Empathy List Archives

RJ

Ray Jones

Tue, Dec 22, 2020 5:50 PM

I represent a municipality that is looking to hire an engineering firm to fulfill the general duties of a municipal engineer until the position may be filled with a permanent employee.

The duties that would generally be involved include inspecting plats and site plans submitted by developers for building and zoning code compliance, assisting the public works authority with maintaining the sewer system, and other similar duties. The position would not entail primary work on public construction contracts. But, I expect that the municipal engineer may be asked to examine the work in a public construction contract, as a second set of eyes.

The concern of the municipality is whether it is required to open the temporary position to competitive bidding even though there is not a public construction contract directly involved. Or, alternatively, is there a provision in the Oklahoma Statutes, other than public bidding law, that would prevent the municipality from acquiring rates from prospective engineering firms? The municipality is motivated to keep the costs of the temporary engineering services under $25,000 before a full-time employee could be hired. But, it is concerned that it may be violating state law by asking engineering firms to give the municipality rates, so that the municipality may make its decision.

Any help would be appreciated.

Best Regards,

Ray

Robert Ray Jones, Jr.
jones@lytlesoule.com mailto:jones@lytlesoule.com

[cid:image002.png@01D6D858.9A41E620]
119 N. Robinson, Suite 1200
Oklahoma City, OK 73102
405-235-7471 | 405-232-3852 (fax)
www.lytlesoule.com

IMPORTANT NOTICE:
E-mail to clients of this firm presumptively contain privileged and confidential information. E-mail to non-clients are presumptively confidential and may be privileged. The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of this information, directly or indirectly, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers in which it resides.

I represent a municipality that is looking to hire an engineering firm to fulfill the general duties of a municipal engineer until the position may be filled with a permanent employee. The duties that would generally be involved include inspecting plats and site plans submitted by developers for building and zoning code compliance, assisting the public works authority with maintaining the sewer system, and other similar duties. The position would not entail primary work on public construction contracts. But, I expect that the municipal engineer may be asked to examine the work in a public construction contract, as a second set of eyes. The concern of the municipality is whether it is required to open the temporary position to competitive bidding even though there is not a public construction contract directly involved. Or, alternatively, is there a provision in the Oklahoma Statutes, other than public bidding law, that would prevent the municipality from acquiring rates from prospective engineering firms? The municipality is motivated to keep the costs of the temporary engineering services under $25,000 before a full-time employee could be hired. But, it is concerned that it may be violating state law by asking engineering firms to give the municipality rates, so that the municipality may make its decision. Any help would be appreciated. Best Regards, Ray Robert Ray Jones, Jr. jones@lytlesoule.com<mailto:jones@lytlesoule.com> [cid:image002.png@01D6D858.9A41E620] 119 N. Robinson, Suite 1200 Oklahoma City, OK 73102 405-235-7471 | 405-232-3852 (fax) www.lytlesoule.com IMPORTANT NOTICE: E-mail to clients of this firm presumptively contain privileged and confidential information. E-mail to non-clients are presumptively confidential and may be privileged. The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of this information, directly or indirectly, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers in which it resides.

TN

Teresa Nowlin

Tue, Dec 22, 2020 6:02 PM

Engineering is considered a "professional service" and thus, does not fall under the Public Competitive Bidding Act or most other competitive bidding laws (e.g. public trust statutes). Double check your city's ordinances, but generally engineering contracts do not have to be competitively bid. Often, engineers are selected using a "Request for Qualifications."

From: Oama oama-bounces@lists.imla.org On Behalf Of Ray Jones
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2020 11:50 AM
To: oama@lists.imla.org
Subject: [Oama] Engineering question

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
I represent a municipality that is looking to hire an engineering firm to fulfill the general duties of a municipal engineer until the position may be filled with a permanent employee.

The duties that would generally be involved include inspecting plats and site plans submitted by developers for building and zoning code compliance, assisting the public works authority with maintaining the sewer system, and other similar duties. The position would not entail primary work on public construction contracts. But, I expect that the municipal engineer may be asked to examine the work in a public construction contract, as a second set of eyes.

The concern of the municipality is whether it is required to open the temporary position to competitive bidding even though there is not a public construction contract directly involved. Or, alternatively, is there a provision in the Oklahoma Statutes, other than public bidding law, that would prevent the municipality from acquiring rates from prospective engineering firms? The municipality is motivated to keep the costs of the temporary engineering services under $25,000 before a full-time employee could be hired. But, it is concerned that it may be violating state law by asking engineering firms to give the municipality rates, so that the municipality may make its decision.

Any help would be appreciated.

