How long does a vessel have to be to qualify as a motor vessel i.e. m/v?
Gary ritzman. . m/v Dharma. Albin 40. Mercer island. WA
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Well around here (Lake Superior) motor vessels are up to a 1,000 feet long,
carry up to 70,000 tons of cargo, are typically black or box car red, and
have foghorns that will blow you out of the water. I don't think a 40 foot
recreational vessel fits that paradigm.
David Sorenson
Duluth, MN
I'm not certain about the required length, but I know that when Jill wimps
out and puts our outboard engine on the dinghy, it is considered a vessel
under power. I'd think that qualifies it as a 'motor vessel'?
Rudy & Jill Sechez
*BRINEY BUG-a 34' Sail-Assisted Trawler *
850-832-7748
trawlertrainingabc.com http://trawlertrainingabc.com
Daytona FL
On 12/3/19 4:39 PM, Gary Ritzman via Trawlers-and-Trawlering wrote:
How long does a vessel have to be to qualify as a motor vessel i.e. m/v?
This is another one of those topics like "which anchor is best" or
"single vs. twins." That said, I did a great deal of research on this
very subject before we purchased and named our boat. I did not keep my
notes or references from this once we made our decision, but here is
what I remember of the gist of it:
There are no regulations in the US on this subject. While I found
exactly one legal definition of "Motor Vessel" in the federal code (I no
longer remember exactly where or why), it was not exclusive and had
nothing to do with pleasure craft. So here, on domestic voyages, you are
legally free to use whatever you like.
That said, I did learn that, internationally, there are many countries
where "Motor Vessel" refers strictly to commercial craft and/or vessels
over a certain tonnage. What I discovered when delving into that subject
was that identifying yourself on the radio as a "Motor Vessel" to port
authorities there will cause problems, and that vessels around you will
be confused. The normally accepted term for motor-driven pleasure craft
(with accommodations) of any size below "ship" is "Motor Yacht." When
you hear the big boys, yachts in the 100'-200' range, making radio
calls, this is how they identify. Perhaps something like the 414',
10,000-ton "Octopus" would use, instead, Motor Vessel, because at that
size it is subject to all of the same requirements as commercial vessels
under IMO rules.
We ruminated for a long time on whether "Yacht" (of any stripe) sounded
too pretentious for us; we think of Vector merely as a "boat" (although,
clearly, many we encounter think otherwise). But in the end we decided
that clarity and precision on the radio trumped our squeamishness about
it, and we say "Motor Yacht" on the radio and write "m/y" on forms. Very
rarely, when I actually do want to obfuscate our status as a pleasure
craft ("Vector" is sufficiently obscure to be commercial, and several
commercial vessels can be found using this name), I will say Motor
Vessel or write M/V. (As it happens, we are in a commercial shipyard
right now where we are required to wear hard hats, and I put "M/V
Vector" on them because it makes us stand out less.)
Finally, even here in the US, there are lots of commercial captains,
especially towboat drivers, who will think you are being pretentious if
you use Motor Vessel. To them, an M/V is something over a hundred feet
or so. Personally, I tend to agree, and I chuckle when I hear, say, a 36
footer identify itself as "Motor Vessel So-And-So," and more so if it
has some cutesy name. In much the same way that I shake my head when I
see someone introduce themselves or sign their name as "Captain" when
they are not actually employed in that capacity anywhere.
As a side note to all of this, I often see pleasure craft come up on my
AIS as "m/v Name," "s/v Name," or "s/y Name" (seldom do I see m/y). USCG
and international guidelines for AIS specify that only the name, and not
any sort of prefix that is not part of the official name, should be sent
by the AIS transponder.
-Sean
m/y Vector
on the hard in Bayou La Batre, AL
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
According to the US Legal website at
https://definitions.uslegal.com/m/motor-vessel/:
Motor Vessel Law and Legal Definition
According to 36 CFR 13.1102 [Title 36-Parks, Forests, and Public
Property -Chapter 1-National Park Service, Department of the
Interior-Part 13-National Park System Units in Alaska Subpart N-Special
Regulations-Glacier Bay National Park and Preserve Administrative
Provisions] motor vessel means “any vessel, other than a seaplane,
propelled or capable of being propelled by machinery (including steam),
whether or not such machinery is the principal source of power, except a
skiff or tender under tow or carried on board another vessel.”
I'll stick with MV as Sanderling is unquestionably a "vessel" and is
definitely "motor driven" (not sail, oar or paddle). "Yacht" is way too
pretentious for my simple tastes! If Sanderling were a "yacht" I'd feel
like I was degrading the definition!
<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler for sale Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://mvsanderling.net/Blog
Web: http://cruising.mvsanderling.net/
Bob: No disputing right to use owner’s right to nomenclature. I do note that the definition you site appears to apply soley to Federal regulations applicable to Glacier Bay National Park and Preserve. I was not able to find anything that expands that definition more broadly.
Personally, I’d have no hesitation referring to your fine ship as the m/y Sanderling.
36 CFR Subpart N - Special Regulations - Glacier Bay National Park and Preserve
CFR
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/36/part-13/subpart-N#tab_default_1
prev https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/36/part-13/subpart-M | next https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/36/part-13/subpart-O
Administrative Provisions (§§ 13.1102 - 13.1109)
§ 13.1102 Definitions. https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/36/13.1102
§ 13.1102 Definitions.
As used in this subpart:
Bartlett Cove Developed Area means all NPS-administered lands and waters within 1 mile of any Bartlett Cove facility applewebdata://B3F54F53-0919-4933-9152-683BC9EF2376. A map showing the Bartlett Cove Developed Area applewebdata://B3F54F53-0919-4933-9152-683BC9EF2376 is available at the park visitor center.
…
Motor vessel means any vessel applewebdata://B3F54F53-0919-4933-9152-683BC9EF2376, other than a seaplane, propelled or capable of being propelled by machinery (including steam), whether or not such machinery is the principal source of power, except a skiff or tender under tow or carried on board another vessel applewebdata://B3F54F53-0919-4933-9152-683BC9EF2376.
On Dec 4, 2019, at 12:53 PM, Bob McLeran via Trawlers-and-Trawlering trawlers@lists.trawlering.com wrote:
According to the US Legal website at https://definitions.uslegal.com/m/motor-vessel/:
Motor Vessel Law and Legal Definition
According to 36 CFR 13.1102 [Title 36-Parks, Forests, and Public Property -Chapter 1-National Park Service, Department of the Interior-Part 13-National Park System Units in Alaska Subpart N-Special Regulations-Glacier Bay National Park and Preserve Administrative Provisions] motor vessel means “any vessel, other than a seaplane, propelled or capable of being propelled by machinery (including steam), whether or not such machinery is the principal source of power, except a skiff or tender under tow or carried on board another vessel.”
I'll stick with MV as Sanderling is unquestionably a "vessel" and is definitely "motor driven" (not sail, oar or paddle). "Yacht" is way too pretentious for my simple tastes! If Sanderling were a "yacht" I'd feel like I was degrading the definition!
<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler for sale Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://mvsanderling.net/Blog
Web: http://cruising.mvsanderling.net/
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