[CT Birds] CTBirds Digest, Vol 2204, Issue 4 "Rough" Grous

Julie Keefer julie.keefer at gmail.com
Sat Mar 9 21:17:42 EST 2013


I am probably in a minority but wouldn't it be expected as the years go by
and habitat changes that bird species are going to move around based on
those habitat changes?  At one point much of the area was clear cut and the
bird species would have been very different than now.  Is it such a bad
thing that the species are changing?  Why do we have to preserve the
current count of birds and their habitat at some random designated point in
history?  As things change, the birds change.  Maybe you have to go
elsewhere to see these birds.  Maybe the birds evolve or even die out.  How
is it better to maintain habitat beneficial to one species when the
changing habitat may be beneficial to other species?  Relatively speaking
I've not been birding that long but I recall changing species distributions
in areas.  Seems pretty natural to me.  And as far as hunters go, a lot of
them are just as interested in keeping the species healthy as birders,
because if there aren't healthy populations, they can't hunt them.  Anyone
else a member of Ducks Unlimited and National Audubon?  Membership in the 2
are not mutually exclusive.

Julie Keefer
North Stonington
On Mar 9, 2013 8:43 PM, <ctbirds-request at lists.ctbirding.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Greater White Fronted Wallingford (Dan Rottino)
>    2. Re: State response to Rough Grouse (David Provencher)
>    3. Re: State response to Rough Grouse (Kathy Van Der Aue)
>    4. Re: State response to Rough Grouse (David Provencher)
>    5. Burlington Back Yard (Jonathan Schwartz)
>    6. Burlington Back Yard (Jonathan Schwartz)
>    7. Tufted Duck - no (dbobolink at aol.com)
>    8. Norwalk: Golden-crowned Kinglets (Mike Warner)
>    9. Meadowlarks,Buntings,& Woodcocks (Tina and Peter Green)
>   10. Assorted reports (Roy Harvey)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2013 13:00:04 -0500
> From: Dan Rottino <rottino at hotmail.com>
> To: "ctbirds at lists.ctbirding.org" <ctbirds at lists.ctbirding.org>
> Subject: [CT Birds] Greater White Fronted Wallingford
> Message-ID: <BAY403-EAS266523FA75208299CD7C451BAE70 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> From Dan Rottino:
> 3/9/13-Wallingford, Whirlwind Rd-- 1 GREATER WHITE-FRONTED GOOSE with 200
> Canada Geese close to the road in farm swale at the bottom of the hill
> between Pistapaug Pond and S. Branford Rd.
>
> They've gotta be somewhere.
> Dan Rottino
> Sent from my iPhone.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2013 13:04:21 -0500
> From: "David Provencher" <davidprovencher at sbcglobal.net>
> To: <ctbirds at lists.ctbirding.org>
> Subject: Re: [CT Birds] State response to Rough Grouse
> Message-ID: <001f01ce1cf0$873b6af0$95b240d0$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>
> Patrick makes a very good point. And I'm not a hunter nor have I ever
> hunted
> Ruffed Grouse, except with binoculars that is! And in an ideal world I
> would
> very much prefer that no avian species be hunted by humans anywhere on the
> planet. However, habitat management is the only way we are going to
> increase
> the population in CT, or even just avoid extirpation in CT. We may well
> already at the point that Ruffed Grouse recovery in CT will require
> importation of birds from outside our state. Take Northern Bobwhite as an
> example. Many Bobwhite are released each year for hunting. Now I know many
> of these birds are less than savvy when it comes to being in the wild, but
> if there was abundant habitat some of these birds would establish
> themselves. But there is precious little habitat for them currently in CT.
> I
> believe Bobwhite require a habitat mix that is a bit more complex than
> Ruffed Grouse, but the successional habitat is needed by both. In order to
> have the best chance of a successful recovery program for Ruffed Grouse
> there needs to be the largest possible human community interested in making
> it happen. That really means trying to get a coalition of birders,
> conservation groups, and hunters, (as a minimum) to influence legislatures
> to bring funding to bear in a time when virtually all funding is shrinking.
> Not easy, as Patrick well knows. I for one am happy we have people such as
> Patrick (and many others) working towards such goals. In a political
> environment of ever increasing partisanship and devaluation of scientific
> research, we have many challenges that can only be properly addressed by
> trying to build consensus.
