Solartron 7081 NVM FAIL
The 74LS161 was the cuplrit, and the meter now starts up to display the NVM FAIL message. Substitution of the NVM from another meter gave INITIALISED, so the problem is the ER-3400.
I'm trying to work out whether the NVM FAIL message means just page one of the calibration constants is gone and page two was OK, or whether both pages are trashed?
I can't remember - does the serial port use a "straight through" connection - if so that would explain why it won't talk to me.
If both pages are trashed, what hope to recalibrate the zener?
Regards,
David Partridge
Bad news I think
CALIBRATE,DUMP
OK
Vdc calibration constants
0.00000000E+00
167.776999E-03
0.00000000E+00
1.67776999E+00
0.00000000E+00
16.7776999E+00
0.00000000E+00
167.776999E+00
0.00000000E+00
1.67776999E+03
Vac calibration constants
335.553999E-03
3.35553999E+00
33.5553999E+00
335.553999E+00
3.35553999E+03
kOhm calibration constants
0.00000000E+00
167.776999E-03
0.00000000E+00
1.67776999E+00
0.00000000E+00
16.7776999E+00
0.00000000E+00
167.776999E+00
0.00000000E+00
1.67776999E+03
Top Ohms range calibration constants
0.00000000E+00
12.0000000E+03
602.218329E-03
Ratio terminals calibration constant
16.7776999E+00
Zener current token value
255
CALIBRATE,?
E 7
CALIBRATE ?
OK
Calibrate = Fail 1
CALIBRATE,REFRESH
OK
Refresh fail nvm page 1 & 2 are faulty
D.
-----Original Message-----
From: volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of David C. Partridge
Sent: 25 April 2012 14:50
To: 'Discussion of precise voltage measurement'
Subject: [volt-nuts] Solartron 7081 NVM FAIL
The 74LS161 was the cuplrit, and the meter now starts up to display the NVM FAIL message. Substitution of the NVM from another meter gave INITIALISED, so the problem is the ER-3400.
I'm trying to work out whether the NVM FAIL message means just page one of the calibration constants is gone and page two was OK, or whether both pages are trashed?
I can't remember - does the serial port use a "straight through" connection - if so that would explain why it won't talk to me.
If both pages are trashed, what hope to recalibrate the zener?
Regards,
David Partridge
volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Hello, have you tried with monitor mode?
service manual pages 8.3 and up, you should
be able to get a raw value of constants
from nvm, maybe also more error details.
Strangely the manual states to not try to
recalibrate the zener and refer to solartron,
while the 7061 manual just explains how to do,
naturally the 7061 reference is simpler.
Fabio.
"David C. Partridge" david.partridge@perdrix.co.uk ha scritto:
Bad news I think
CALIBRATE,DUMP
OK
Vdc calibration constants
0.00000000E+00
167.776999E-03
0.00000000E+00
1.67776999E+00
0.00000000E+00
16.7776999E+00
0.00000000E+00
167.776999E+00
0.00000000E+00
1.67776999E+03
Vac calibration constants
335.553999E-03
3.35553999E+00
33.5553999E+00
335.553999E+00
3.35553999E+03
kOhm calibration constants
0.00000000E+00
167.776999E-03
0.00000000E+00
1.67776999E+00
0.00000000E+00
16.7776999E+00
0.00000000E+00
167.776999E+00
0.00000000E+00
1.67776999E+03
Top Ohms range calibration constants
0.00000000E+00
12.0000000E+03
602.218329E-03
Ratio terminals calibration constant
16.7776999E+00
Zener current token value
255
CALIBRATE,?
E 7
CALIBRATE ?
OK
Calibrate = Fail 1
CALIBRATE,REFRESH
OK
Refresh fail nvm page 1 & 2 are faulty
D.
-----Original Message-----
From: volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com]
On Behalf Of David C. Partridge
Sent: 25 April 2012 14:50
To: 'Discussion of precise voltage measurement'
Subject: [volt-nuts] Solartron 7081 NVM FAIL
The 74LS161 was the cuplrit, and the meter now starts up to display
the NVM FAIL message. Substitution of the NVM from another meter
gave INITIALISED, so the problem is the ER-3400.
