Re: [PCW] DSe 12m Hybrid (Kite Assisted Motorsailer)

BE
brian eiland
Sat, Dec 15, 2007 9:23 PM

New Age Trawler/Motorsailer; Kite-assisted PowerYacht

I've come to a realization in this current age of escalating fuel prices,
that
there are two forms of pleasure yachts that are likely to survive the energy
crunch, and even possibly flourish...the motorsailer and the kite-assisted
power vessel.*

There's been much written about motorsailers, including my preference for the
multihull form of that gender...basically a more easily driven hull for both
the motor and sail power to act upon...greater range, more economy, better
performance.

Now we come to a new era, and again it's the 'fringe' sailing youngsters that
show us another way...kite sailing. You may have witnessed some of this
activity out on the bays and the lakes where the windsurfers use to play.
Check out this 'YouTube' clip,
"I Can Fly",http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkyOhyocw2E
There is power in that wind to drive our vessels, and methods to extract it
other than conventional vertical mast sailing rigs. Para-foil kites can
produce very considerable power, and can be controlled in flight as the
military discovered long ago. Now if we get those kites up into the better
winds aloft, we can tap into that more consistent energy than exist at the
sea
level.

Two companies that have been quite active in the promotion of driving ships
with kite power are:

  1. KiteShip: http://www.kiteship.com/
  2. SkySails: http://www.skysails.info/index.php?L=1

At present the Skysails group appears the more advanced of the two,
particularly when you consider their single-line tethering, and computer
flying of the kite. They have an automated stowage and deployment scheme as
well. These parafoil kites can even fly upwind to certain degrees. A review
of
the websites is quite interesting. But they are not the only game in town,
there is a lot of military interest in precision flying kites as well; ie,
Atair Aerospace, http://www.atairaerospace.com/

How might this kite business affect the yachting business? It goes back to
idea of a motorsailer, or phrased differently, a 'wind-assisted power
vessel'.
If we can optimize the economy of the power vessel, as the trawler concept
seeks to accomplish, and then add 'sail' assistance, we have a recipe for a
'future class of new-age trawlers' that can be quite economical to operate,
and have a great range. I believe this could be a very viable alternative
yachtform for our new fuel future.

Humphrey's yacht design is very big on this idea as well. Attached is their
tentative proposal for a 40M SkySail MotorYacht. They've termed it a
SkySail-supplimented MotorYacht, "The use of the word 'supplemental' is
chosen
carefully. While we expect this family of boats to be able to 'sail'
efficiently under SkySail, we foresee that fundamentally the boats have to be
very efficient and seakindly motoryachts, and in this respect the common
denominator for efficiently under both forms of motive power is low hull
resistance. Thus our work on this generic set has evolved towards slender
body
hulls that derive stability from wavepiercing outriggers...they are in effect
trimaran derivatives, which will have long rang capability under engine, not
to mention the 'free' miles under SkySail."

I have been following some of the 'slender ship' technology as it has
cross-over potential with multihull technologies. For a few references, visit
these websites, and see a few of the attachments I've provided:

  1. Worlds Largest Powered Trimaran : http://www.trimaran.dera.gov.uk/

  2. White Rabbit tri : http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/13292-post2.html
    http://yachts.monacoeye.com/yachtsby...erabbit01.html

  3. Very Slender Vessel, VSV : http://www.specialboatservice.co.uk/vsv.htm
    http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...s/ship/vsv.htm

  4. Cable & Wireless Trimaran :
    http://www.solarnavigator.net/histor...d_wireless.htm

  5. Catamaran Vessels : Lets not forget the catamaran hullform, they are in
    fact slender ships as well. As I wrote in a recent press release, "Our next
    design (coming soon) will be an adaptation of this new motorsailing catamaran
    design into a kite-assisted power cat. We will exclude the Dynarig sailing
    rig
    and substitute a SkySail kite rig. Next will be an entirely new hull design
    making use of the kite-sail concept"

Back to those design concept drawings by Humphrey's (attached PDF). I can
fully imagine a scaled-down version of this tri-hull design, in the 65-70
foot
range, with a wonderful rear 'swim' platform deck incorporating a
sportfishing
arrangement and/or a Scuba diving platform. Just inside could be a tender
stowage as shown; or rather a complete diving & fish tackle facility. The
tenders could then stow up on rear deck, or one forward, one aft.

