolina parakeet.


Second, the term "invasive" is being used inappropriately.  An invasive species, 
whether it be animal or plant, is usually (though not always) a non-native 
species which, "adversely affect the habitats and bioregions they invade 
economically, environmentally, and/or ecologically" (per Wikipedia and in 
general use).  Note that even native species can be invasive.  Other than for 
the occasional sparring between utility companies and monk parakeets building 
their nests on transformers in some areas, there is no evidence that monk 
parakeets are invasive.  (Very recently one of our local utility companies also 
had a problem with an osprey nest built on a transformer.)  They have not 
displaced native species either in habitat or nesting sites.  They are not 
competing with native birds for food.  They have never been shown in the U.S. to 
be an agricultural pest, despite fears.  The monk parakeet population in CT is 
fairly stable since this is the northern end of their range and weather 
conditions do no lend themselves to widespread proliferation.


So for all of you who would like to see this non-native species exterminated, 
please tell me the reasons and scientific basis underlying your hatred of this 
delightful little green parrot.  I would give anything to have them in my yard.


Amy Hopkins
Guilford


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 23:10:43 -0500
From: Kevin Burgio <kevin.burgio at gmail.com>
To: Amy Hopkins <hopkinsus at cs.com>
Cc: "delia.berlin at gmail.com" <delia.berlin at gmail.com>,
    "ctbirds at lists.ctbirding.org" <ctbirds at lists.ctbirding.org>
Subject: Re: [CT Birds] monk parakeets
Message-ID: <29D5E3B0-0925-438E-B2EB-2545334E28DF at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii

Well, to clear up a common misconception, the Carolina Parakeet was not native 
to CT according to all available information.  The furthest north and east they 
got was New York State.  However, if they were still around, climate change and 
bird feeders may have shifted things enough for them to live here.

Secondly, I do not wish this discussion to devolve into a debate as to whether 
or not Monk Parakeets belong here.  This was not the intent of my original post, 
which was just to discuss the science regarding the seemingly odd sightings of 
the Monks in the past few weeks.  I think we can all agree that they are 
probably here to stay, like it or not, so discussing if they should be here only 
serves to further upset people for no real good reason. 


Kevin

On Jan 9, 2013, at 10:57 PM, Amy Hopkins <hopkinsus at cs.com> wrote:

> With regard to the many posts about monk parakeets on this group, please keep 
>in mind certain things.  First, we did have another species of parrot here in 
>CT, the Carolina parakeet, which we humans exterminated little more than a 
>hundred years ago.  If they were still alive, this native species would have 
>been waking everyone up with the dawn chorus as people report the monks do now.  
>And since I get woodpeckers banging on my house starting at 5 a.m. in season, 
>certainly noisy bird sounds cannot be attributed only to monk parakeets.  Some 
>people, including members of the Yale ornithology department, feel that monk 
>parakeets are filling the niche left open by the Carolina parakeet.
> 
> 
> Second, the term "invasive" is being used inappropriately.  An invasive 
>species, whether it be animal or plant, is usually (though not always) a 
>non-native species which, "adversely affect the habitats and bioregions they 
>invade economically, environmentally, and/or ecologically" (per Wikipedia and in 
>general use).  Note that even native species can be invasive.  Other than for 
>the occasional sparring between utility companies and monk parakeets building 
>their nests on transformers in some areas, there is no evidence that monk 
>parakeets are invasive.  (Very recently one of our local utility companies also 
>had a problem with an osprey nest built on a transformer.)  They have not 
>displaced native species either in habitat or nesting sites.  They are not 
>competing with native birds for food.  They have never been shown in the U.S. to 
>be an agricultural pest, despite fears.  The monk parakeet population in CT is 
>fairly stable since this is the northern end of their range and weather 
>conditions do no lend themselves to widespread proliferation.
> 
> 
> So for all of you who would like to see this non-native species exterminated, 
>please tell me the reasons and scientific basis underlying your hatred of this 
>delightful little green parrot.  I would give anything to have them in my yard.
> 
> 
> Amy Hopkins
> Guilford
> _______________________________________________
> This list is provided by the Connecticut Ornithological Association (COA) for 
>the discussion of birds and birding in Connecticut.
> For subscription information visit 
>http://lists.ctbirding.org/mailman/listinfo/ctbirds_lists.ctbirding.org



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 23:14:13 -0500
From: Mark Szantyr <birddog55 at charter.net>
To: Jamie Meyers <ctredbird2 at comcast.net>
Cc: "ctbirds at lists.ctbirding.org" <ctbirds at lists.ctbirding.org>
Subject: Re: [CT Birds] Monk Parakeets Invasive
Message-ID: <6A455FF3-18A4-4D1F-9F06-822A44B4FCC8 at charter.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii

I am without question 100% in agreement with Jamie.  Leave the parakeets 
alone!!!!!!  These incredibly beautiful and exotic members of the Connecticut 
avifauna thrill me to this day every time  I see or hear them. We are very lucky 
to have them and we would be so much the poorer without them. I feel a deep pang 
of sadness every time i go in to Hammonasset and realize the state took down/ 
destroyed the monk parakeet nests and removed the colony from the west 
campground. This is reprehensible and as a tax paying citizen who buys a parks 
pass every yesr. I am appalled at the cavalier arogance of this act.

