More progress has been made toward a plug and play Programmable Josephson Voltage Standard then I was aware of in some previous posts. Shortly NIST will begin selling Programmable Josephson Voltage Standard AC - DC standards that will have software to automatically calibrate (With-in the Arrays limit) products like the Agilent 3458A. This will include features like detailed characterizing the A-D converter linearity. The price will be about 300K. So we are a great deal closer then I thought to Programmable Josephson Voltage Standard for every Volt-Nut. Thomas Knox

Can we get a group buy? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Knox" <actast@hotmail.com> To: <volt-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Friday, February 14, 2014 12:50 PM Subject: [volt-nuts] JJA progress report > More progress has been made toward a plug and play Programmable Josephson > Voltage Standard then I was aware of in some previous posts. Shortly NIST > will begin selling Programmable Josephson Voltage Standard AC - DC > standards that will have software to automatically calibrate (With-in the > Arrays limit) products like the Agilent 3458A. This will include features > like detailed characterizing the A-D converter linearity. The price will > be about 300K. So we are a great deal closer then I thought to > Programmable Josephson Voltage Standard for every Volt-Nut. > > Thomas Knox > > > > _______________________________________________ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

We'll all probably want a spare unit also. On Friday, February 14, 2014 11:02 AM, Tom Miller <tmiller11147@verizon.net> wrote: Can we get a group buy? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Knox" <actast@hotmail.com> To: <volt-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Friday, February 14, 2014 12:50 PM Subject: [volt-nuts] JJA progress report > More progress has been made toward a plug and play Programmable Josephson > Voltage Standard then I was aware of in some previous posts. Shortly NIST > will begin selling Programmable Josephson Voltage Standard AC - DC > standards that will have software to automatically calibrate (With-in the > Arrays limit) products like the Agilent 3458A. This will include features > like detailed characterizing the A-D converter linearity.  The price will > be about 300K. So we are a great deal closer then I thought to > Programmable Josephson Voltage Standard for every Volt-Nut. > > Thomas Knox > > > > _______________________________________________ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.

In message <1392413149.25851.YahooMailNeo@web142405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, Randy Evans writes: >We'll all probably want a spare unit also. Two, how can you know which one fails, if you only have two ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

On 15 Feb 2014 09:57, "Poul-Henning Kamp" <phk@phk.freebsd.dk> wrote: > > In message <1392413149.25851.YahooMailNeo@web142405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, Randy > Evans writes: > > >We'll all probably want a spare unit also. > > Two, how can you know which one fails, if you only have two ? How inadequate. In practice you need a pool of units large enough to statistically prove the reference value is close enough to the measured value with p < 0.01. Oh, hi list. My first post here. D.

Clearly need three (or some higher odd number) so they can vote... Gordon On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 2:51 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@phk.freebsd.dk>wrote: > In message <1392413149.25851.YahooMailNeo@web142405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, > Randy > Evans writes: > > >We'll all probably want a spare unit also. > > Two, how can you know which one fails, if you only have two ? > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. > _______________________________________________ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

These devices are primary standards; you don't need three; you probably don't even need two. If certain conditions are met, conditions you can check/verify, they will accurately generate the desired voltages. What you will probably want are at least three good zener type voltage standards and a constant temperature environment. The three will serve as a day to day standard and reality check on the JJA. And you need to really learn how to operate the JJA standard, so you can detect and correct any problems. Joe Hobart Flagstaff, Arizona On 2/15/2014 1:17 PM, Gordon DeWitte wrote: > Clearly need three (or some higher odd number) so they can vote... > > Gordon > > > On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 2:51 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@phk.freebsd.dk>wrote: > >> In message <1392413149.25851.YahooMailNeo@web142405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, >> Randy >> Evans writes: >> >>> We'll all probably want a spare unit also. >> >> Two, how can you know which one fails, if you only have two ? >> >> -- >> Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 >> phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 >> FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe >> Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. >> _______________________________________________ >