>
> Dave Provencher
>
> Naturally New England
> http://naturallynewengland.blogspot.com/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: CTBirds [mailto:ctbirds-bounces at lists.ctbirding.org] On Behalf Of
> Comins, Patrick
> Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2013 9:50 AM
> To: ctbirds at lists.ctbirding.org
> Subject: Re: [CT Birds] State response to Rough Grouse
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2013 14:15:45 -0500
> From: Kathy Van Der Aue <kathyvda at gmail.com>
> To: David Provencher <davidprovencher at sbcglobal.net>
> Cc: ctbirds at lists.ctbirding.org
> Subject: Re: [CT Birds] State response to Rough Grouse
> Message-ID:
>         <CAOEr3xXHR-=
> rpLS1C9pBdgzW2aRVqbFfM3XLkWLvxTpvH-d7Yw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> But don't you, Dave, Pat and others think that *at least* a temporary
> hunting moritorium on our own home-grown Connecticut Grouse would be a good
> thing, while the habitat recovers?  Why should we import Grouse in the
> future when we might salvage our own?  I'm sad that we no longer have
> Bobwhite native in Connecticut.  Some escaped caged grown bird just doesn't
> make it for me.  I would hate to see the Ruffed Grouse follow that path.  I
> do believe the Christmas Count indicates a real problem here, possibly one
> that we don't have time to solve by habitat resoration and hope for the
> best, whil;e hunters blast away.
>
>
> Kathy Van Der Aue
> Southport, Connecticut
> Visit my Blog at http://naturaliststable.wordpress.com
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 1:04 PM, David Provencher <
> davidprovencher at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > Patrick makes a very good point. And I'm not a hunter nor have I ever
> > hunted
> > Ruffed Grouse, except with binoculars that is! And in an ideal world I
> > would
> > very much prefer that no avian species be hunted by humans anywhere on
> the
> > planet. However, habitat management is the only way we are going to
> > increase
> > the population in CT, or even just avoid extirpation in CT. We may well
> > already at the point that Ruffed Grouse recovery in CT will require
> > importation of birds from outside our state. Take Northern Bobwhite as an
> > example. Many Bobwhite are released each year for hunting. Now I know
> many
> > of these birds are less than savvy when it comes to being in the wild,
> but
> > if there was abundant habitat some of these birds would establish
> > themselves. But there is precious little habitat for them currently in
> CT.
> > I
> > believe Bobwhite require a habitat mix that is a bit more complex than
> > Ruffed Grouse, but the successional habitat is needed by both. In order
> to
> > have the best chance of a successful recovery program for Ruffed Grouse
> > there needs to be the largest possible human community interested in
> making
> > it happen. That really means trying to get a coalition of birders,
> > conservation groups, and hunters, (as a minimum) to influence
> legislatures
> > to bring funding to bear in a time when virtually all funding is
> shrinking.
> > Not easy, as Patrick well knows. I for one am happy we have people such
> as
> > Patrick (and many others) working towards such goals. In a political
> > environment of ever increasing partisanship and devaluation of scientific
> > research, we have many challenges that can only be properly addressed by
> > trying to build consensus.
> >
> > Dave Provencher
> >
> > Naturally New England
> > http://naturallynewengland.blogspot.com/
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: CTBirds [mailto:ctbirds-bounces at lists.ctbirding.org] On Behalf Of
> > Comins, Patrick
> > Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2013 9:50 AM
> > To: ctbirds at lists.ctbirding.org
> > Subject: Re: [CT Birds] State response to Rough Grouse
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > This list is provided by the Connecticut Ornithological Association (COA)
> > for the discussion of birds and birding in Connecticut.