I'm trying to work out whether the NVM FAIL message means just page
one of the calibration constants is gone and page two was OK, or
whether both pages are trashed?
I can't remember - does the serial port use a "straight through"
connection - if so that would explain why it won't talk to me.
If both pages are trashed, what hope to recalibrate the zener?
Regards,
David Partridge
volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
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To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
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Fabio,
Looking at the values from the CALIBRATE,DUMP command, I think you will find that all of them are default values which are loaded when the NVM isn't working at all.
I think that the final message which reads "Refresh fail nvm page 1 & 2 are faulty" tells it all really.
I will try looking in monitor mode tomorrow, but suspect that I will see binary zero or FF depending on HOW the EAROM has failed.
Do you have a scanner, it might be interesting to see how they propose doing the zener calibration for the 7061? I guess you need an environmental chamber, an accurate controllable current source and a logging voltmeter (at least I can provide one of the three, as my other 7081 still works OK).
The quote from Ametek for a FULL calibration including zener is rather eye watering, and I doubt they would do a zener only calibration (or if they would it would be equally expensive).
A question for the other 7081 owners: The zener diodes in this 7081 and a 7071 are 1N829 in an orange glass DO7 (I think) case. The zener in my original 7081 is quite different as it is in a hermetically sealed metal can that looks for all the world like it should hold a crystal. What is more, it is thermally connected to the AD590 temperature sensor while the other two the diode is about 3/8" away!
What are your zeners like?
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Fabio Eboli
Sent: 25 April 2012 17:25
To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Solartron 7081 NVM FAIL
Hello, have you tried with monitor mode?
service manual pages 8.3 and up, you should be able to get a raw value of constants from nvm, maybe also more error details.
Strangely the manual states to not try to recalibrate the zener and refer to solartron, while the 7061 manual just explains how to do, naturally the 7061 reference is simpler.
Fabio.
"David C. Partridge" david.partridge@perdrix.co.uk ha scritto:
Bad news I think
CALIBRATE,DUMP
OK
Vdc calibration constants
0.00000000E+00
167.776999E-03
0.00000000E+00
1.67776999E+00
0.00000000E+00
16.7776999E+00
0.00000000E+00
167.776999E+00
0.00000000E+00
1.67776999E+03
Vac calibration constants
335.553999E-03
3.35553999E+00
33.5553999E+00
335.553999E+00
3.35553999E+03
kOhm calibration constants
0.00000000E+00
167.776999E-03
0.00000000E+00
1.67776999E+00
0.00000000E+00
16.7776999E+00
0.00000000E+00
167.776999E+00
0.00000000E+00
1.67776999E+03
Top Ohms range calibration constants
0.00000000E+00
12.0000000E+03
602.218329E-03
Ratio terminals calibration constant
16.7776999E+00
Zener current token value
255
CALIBRATE,?
E 7
CALIBRATE ?
OK
Calibrate = Fail 1
CALIBRATE,REFRESH
OK
Refresh fail nvm page 1 & 2 are faulty
D.
-----Original Message-----
From: volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com]
On Behalf Of David C. Partridge
Sent: 25 April 2012 14:50
To: 'Discussion of precise voltage measurement'
Subject: [volt-nuts] Solartron 7081 NVM FAIL
The 74LS161 was the cuplrit, and the meter now starts up to display
the NVM FAIL message. Substitution of the NVM from another meter
gave INITIALISED, so the problem is the ER-3400.
I'm trying to work out whether the NVM FAIL message means just page
one of the calibration constants is gone and page two was OK, or
whether both pages are trashed?
I can't remember - does the serial port use a "straight through"
connection - if so that would explain why it won't talk to me.
If both pages are trashed, what hope to recalibrate the zener?
Regards,
David Partridge
volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
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and follow the instructions there.
I will try looking in monitor mode tomorrow, but suspect that I will
see binary zero or FF depending on HOW the EAROM has failed.