The power would be a single main engine sized to develop the vessel's desired
top speed, and it could transmit this power by conventional shaft/prop
arrangement, or with a azimuthing Volvo IPS dual prop unit, or via a
retractable azimuthing Rim-Drive prop unit as I included on my latest dynarig
motorsailer design.

  1. Volvo IPS :
    http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/yacht-reviews-feature-stories/7467-world-de
    but-volvo-pentas-new-ips-750-850-a.html

  2. Rim Drive : http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/te...ropellers.html

Supplementing this single main engine would be a single DC diesel/electric
power unit to provide for:

  1. Ships electrical requirements
  2. Slow speed operation by electric (wing) motor belted to main prop shaft
  3. Maneuvering thrusters as required depending upon azimuth capabilities of
    main prop.

The entire ship would be powered by only two engines, basically sized to
provide:

  1. Full main diesel power, unimpeded by interceding diesel/electric
    conversion

  2. Slow speed operation and shipbs systems via the smaller diesel/electric
    unit

  3. 'Twin power' emergency backup as either engine can run all gear
    This configuration more ideally meets the latest thinking for the new
    diesel/electric DC technologies onboard smaller vessels. Alternatively, two
    identical diesel/electric plants might be sized such that in combination they
    would supply the max power required of the vessel, and half power for lesser
    times.

Only two engines and no conventional sailing rig should make this a more
affordable vessel, both in construction, in maintenance, and in operation.
However the SkySail kite arrangement will probably more than offset the
conventional sailing rig in cost. Possibly a less expensive alternative to
this 'brand name', with less computerization could be found (no integrated
weather/navigation features, etc). Light-weight construction would be
desirable but not necessary. Third world hull construction materials are a
possibility.

I'll call it a KiteSail Motorsailer for now.
....comments, suggestions

...for the original forum posting with website links and photos see:
New Age Trawler/Motorsailer; Kite assisted PowerYacht (tri or cat)
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?p=171356

Brian Eiland
<www.RunningTideYachts.com>


------ Original Message ------
Received: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 03:34:13 PM EST
From: PaulJChristman@aol.com
To: trikini2007@comcast.net, power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: [PCW] DSe 12m Hybrid

Len-
I noticed that you have owned a power trimaran. What is this boat, and why
aren't there more power triimarans? Is there an inherent problem with power

trimarans, compared to power catamarans?
It seems that a trimaran would be even more stable for pitch and yaw, and
would have more room for mechanicals, engines, fuel, etc. It would also be
able
to have a reduced draft. If trimaran design works for sailboats, why not
for power? Can anyone give some insight? Malcolm?
Thanks,
Paul