Mark 

On Jan 9, 2013, at 10:48 PM, Jamie Meyers <ctredbird2 at comcast.net> wrote:

> Or we could just leave the damn birds alone, let them be and enjoy the fact 
>that we have parakeets to look at -- since our ancestors wiped out the only 
>natives ones we had generations ago.
> 
> Jamie Meyers
> Canton, CT
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kevin Burgio <kevin.burgio at gmail.com>
> To: Sarah Faulkner <sffaulkner at comcast.net>
> Cc: Dan Rottino <rottino at hotmail.com>, <ctbirds at lists.ctbirding.org> 
><ctbirds at lists.ctbirding.org>
> Sent: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 03:31:42 -0000 (UTC)
> Subject: Re: [CT Birds] Monk Parakeets Invasive
> 
> Well, such a study would be possible and potentially informative.  However, in 
>order for the results to support your hypothesis, you would need an appropriate 
>sample size and replicates, and to account for other variables, such as climate, 
>time of year, and etc.  The destruction of a large multi-chambered nest may have 
>very different impacts in the winter than the summer and might be different in a 
>place such as Florida rather than here. 
>
> 
> Secondly, you'd either have to wait until a storm to knocked down enough nests, 
>which may have been the case with Sandy, or you'd have to physically knock them 
>down and I doubt many people would be happy about someone doing that. To wait 
>for a storm to hit, you'd have to know the location and size of each nest in the 
>study area both before and after the storm as well as continue to monitor the 
>study area for a great deal of time afterward.  And, honesty, that is just the 
>tip of the iceberg and just off the top of my head.  More than likely, you'd 
>also need to monitor individual birds over a period of time before and after to 
>determine the impact the event had on their population numbers. 
>
> 
> So, yes, while it is possible that such a study could be done, it is beyond my 
>ability at this time to do so, since I already have too many research projects 
>going on at the moment to finish my Ph.D. in as timely manner as I (and my wife) 
>would like.  I'd be more than happy to consult with anyone interested in 
>pursuing it further though, even in a less rigorous manner than I would 
>personally pursue it.
> 
> Kevin
> 
> On Jan 9, 2013, at 8:39 PM, "Sarah Faulkner"  wrote:
> 
>> This discussion highlights the importance of good scientific investigation in 
>>wildlife management.  To eradicate or encourage a species, you need to 
>>understand their feeding, habitat and behavioral needs.  Monk parakeets are 
>>colonial birds, meaning they live and breed in colonies, sometimes large ones.   
>>The prevailing theory about their colonies is that, by breaking up the colony, 
>>you cause the death of the birds.  Certainly the lack of birds in large numbers, 
>>following destruction of the nests, seems to support that theory.  So, maybe 
>>they're not like bittersweet or some other invasives, but rather like bees, 
>>where an essential element (the queen, or the critical mass of birds) is 
>>necessary to the health and existence of the whole colony.
>> 
>> Sarah Faulkner
>> Collinsville, CT
>> 
>> essage ----- From: "Dan Rottino" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 7:50 PM
>> Subject: Re: [CT Birds] Monk Parakeets Invasive
>> 
>> 
>>> Like many invasive species, Bittersweet comes to mind, if u don't root it all 
>>>out, it only makes the problem worse.  Chopping down bittersweet only makes the 
>>>roots sprout more shoots therefore multiplying the problem. I attended an 
>>>invasive species workshop last May and this is exactly what happens With many 
>>>invasives.  Roy's hypothesis is logical and can be tested/documented.  So Roy, 
>>>that is the start of the scientific process. Your idea is a testable scientific 
>>>hypothesis.  Evidence is needed.  The hypothesis can be supported by evidence or 
>>>not in the end.  Kevin are you the one who can accomplish this task?  P. S.  I 
>>>can occasionally monitor that nest if it would be helpful / I took a look at it 
>>>today for example.
>>> 
>>> They've gotta be somewhere.
>>> Dan Rottino
>>> Sent from my iPhone.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> This list is provided by the Connecticut Ornithological Association (COA) for 
>>>the discussion of birds and birding in Connecticut.
>>> For subscription information visit 
>>>http://lists.ctbirding.org/mailman/listinfo/ctbirds_lists.ctbirding.org
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> This list is provided by the Connecticut Ornithological Association (COA) for 
>>the discussion of birds and birding in Connecticut.
>> For subscription information visit 
>>http://lists.ctbirding.org/mailman/listinfo/ctbirds_lists.ctbirding.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> This list is provided by the Connecticut Ornithological Association (COA) for 
>the discussion of birds and birding in Connecticut.
> For subscription information visit 
>http://lists.ctbirding.org/mailman/listinfo/ctbirds_lists.ctbirding.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> This list is provided by the Connecticut Ornithological Association (COA) for 
>the discussion of birds and birding in Connecticut.
> For subscription information visit 
>http://lists.ctbirding.org/mailman/listinfo/ctbirds_lists.ctbirding.org



