Dear Friends This morning I sent the following ill-advised message. Please accept my sincere apologies - especially, my apologies to Barry Wellman who initiated this lively discussion. I fell victim to a momentary lapse of judgment and impatience. Instead of supporting open discussion and exchange of ideas, my message tried to discourage it. It was a mistake and shouldn't happen again. I am honored to be a member of this illustrious group and have no intention to violate this privilege. Thank you for your understanding. Alladi Venkatesh   -----Original Message----- From: Venkatesh, Alladi Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 11:54 AM To: ellis.godard@csun.edu; 'jeremy hunsinger'; 'communication and information technology section asa' Subject: RE: [CITASA] capitalism I know this is an important topic...is there some way to restrict the distribution of these commentaries? I have no interest in the topic and I am sure there must be quite a few like me. Thank you very much Alladi Venkatesh -----Original Message----- From: citasa-bounces@list.citasa.org [mailto:citasa-bounces@list.citasa.org] On Behalf Of Ellis Godard Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 10:03 AM To: 'jeremy hunsinger'; 'communication and information technology section asa' Subject: Re: [CITASA] capitalism FWIW, the idea of "limited resources" is subject to dispute, as new resources are created and new uses are found both for old materials and new waste. As resources are redefined and rediscovered, opportunities for growth expand - if not perpetually, at least incrementally. -eg > -----Original Message----- > From: citasa-bounces@list.citasa.org [mailto:citasa-bounces@list.citasa.org] On > Behalf Of jeremy hunsinger > Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 5:52 AM > To: communication and information technology section asa > Subject: [CITASA] capitalism > > well, let's take a bit of Annales school in hand and follow Braudel > that noted.... > institutionally, we have never had capitalism, nor, markets. We have had anti- > markets, that is, we have had small groups of people exchanging goods > in private. > Markets, to be markets, must be public. Adrienne hits Stiglitz's idea perfectly, > states/corporations, create uneven playing fields that are not free or open, which is > braudel's idea from many years ago. > > Capitalism, in the idea that it is good to collect capital and > everyone should do that, > never really existed, what we ended up with was corporatism, which > again is about > private exchanges and usually fixed prices. It never existed because immediately > we created underclasses that could not participate. It existed for > some, perhaps for > a while, until they found better ways to produce what they wanted. > Ohhh, I think > we are doing pretty well saying that capitalism is in 'crisis' too, > and reaching its 'end > times' or 'zero sum' as the only place you are likely to find > something like > capitalism is amongst children or at swap meets... capitalism and markets... are too > inefficient, i'd guess in the end, for people that want to make money. > > > Here's the big question how can you have a regime of permanent growth.... in a > world with limit resources and thus limited population support? if you can resolve > that... without science fiction, then you are a better political > economist of capitalism > than i... granted many are. > > > > > Jeremy Hunsinger > Center for Digital Discourse and Culture Political Science Virginia > Tech > > > > Everything you can imagine is real. > --Pablo Picasso > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > CITASA mailing list > CITASA@list.citasa.org > http://list.citasa.org/mailman/listinfo/citasa_list.citasa.org _______________________________________________ CITASA mailing list CITASA@list.citasa.org http://list.citasa.org/mailman/listinfo/citasa_list.citasa.org

I apologize for you feeling the need to apologize. You did nothing wrong that I can discern, I hope my email did not make you think that you did anything wrong. It was intended to say, there is a better way to manage your affairs than to require the intervention of others. You did nothing, in my opinion, that warrants public apology, and anyone who implies that you did, owes you an apology. I wouldn't worry that the discussion ended after your message, I think it was going to end then anyway, as I think it was heading off-topic. -j On Aug 31, 2010, at 2:04 AM, Venkatesh, Alladi wrote: > Dear Friends > > This morning I sent the following ill-advised message. Please accept my sincere apologies - especially, my apologies to Barry Wellman who initiated this lively discussion. I fell victim to a momentary lapse of judgment and impatience. Instead of supporting open discussion and exchange of ideas, my message tried to discourage it. It was a mistake and shouldn't happen again. I am honored to be a member of this illustrious group and have no intention to violate this privilege. > > Thank you for your understanding. > > Alladi Venkatesh > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Venkatesh, Alladi > Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 11:54 AM > To: ellis.godard@csun.edu; 'jeremy hunsinger'; 'communication and information technology section asa' > Subject: RE: [CITASA] capitalism > > I know this is an important topic...is there some way to restrict the distribution of these commentaries? I have no interest in the topic and I am sure there must be quite a few like me. > > Thank you very much > > Alladi Venkatesh > > -----Original Message----- > From: citasa-bounces@list.citasa.org [mailto:citasa-bounces@list.citasa.org] On Behalf Of Ellis Godard > Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 10:03 AM > To: 'jeremy hunsinger'; 'communication and information technology section asa' > Subject: Re: [CITASA] capitalism > > FWIW, the idea of "limited resources" is subject to dispute, as new resources are created and new uses are found both for old materials and new waste. As resources are redefined and rediscovered, opportunities for growth expand - if not perpetually, at least incrementally. > > -eg > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: citasa-bounces@list.citasa.org > [mailto:citasa-bounces@list.citasa.org] On >> Behalf Of jeremy hunsinger >> Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 5:52 AM >> To: communication and information technology section asa >> Subject: [CITASA] capitalism >> >> well, let's take a bit of Annales school in hand and follow Braudel >> that > noted.... >> institutionally, we have never had capitalism, nor, markets. We have had > anti- >> markets, that is, we have had small groups of people exchanging goods >> in > private. >> Markets, to be markets, must be public. Adrienne hits Stiglitz's idea > perfectly, >> states/corporations, create uneven playing fields that are not free or > open, which is >> braudel's idea from many years ago. >> >> Capitalism, in the idea that it is good to collect capital and >> everyone > should do that, >> never really existed, what we ended up with was corporatism, which >> again > is about >> private exchanges and usually fixed prices. It never existed because > immediately >> we created underclasses that could not participate. It existed for >> some, > perhaps for >> a while, until they found better ways to produce what they wanted. >> Ohhh, > I think >> we are doing pretty well saying that capitalism is in 'crisis' too, >> and > reaching its 'end >> times' or 'zero sum' as the only place you are likely to find >> something > like >> capitalism is amongst children or at swap meets... capitalism and > markets... are too >> inefficient, i'd guess in the end, for people that want to make money. >> >> >> Here's the big question how can you have a regime of permanent growth.... > in a >> world with limit resources and thus limited population support? if you > can resolve >> that... without science fiction, then you are a better political >> economist > of capitalism >> than i... granted many are. >> >> >> >> >> Jeremy Hunsinger >> Center for Digital Discourse and Culture Political Science Virginia >> Tech >> >> >> >> Everything you can imagine is real. >> --Pablo Picasso >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> CITASA mailing list >> CITASA@list.citasa.org >> http://list.citasa.org/mailman/listinfo/citasa_list.citasa.org > > > _______________________________________________ > CITASA mailing list > CITASA@list.citasa.org > http://list.citasa.org/mailman/listinfo/citasa_list.citasa.org Jeremy Hunsinger Political Science Center for Digital Discourse and Culture Virginia Tech () ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail /\ - against microsoft attachments http://www.tmttlt.com You cannot depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus. --Mark Twain