New Age Trawler/Motorsailer; Kite-assisted PowerYacht I've come to a realization in this current age of escalating fuel prices, that there are two forms of pleasure yachts that are likely to survive the energy crunch, and even possibly flourish...the motorsailer and the kite-assisted power vessel.* There's been much written about motorsailers, including my preference for the multihull form of that gender...basically a more easily driven hull for both the motor and sail power to act upon...greater range, more economy, better performance. Now we come to a new era, and again it's the 'fringe' sailing youngsters that show us another way...kite sailing. You may have witnessed some of this activity out on the bays and the lakes where the windsurfers use to play. Check out this 'YouTube' clip, "I Can Fly",http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkyOhyocw2E There is power in that wind to drive our vessels, and methods to extract it other than conventional vertical mast sailing rigs. Para-foil kites can produce very considerable power, and can be controlled in flight as the military discovered long ago. Now if we get those kites up into the better winds aloft, we can tap into that more consistent energy than exist at the sea level. Two companies that have been quite active in the promotion of driving ships with kite power are: 1) KiteShip: http://www.kiteship.com/ 2) SkySails: http://www.skysails.info/index.php?L=1 At present the Skysails group appears the more advanced of the two, particularly when you consider their single-line tethering, and computer flying of the kite. They have an automated stowage and deployment scheme as well. These parafoil kites can even fly upwind to certain degrees. A review of the websites is quite interesting. But they are not the only game in town, there is a lot of military interest in precision flying kites as well; ie, Atair Aerospace, http://www.atairaerospace.com/ How might this kite business affect the yachting business? It goes back to idea of a motorsailer, or phrased differently, a 'wind-assisted power vessel'. If we can optimize the economy of the power vessel, as the trawler concept seeks to accomplish, and then add 'sail' assistance, we have a recipe for a 'future class of new-age trawlers' that can be quite economical to operate, and have a great range. I believe this could be a very viable alternative yachtform for our new fuel future. Humphrey's yacht design is very big on this idea as well. Attached is their tentative proposal for a 40M SkySail MotorYacht. They've termed it a SkySail-supplimented MotorYacht, "The use of the word 'supplemental' is chosen carefully. While we expect this family of boats to be able to 'sail' efficiently under SkySail, we foresee that fundamentally the boats have to be very efficient and seakindly motoryachts, and in this respect the common denominator for efficiently under both forms of motive power is low hull resistance. Thus our work on this generic set has evolved towards slender body hulls that derive stability from wavepiercing outriggers...they are in effect trimaran derivatives, which will have long rang capability under engine, not to mention the 'free' miles under SkySail." I have been following some of the 'slender ship' technology as it has cross-over potential with multihull technologies. For a few references, visit these websites, and see a few of the attachments I've provided: 1) Worlds Largest Powered Trimaran : http://www.trimaran.dera.gov.uk/ 2) White Rabbit tri : http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/13292-post2.html http://yachts.monacoeye.com/yachtsby...erabbit01.html 3) Very Slender Vessel, VSV : http://www.specialboatservice.co.uk/vsv.htm http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...s/ship/vsv.htm 4) Cable & Wireless Trimaran : http://www.solarnavigator.net/histor...d_wireless.htm 5) Catamaran Vessels : Lets not forget the catamaran hullform, they are in fact slender ships as well. As I wrote in a recent press release, "Our next design (coming soon) will be an adaptation of this new motorsailing catamaran design into a kite-assisted power cat. We will exclude the Dynarig sailing rig and substitute a SkySail kite rig. Next will be an entirely new hull design making use of the kite-sail concept" Back to those design concept drawings by Humphrey's (attached PDF). I can fully imagine a scaled-down version of this tri-hull design, in the 65-70 foot range, with a wonderful rear 'swim' platform deck incorporating a sportfishing arrangement and/or a Scuba diving platform. Just inside could be a tender stowage as shown; or rather a complete diving & fish tackle facility. The tenders could then stow up on rear deck, or one forward, one aft. The power would be a single main engine sized to develop the vessel's desired top speed, and it could transmit this power by conventional shaft/prop arrangement, or with a azimuthing Volvo IPS dual prop unit, or via a retractable azimuthing Rim-Drive prop unit as I included on my latest dynarig motorsailer design. 1) Volvo IPS : http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/yacht-reviews-feature-stories/7467-world-de but-volvo-pentas-new-ips-750-850-a.html 2) Rim Drive : http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/te...ropellers.html Supplementing this single main engine would be a single DC diesel/electric power unit to provide for: 1) Ships electrical requirements 2) Slow speed operation by electric (wing) motor belted to main prop shaft 3) Maneuvering thrusters as required depending upon azimuth capabilities of main prop. The entire ship would be powered by only two engines, basically sized to provide: 1) Full main diesel power, unimpeded by interceding diesel/electric conversion 2) Slow speed operation and shipbs systems via the smaller diesel/electric unit 3) 'Twin power' emergency backup as either engine can run all gear This configuration more ideally meets the latest thinking for the new diesel/electric DC technologies onboard smaller vessels. Alternatively, two identical diesel/electric plants might be sized such that in combination they would supply the max power required of the vessel, and half power for lesser times. Only two engines and no conventional sailing rig should make this a more affordable vessel, both in construction, in maintenance, and in operation. However the SkySail kite arrangement will probably more than offset the conventional sailing rig in cost. Possibly a less expensive alternative to this 'brand name', with less computerization could be found (no integrated weather/navigation features, etc). Light-weight construction would be desirable but not necessary. Third world hull construction materials are a possibility. I'll call it a KiteSail Motorsailer for now. ....comments, suggestions ...for the original forum posting with website links and photos see: New Age Trawler/Motorsailer; Kite assisted PowerYacht (tri or cat) <http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?p=171356> Brian Eiland <www.RunningTideYachts.com> _____________________________________________________________ ------ Original Message ------ Received: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 03:34:13 PM EST From: PaulJChristman@aol.com To: trikini2007@comcast.net, power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com Subject: Re: [PCW] DSe 12m Hybrid Len- I noticed that you have owned a power trimaran. What is this boat, and why aren't there more power triimarans? Is there an inherent problem with power trimarans, compared to power catamarans? It seems that a trimaran would be even more stable for pitch and yaw, and would have more room for mechanicals, engines, fuel, etc. It would also be able to have a reduced draft. If trimaran design works for sailboats, why not for power? Can anyone give some insight? Malcolm? Thanks, Paul