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 23:34:46 -0500
From: Arthur Shippee <ashippee at snet.net>
To: Birds General reports <ctbirds at lists.ctbirding.org>
Cc: Porterfield M <mporterfield at SNET.net>
Subject: Re: [CT Birds] monk parakeets
Message-ID: <FB3FC1C4-72A3-4F74-9655-60AECADE5107 at snet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii

Thanks, Amy, for these notes:  I'm glad to know they aren't in competition, my 
major fear.  As for range, with warming that may change.

On Jan 9, 2013, at 10:57 PM, Amy Hopkins wrote:

> They have not displaced native species either in habitat or nesting sites.  
>They are not competing with native birds for food.  They have never been shown 
>in the U.S. to be an agricultural pest, despite fears.  The monk parakeet 
>population in CT is fairly stable since this is the northern end of their range 
>and weather conditions do no lend themselves to widespread proliferation.



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 23:45:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Amy Hopkins <hopkinsus at cs.com>
To: ctbirds at lists.ctbirding.org
Subject: Re: [CT Birds] monk parakeet nest removal
Message-ID: <8CFBD0478F11981-1FB4-39B97 at webmail-m019.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


This is the first I'm hearing about nest removal in Hammonasset.  When did this 
occur and why?  They weren't on power transformers, were they?  Did they kill 
the birds?  What time of year did they do nest removal?  Was this the DEEP?


Amy



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 21:46:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Roy Harvey <rmharvey at snet.net>
To: ctbirds at lists.ctbirding.org
Subject: [CT Birds] Assorted Reports
Message-ID:
    <1357796800.2966.YahooMailClassic at web181103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Passing these along.


>From Judy Richardson
There were 8 Snow geese at the Country Club of Fairfield golf course and 2 
Killdeer yesterday. Will check again today.


>From David Zomick
12:45 PM Dave Rosgen Paul Desjardins and Roy Harvey David Zomick good looks at 
Hoary Redpoll


>From Mike and Judy Whittlesey
01/09/13- Hilltop Rd., Windsor
2 Hoary Redpolls, 1 Common Redpoll, 3 Red-breasted Nuthaches
at our feeders.


>From Peter Borgemeister 
January 9 in Ashlar Village grounds, Wallingford
A flock of about 100 robins were foraging on a fruit bearing tree in a courtyard 
within the grounds of Ashlar Village


Roy Harvey
Beacon Falls, CT



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 08:03:53 -0500
From: Beverly Propen <bpropen at gmail.com>
To: ctbirds at lists.ctbirding.org
Subject: [CT Birds] Orange backyard
Message-ID:
    <CAMcNza=YOo7bRBY0iSKP7HaBAKmeM-_YRQ2aiHSKTy01mKzrfA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

1/10/13  Orange backyard
7:50AM
4 Common Redpolls in flowering plum tree where some of the feeders hang.
Last time they were in my yard was Jan. 24, 2011.  I knew they would
finally get down here  :)
Bev Propen, Orange


------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 08:25:31 -0500
From: David F Provencher <david.f.provencher at dom.com>
To: "ctbirds at lists.ctbirding.org" <ctbirds at lists.ctbirding.org>
Subject: Re: [CT Birds] monk parakeet nest removal
Message-ID:
    
<1E4A9ED453FC3D4E8BE062238B9197F40AA3EDFAEE at DOM-MBX03.mbu.ad.dominionnet.com>
    
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"

The original post on this subject was quite informative and I am very pleased 
when Kevin shares info with the forum. Not all researchers are so generous with 
their data. However I don't wish to see this thread "hijacked" as they say, and 
I'm not sure why some additional comments have been made that imply the topic 
was the destruction of Monk Parakeets or their nests. I rather doubt anyone on 
this listserv is inclined to avian mass destruction. While it speaks well of 
individuals (in my opinion) that they feel passionately about protecting the 
birds we love, and I'm proud this forum has such members, I hope the membership 
can keep it in mind that from a larger perspective we're all pretty much of one 
mind here. Understanding the natural world and sharing information is absolutely 
vital to the preservation of our natural world. Ignorance is a powerful enemy of 
conservation.

Dave

David Provencher
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------------------------------

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------------------------------

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