In a message dated 12/27/2004 10:00:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, scottebulger@comcast.net writes: Anyway, if list members can confirm that it would be unrealistic to take possession of a boat, and head out right away, that would be helpful in my planning. Scott asks a very interesting question and I believe from previous posts that he is thinking about a 2 year training process himself which makes all the sense in the world. While I am no expert I have some thoughts. It seems to me that the proper time to take off to cross an ocean depends on the experience level of three things -- the boat (yup, the boat), the owners (and by this I mean both assuming the boat's primary crew is a couple) and finally of the owners and the boat together. First, today's passagemakers are generally pretty complex boats and it does take some time to get all systems properly working on a new boat. Even on a used boat, it would seem advisable to shake it down pretty well so that you truly know the boat and how it operates. How you shake it down is up to you. Many of the Nordhavns delivered at Dana Point head north to Alaska and in the process develop a punch list that they attend to on the way south as they pass through Dana Point again. In my view, the boat needs some real experience before heading off across an ocean. The second big factor in determining how soon one can head off across an ocean is the owners' (both of them) level of experience and knowledge. The more mechanical, boat handling, offshore and other experience that both owners have, the sooner they and the boat will be ready for a passage. For example, if you put Georgs, Bob Austin or Mike Maurice in a brand new Nordhavn, their skill and experience would enable them to head out sooner than the rest of us would be ready. They would likely be prepared to deal with any problems that might arise sooner than the rest of us. Finally, especially for boaters that are not skilled delivery skippers such as Mike Maurice, it takes a reasonable amount of time to get really comfortable with a new boat. Years of extensive experience, especially offshore, can shorten this time but without such experience, I think one should be patient in developing the skills and comfort level to head out. Jim and Susy Sink successfully circumnavigated in the Nordhavn 46 Salvation II. They took delivery in Dana Point and went to Alaska. They came south and ultimately up the east coast and completed a Great Loop all before crossing the Atlantic. You can get a pretty good sense of their learning process from reading Voyaging Under Power (3rd edition). Leonard Stern's description in his introduction to PUP of his and his wife's 5 year process of preparing themselves and their Marine Trader 44 for an Atlantic crossing is another good example of the level of thought, effort and training that I believe should go into a significant passage. In my own case, I plan to shake down my new boat hard in Florida before bringing it north up the east coast. I will do everything to learn about the boat and its equipment before I do so. For example, there is no reason why you can't download your electronics manuals from the web long before you take delivery and begin studying them. You can do the same with lots of other equipment or you can buy the manuals in advance. The more you learn in advance, the greater the base of knowledge that you will have when you step aboard and the faster and steeper your on board learning curve will be. You can also begin to operate your current boat more like a passagemaker. Do overnight trips to get familiar with night ops. Operate in fog and inclement weather so that you increase your level of skill and experience gradually without exceeding your abilities by more than is necessary to extend your capabilities. We operate 12 months of the year in New England in all sorts of weather with many nights under way and many many miles in dense fog. Nevertheless, with a lifetime of boating behind me, I have much to learn before I bring my boat north on an offshore passage. The boat will be fully equipped and I will have a hand picked crew with experience before I bring the boat north. At that, we will mostly be within 100 miles of shore at a time of year when the Atlantic is generally benign. I have another year and a half to get ready and am making as good use of the time as I can. The views expressed above are those of a very careful, cautious boater. After all, my title at work is "Vice President, Risk Management"! While there is no doubt that some people could head right out, why take chances when some time and effort will substantially reduce the risks involved. Four or 500 miles from shore in a new boat is no time to find out that your skills are lacking in one area or another. If you are not TOTALLY prepared to get yourself out of trouble, you will only jeopardize others as they seek to assist you. In the end, how soon to go is only a question that each of us must answer for ourselves but we must be ruthlessly honest in our assessment. Jim (Jim & Mim McCrea, mcc272@aol.com Nordic Tug 32-154 "North Star" Home Port Norwalk, CT)