Yes, probably you are right.
Do you have a scanner, it might be interesting to see how they
propose doing the zener calibration for the 7061? I guess you need
an environmental chamber, an accurate controllable current source
and a logging voltmeter (at least I can provide one of the three, as
my other 7081 still works OK).
I had scans already done.
The instructions are very crude:
http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/8948/7061100.png
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5324/7061101.png
Here the schematic of the reference:
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/2945/7061235.png
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/8248/7061236.png
I imagine that the second order temperature compensation can
be problematic in the process, maybe this is why they
don't provide instructions to recalibrate the zener.
The quote from Ametek for a FULL calibration including zener is
rather eye watering, and I doubt they would do a zener only
calibration (or if they would it would be equally expensive).
Just a question, you can also answer privately, but what is the usual
price on the used market for a 7081, good or broken?
I've only seen one on ebay (other than the ones at >1k euro that
never sell), and I've never seen one here on the surplus resellers.
A question for the other 7081 owners: The zener diodes in this 7081
and a 7071 are 1N829 in an orange glass DO7 (I think) case. The
zener in my original 7081 is quite different as it is in a
hermetically sealed metal can that looks for all the world like it
should hold a crystal. What is more, it is thermally connected to
the AD590 temperature sensor while the other two the diode is about
3/8" away!
What are your zeners like?
That's interesting! Have you some photo? :)
Fabio.
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
I think the least one I saw on eBay in Europe sold for over GBP600
Regards,
David Partridge
-----Original Message-----
From: volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Fabio Eboli
Sent: 25 April 2012 20:02
To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Solartron 7081 NVM FAIL
Just a question, you can also answer privately, but what is the usual price on the used market for a 7081, good or broken?
Here are links to some photos of the two different references in the 7081s
From serial number 180 (my working one):
http://www.perdrix.co.uk/Solartron7081/Reference1a.jpg
http://www.perdrix.co.uk/Solartron7081/Reference1b.jpg
I can't identify what this zener actually is ...
and from serial number 301 (the one with the dead NVM):
http://www.perdrix.co.uk/Solartron7081/Reference2.jpg
This one is a 1N829
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Fabio Eboli
Sent: 25 April 2012 20:02
To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Solartron 7081 NVM FAIL
I will try looking in monitor mode tomorrow, but suspect that I will
see binary zero or FF depending on HOW the EAROM has failed.
Yes, probably you are right.
Do you have a scanner, it might be interesting to see how they propose
doing the zener calibration for the 7061? I guess you need an
environmental chamber, an accurate controllable current source and a
logging voltmeter (at least I can provide one of the three, as my
other 7081 still works OK).
I had scans already done.
The instructions are very crude:
http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/8948/7061100.png
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5324/7061101.png
Here the schematic of the reference:
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/2945/7061235.png
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/8248/7061236.png
I imagine that the second order temperature compensation can be problematic in the process, maybe this is why they don't provide instructions to recalibrate the zener.
The quote from Ametek for a FULL calibration including zener is rather
eye watering, and I doubt they would do a zener only calibration (or
if they would it would be equally expensive).
Just a question, you can also answer privately, but what is the usual price on the used market for a 7081, good or broken?
I've only seen one on ebay (other than the ones at >1k euro that never sell), and I've never seen one here on the surplus resellers.
A question for the other 7081 owners: The zener diodes in this 7081
and a 7071 are 1N829 in an orange glass DO7 (I think) case. The
zener in my original 7081 is quite different as it is in a
hermetically sealed metal can that looks for all the world like it
should hold a crystal. What is more, it is thermally connected to the
AD590 temperature sensor while the other two the diode is about 3/8"
away!
What are your zeners like?
That's interesting! Have you some photo? :)
Fabio.
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Dave,
Op 26-4-2012 12:11, David C. Partridge schreef:
I can't identify what this zener actually is ...
My best guess is that this is also a 1N829, which was sealed in
(probably) an oil-filled
container to increase the thermal mass.
- Rob.