> > For subscription information visit
> > http://lists.ctbirding.org/mailman/listinfo/ctbirds_lists.ctbirding.org
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2013 14:52:27 -0500
> From: "David Provencher" <davidprovencher at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "'Kathy Van Der Aue'" <kathyvda at gmail.com>
> Cc: ctbirds at lists.ctbirding.org
> Subject: Re: [CT Birds] State response to Rough Grouse
> Message-ID: <002a01ce1cff$a107e350$e317a9f0$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>
> Being an idealist, If I had my druthers Kathy I'd say yes. But here is my
> opinion why it might work against the future of Ruffed Grouse in CT. Much
> of
> the hunting community looks at birders in a less than complimentary way,
> and
> the reverse is true for many birder's opinion of hunters. I absolutely do
> not want to see that situation debated on CTBirds however, emotions and
> problem solving rarely mix well. I know when I'm hot under the collar I
> make
> stupid decisions! Okay, not just when I'm angry. So given there is less
> than
> a warm relationship between the two communities, it is unlikely an imposed
> moratorium is going to be received well by the hunting community. It is
> more
> likely going to be perceived as the thin tip of the wedge of more
> restrictions driven by birders coming down the road. I also believe we are
> already at the point where recovery in CT must include mostly transported
> or
> hacked birds. The empirical evidence of breeding bird surveys and Christmas
> Count data, combined with my own anecdotal evidence of hiking many hundreds
> of miles across the CT landscape since last I encountered a Ruffed Grouse
> or
> their tracks, leads me believe we have so few left that the existing
> population is too small to recover, even with significant habitat
> management, in a reasonable time if at all.
>
>
>
> If a coalition of hunters and conservationists jointly recommended a
> temporary cessation of harvesting, combined with habitat management, that
> would be a different thing. That would not be without its critics in the
> hunting community but it would be a much better approach. It would also get
> real attention in the legislature. It would be perceived as: If birders and
> hunters agree, there must be a real crises! There are many examples of
> avian
> species rebounding in the US and a great many of those successes were
> wrought with a large (or very large) contribution from the hunting
> community. Now I know birders and hunters will always have many differing
> opinions on many issues, but we have worked together for our mutual benefit
> in the past and we can in the future. I believe sometimes we have to accept
> certain things in the short term  that we would rather not accept in order
> to achieve the best result in the long term. I think there is one
> fundamental truth here, that the future of Ruffed Grouse in CT is tied to
> long term habitat management. The birding community is unlikely to achieve
> that acting unilaterally.
>
>
>
> Dave Provencher
>
> Naturally New England
>
> http://naturallynewengland.blogspot.com/
>
> From: Kathy Van Der Aue [mailto:kathyvda at gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2013 2:16 PM
> To: David Provencher
> Cc: ctbirds at lists.ctbirding.org
> Subject: Re: [CT Birds] State response to Rough Grouse
>
>
>
> But don't you, Dave, Pat and others think that at least a temporary hunting
> moritorium on our own home-grown Connecticut Grouse would be a good thing,
> while the habitat recovers?  Why should we import Grouse in the future when
> we might salvage our own?  I'm sad that we no longer have Bobwhite native
> in
> Connecticut.  Some escaped caged grown bird just doesn't make it for me.  I
> would hate to see the Ruffed Grouse follow that path.  I do believe the
> Christmas Count indicates a real problem here, possibly one that we don't
> have time to solve by habitat resoration and hope for the best, whil;e
> hunters blast away.
>
>
>
>
> Kathy Van Der Aue
> Southport, Connecticut
>
> Visit my Blog at http://naturaliststable.wordpress.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2013 14:57:56 -0500
> From: Jonathan Schwartz <jonathan at jschwartz.com>
> To: CT Birds <ctbirds at lists.ctbirding.org>
> Subject: [CT Birds] Burlington Back Yard
> Message-ID:
>         <CAEy0OdURRkmFE-Uxnvfy0dQpFHnM0+yaeUCgZcOQqyVM=
> uUw+Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> At the feeder or near it today,
>
> A red-breasted nuthatch
> Blue jays
> chickadees
> titmice
> juncos
> A pair of cardinals
> Downy and Hairy woodpeckers
> A pileated flew by but didn't stay
> The crows took off to chase a pair of ravens
>
> Saw skunk cabbage blooming today!
>
> Jon
>
> --
> "Everyone is beautiful when they smile."
>
> Information for students, parents and teachers at http://www.jschwartz.com
> Students see http://students.jschwartz.com
> Blog:  http://blog.whps.org/hallearthscience
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2013 14:59:22 -0500
> From: Jonathan Schwartz <jonathan at jschwartz.com>
> To: CT Birds <ctbirds at lists.ctbirding.org>
> Subject: [CT Birds] Burlington Back Yard
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAEy0OdUqk2KGtsLT6OJrXTZheMmT3xi1n-gFRcL81axps3fC3g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> At the feeder or near it today,
>
> A red-breasted nuthatch
> Blue jays
> chickadees
> titmice
> juncos
> A pair of cardinals
> Downy and Hairy woodpeckers
> A pileated flew by but didn't stay
> The crows took off to chase a pair of ravens
>
> Saw skunk cabbage blooming today!