Best Regards,

Ray

Robert Ray Jones, Jr.
jones@lytlesoule.com mailto:jones@lytlesoule.com

[cid:image001.png@01D6D85A.5F596A40]
119 N. Robinson, Suite 1200
Oklahoma City, OK 73102
405-235-7471 | 405-232-3852 (fax)
www.lytlesoule.com http://www.lytlesoule.com

IMPORTANT NOTICE:
E-mail to clients of this firm presumptively contain privileged and confidential information. E-mail to non-clients are presumptively confidential and may be privileged. The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of this information, directly or indirectly, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers in which it resides.

Engineering is considered a "professional service" and thus, does not fall under the Public Competitive Bidding Act or most other competitive bidding laws (e.g. public trust statutes). Double check your city's ordinances, but generally engineering contracts do not have to be competitively bid. Often, engineers are selected using a "Request for Qualifications." From: Oama <oama-bounces@lists.imla.org> On Behalf Of Ray Jones Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2020 11:50 AM To: oama@lists.imla.org Subject: [Oama] Engineering question [EXTERNAL EMAIL] DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. I represent a municipality that is looking to hire an engineering firm to fulfill the general duties of a municipal engineer until the position may be filled with a permanent employee. The duties that would generally be involved include inspecting plats and site plans submitted by developers for building and zoning code compliance, assisting the public works authority with maintaining the sewer system, and other similar duties. The position would not entail primary work on public construction contracts. But, I expect that the municipal engineer may be asked to examine the work in a public construction contract, as a second set of eyes. The concern of the municipality is whether it is required to open the temporary position to competitive bidding even though there is not a public construction contract directly involved. Or, alternatively, is there a provision in the Oklahoma Statutes, other than public bidding law, that would prevent the municipality from acquiring rates from prospective engineering firms? The municipality is motivated to keep the costs of the temporary engineering services under $25,000 before a full-time employee could be hired. But, it is concerned that it may be violating state law by asking engineering firms to give the municipality rates, so that the municipality may make its decision. Any help would be appreciated. Best Regards, Ray Robert Ray Jones, Jr. jones@lytlesoule.com<mailto:jones@lytlesoule.com> [cid:image001.png@01D6D85A.5F596A40] 119 N. Robinson, Suite 1200 Oklahoma City, OK 73102 405-235-7471 | 405-232-3852 (fax) www.lytlesoule.com<http://www.lytlesoule.com> IMPORTANT NOTICE: E-mail to clients of this firm presumptively contain privileged and confidential information. E-mail to non-clients are presumptively confidential and may be privileged. The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of this information, directly or indirectly, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers in which it resides.

DD

david davis

Tue, Dec 22, 2020 6:13 PM

I agree with Teresa. I would advertise for request for qualifications. Bethany has done this numerous times and there should be samples on file with Linda Hlincky.
Once you select based upon qualifications then a not to exceed price professional services agreement could be negotiated.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This transmission is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sections 2510-2521 and intended to be delivered only to the named addressee(s) This e-mail message is intended only for the personal use of the recipient(s) named above. This message is or may be an attorney-client communication and as such privileged and confidential. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, copy or distribute this message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the original message.

s/ David A. Davis
LAW OFFICE OF DAVID A. DAVIS
4312 N. Classen Blvd.
OKLAHOMA CITY, OK 73118
405 840-6353
405 557-0777 (FAX)
ddavislaw@live.com mailto:ddavislaw@live.com

From: Oama oama-bounces@lists.imla.org on behalf of Teresa Nowlin tnowlin@jenksok.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2020 12:02 PM
To: Ray Jones jones@lytlesoule.com; oama@lists.imla.org oama@lists.imla.org
Subject: Re: [Oama] Engineering question

Engineering is considered a “professional service” and thus, does not fall under the Public Competitive Bidding Act or most other competitive bidding laws (e.g. public trust statutes). Double check your city’s ordinances, but generally engineering contracts do not have to be competitively bid. Often, engineers are selected using a “Request for Qualifications.”

From: Oama oama-bounces@lists.imla.org On Behalf Of Ray Jones
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2020 11:50 AM
To: oama@lists.imla.org
Subject: [Oama] Engineering question

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.

I represent a municipality that is looking to hire an engineering firm to fulfill the general duties of a municipal engineer until the position may be filled with a permanent employee.

The duties that would generally be involved include inspecting plats and site plans submitted by developers for building and zoning code compliance, assisting the public works authority with maintaining the sewer system, and other similar duties. The position would not entail primary work on public construction contracts. But, I expect that the municipal engineer may be asked to examine the work in a public construction contract, as a second set of eyes.