>
> Jon
>
> --
> "Everyone is beautiful when they smile."
>
> Information for students, parents and teachers at http://www.jschwartz.com
> Students see http://students.jschwartz.com
> Blog:  http://blog.whps.org/hallearthscience
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2013 16:21:36 -0500 (EST)
> From: dbobolink at aol.com
> To: ctbirds at lists.ctbirding.org
> Subject: [CT Birds] Tufted Duck - no
> Message-ID: <8CFEB2335E92024-2434-26A65 at webmail-m159.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> >From Robert Dixon
> 3/9/13 - Griswold - 1:00pm - 2:00pm - marsh on rte.138 east of rte. 201
> and a few other nearby ponds. No sign of any Tufted Duck, just small
> numbers of Ring-necked Ducks, Hooded Mergansers, Mallards and American
> Black Ducks.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2013 16:45:05 -0500
> From: Mike Warner <mjwarner at optonline.net>
> To: ctbirds at lists.ctbirding.org
> Subject: [CT Birds] Norwalk: Golden-crowned Kinglets
> Message-ID: <8FFCABC48F8B48CA9786C1DD00F2716E at OfficePC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> 3/9/13  Norwalk,  Allen Road Senior Center - 3 Golden-crowned Kinglets
>
>     2  pm -  Behind the Senior Center there were 3 Golden-crowned Kinglets
> working the hillside (over the fence) between the two ponds.  On 14 Acre
> Pond were the Mallards and Gadwalls with 8 Green-winged Teal, 4 Ring-necked
> Ducks, 2 Wood Ducks and 18 Painted Turtles catching some rays.  On nearby
> Woods Pond (East Rocks Road) were 32 Hooded Mergansers and the usuals.
>
> What a welcome change in the weather!
>
> Mike Warner
> Wilton Ct.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2013 20:11:16 -0500
> From: Tina and Peter Green <petermgreen at hotmail.com>
> To: CT Birds <ctbirds at lists.ctbirding.org>
> Subject: [CT Birds] Meadowlarks,Buntings,& Woodcocks
> Message-ID: <BLU405-EAS1288C515C0E18F9C8535A97AFE00 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> 3/9/13 -Old Lyme- Great Island - 5 Eastern Meadowlarks
>
> Stonington- Stonington Point - Leusistic  Common Loon continues(seen with
> Sara Zagorski)
>
> Mystic- Enders Island- (with Sara Zagorski)- 9 Snow Buntings first seen on
> the seawall and then feeding on the ground near the "stations of the cross".
>
> Waterford- Harkness Memorial SP- 6 Purple Sandpipers(with Sara Zagorski)
>
> Westport - CT Audubon Tree Farm - 6:11- 6:45 pm - at least 5 American
> Woodcock heard and seen with Charlie Barnard, Dave Zawisha,Dave Cadra,and
> Judy,Sue,and AJ Hand
>
> Tina Green
> Westport
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2013 17:42:27 -0800 (PST)
> From: Roy Harvey <rmharvey at snet.net>
> To: ctbirds at lists.ctbirding.org
> Subject: [CT Birds] Assorted reports
> Message-ID:
>         <1362879747.14237.YahooMailClassic at web181104.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Passing these along.
>
>
>  From Andrew Landsman - Chester CT
> Reporting 20 ring necked ducks in Moodus Reservoir today. By south
> causeway.  Beautiful birds.   Also two common ravens and a bald eagle in
> Haddam.
>
>
>  From David Keller
> Trumbull, Twin brooks park. Three pairs of COMMON MERGANSER in the first
> pond in the park from the White  Plains Rd entrance
>
>
> Roy Harvey
> Beacon Falls, CT
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> This list is provided by the Connecticut Ornithological Association (COA)
> for the discussion of birds and birding in Connecticut.
> For subscription information visit
> http://lists.ctbirding.org/mailman/listinfo/ctbirds_lists.ctbirding.org
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of CTBirds Digest, Vol 2204, Issue 4
> ****************************************
>



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