The concern of the municipality is whether it is required to open the temporary position to competitive bidding even though there is not a public construction contract directly involved. Or, alternatively, is there a provision in the Oklahoma Statutes, other than public bidding law, that would prevent the municipality from acquiring rates from prospective engineering firms? The municipality is motivated to keep the costs of the temporary engineering services under $25,000 before a full-time employee could be hired. But, it is concerned that it may be violating state law by asking engineering firms to give the municipality rates, so that the municipality may make its decision.

Any help would be appreciated.

Best Regards,

Ray

Robert Ray Jones, Jr.

jones@lytlesoule.com mailto:jones@lytlesoule.com

[cid:image001.png@01D6D85A.5F596A40]

119 N. Robinson, Suite 1200

Oklahoma City, OK 73102

405-235-7471 | 405-232-3852 (fax)

www.lytlesoule.com https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lytlesoule.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7Ca78c1fca041441651f5a08d8a6a3ea66%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637442570224551732%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ROmhY3Yyc4OiNRfJYh1LszbkzFvx4oQCkxFTeZPID80%3D&reserved=0

IMPORTANT NOTICE:

E-mail to clients of this firm presumptively contain privileged and confidential information. E-mail to non-clients are presumptively confidential and may be privileged. The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of this information, directly or indirectly, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers in which it resides.

I agree with Teresa. I would advertise for request for qualifications. Bethany has done this numerous times and there should be samples on file with Linda Hlincky. Once you select based upon qualifications then a not to exceed price professional services agreement could be negotiated. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This transmission is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sections 2510-2521 and intended to be delivered only to the named addressee(s) This e-mail message is intended only for the personal use of the recipient(s) named above. This message is or may be an attorney-client communication and as such privileged and confidential. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, copy or distribute this message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the original message. s/ David A. Davis LAW OFFICE OF DAVID A. DAVIS 4312 N. Classen Blvd. OKLAHOMA CITY, OK 73118 405 840-6353 405 557-0777 (FAX) ddavislaw@live.com<mailto:ddavislaw@live.com> ________________________________ From: Oama <oama-bounces@lists.imla.org> on behalf of Teresa Nowlin <tnowlin@jenksok.org> Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2020 12:02 PM To: Ray Jones <jones@lytlesoule.com>; oama@lists.imla.org <oama@lists.imla.org> Subject: Re: [Oama] Engineering question Engineering is considered a “professional service” and thus, does not fall under the Public Competitive Bidding Act or most other competitive bidding laws (e.g. public trust statutes). Double check your city’s ordinances, but generally engineering contracts do not have to be competitively bid. Often, engineers are selected using a “Request for Qualifications.” From: Oama <oama-bounces@lists.imla.org> On Behalf Of Ray Jones Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2020 11:50 AM To: oama@lists.imla.org Subject: [Oama] Engineering question [EXTERNAL EMAIL] DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. I represent a municipality that is looking to hire an engineering firm to fulfill the general duties of a municipal engineer until the position may be filled with a permanent employee. The duties that would generally be involved include inspecting plats and site plans submitted by developers for building and zoning code compliance, assisting the public works authority with maintaining the sewer system, and other similar duties. The position would not entail primary work on public construction contracts. But, I expect that the municipal engineer may be asked to examine the work in a public construction contract, as a second set of eyes. The concern of the municipality is whether it is required to open the temporary position to competitive bidding even though there is not a public construction contract directly involved. Or, alternatively, is there a provision in the Oklahoma Statutes, other than public bidding law, that would prevent the municipality from acquiring rates from prospective engineering firms? The municipality is motivated to keep the costs of the temporary engineering services under $25,000 before a full-time employee could be hired. But, it is concerned that it may be violating state law by asking engineering firms to give the municipality rates, so that the municipality may make its decision. Any help would be appreciated. Best Regards, Ray Robert Ray Jones, Jr. jones@lytlesoule.com<mailto:jones@lytlesoule.com> [cid:image001.png@01D6D85A.5F596A40] 119 N. Robinson, Suite 1200 Oklahoma City, OK 73102 405-235-7471 | 405-232-3852 (fax) www.lytlesoule.com<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lytlesoule.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7Ca78c1fca041441651f5a08d8a6a3ea66%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637442570224551732%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ROmhY3Yyc4OiNRfJYh1LszbkzFvx4oQCkxFTeZPID80%3D&reserved=0> IMPORTANT NOTICE: E-mail to clients of this firm presumptively contain privileged and confidential information. E-mail to non-clients are presumptively confidential and may be privileged. The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of this information, directly or indirectly, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers in which it resides.