How do you know the primary standard is not off? That is, how do you know it's still "primary"? Maybe a gamma ray burst from a supernova damaged some of the machinery inside, or a colony of crazy ants crawled in and died inside. D. On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Joe Hobart <nova@npgcable.com> wrote: > > These devices are primary standards; you don't need three; you probably don't > even need two. If certain conditions are met, conditions you can check/verify, > they will accurately generate the desired voltages. > > What you will probably want are at least three good zener type voltage standards > and a constant temperature environment. The three will serve as a day to day > standard and reality check on the JJA. And you need to really learn how to > operate the JJA standard, so you can detect and correct any problems. > > Joe Hobart > Flagstaff, Arizona > > > On 2/15/2014 1:17 PM, Gordon DeWitte wrote: >> Clearly need three (or some higher odd number) so they can vote... >> >> Gordon >> >> >> On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 2:51 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@phk.freebsd.dk>wrote: >> >>> In message <1392413149.25851.YahooMailNeo@web142405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, >>> Randy >>> Evans writes: >>> >>>> We'll all probably want a spare unit also. >>> >>> Two, how can you know which one fails, if you only have two ? >>> >>> -- >>> Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 >>> phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 >>> FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe >>> Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. >>> _______________________________________________ >> > _______________________________________________ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

If Earth is subjected to a GRB strong enough to damage ground based electronics, we are all going to have much more urgent problems than wondering if a JVS is operating properly. Same for an EMP. Lightning, however, might pose a more localized and serious threat. Part of your training as an expert operator will include techniques to dissuade various critters from considering the JVS for their burial ceremonies. Carrying your best zener reference to the nearest facility with another JVS would be less expensive than buying and operating a second or third system. Joe On 2/16/2014 12:58 AM, cheater00 . wrote: > How do you know the primary standard is not off? That is, how do you > know it's still "primary"? Maybe a gamma ray burst from a supernova > damaged some of the machinery inside, or a colony of crazy ants > crawled in and died inside. > > D. > > On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Joe Hobart <nova@npgcable.com> wrote: >> >> These devices are primary standards; you don't need three; you probably don't >> even need two. If certain conditions are met, conditions you can check/verify, >> they will accurately generate the desired voltages. >> >> What you will probably want are at least three good zener type voltage standards >> and a constant temperature environment. The three will serve as a day to day >> standard and reality check on the JJA. And you need to really learn how to >> operate the JJA standard, so you can detect and correct any problems. >> >> Joe Hobart >> Flagstaff, Arizona >> >> >> On 2/15/2014 1:17 PM, Gordon DeWitte wrote: >>> Clearly need three (or some higher odd number) so they can vote... >>> >>> Gordon >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 2:51 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@phk.freebsd.dk>wrote: >>> >>>> In message <1392413149.25851.YahooMailNeo@web142405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, >>>> Randy >>>> Evans writes: >>>> >>>>> We'll all probably want a spare unit also. >>>> >>>> Two, how can you know which one fails, if you only have two ? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 >>>> phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 >>>> FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe >>>> Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>

The physics of a properly run JJA will always produce the same result so you do not need additional units for comparison. That is the point of a world wide quantum voltage standard defined as K J-90 = 483 597.9 GHz/V . Just has the Hyperfine Transition of Cesium at about 9.192631770GHz is used to define the second. What is neat about the work NIST has done recently is that it has automated the System for ease of use and reduced the price to the point that it should see much wider use in day to day metrology. Having your Agilent 3458A calibrated on a JJA may not yield much difference over a Fluke 5730A cal, but once the meter has been run a few years characterizing the A to D converter and 10VAC range would only need to be done once and could substantially improve performance. I personally think that the face of calibration will change in coming years, rather then simple time based cal periods, instruments will contain complex environmental sensor packages that will constantly monitor the instruments environment . So calibration will be based more on the instruments exposure to extreme conditions then simple time. I bet the act of shipping has more effect on cal then years sitting in a lab. So if for example a 3458A was put in an environmental chamber on a shaker table I am sure we find that up to a certain point enviromental conditions would have little effect on cal but at some point would have a major effect. Once documented the cals would be based more on environmental exposure. In addition I am sure some environmental effects on cal are repeatable and could be documented so if monitored they could be compensated for extending time between cals. So in the future you would see your instrument display "environment conditions exceeded" "cal require", with perhaps even a display of currently instrument uncertainty. This could change the face of calibration and become a multi-billion dollar industry. Thomas Knox > Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 07:06:18 -0700 > From: nova@npgcable.com > To: volt-nuts@febo.com > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] JJA progress report > > > If Earth is subjected to a GRB strong enough to damage ground based electronics, > we are all going to have much more urgent problems than wondering if a JVS is > operating properly. Same for an EMP. Lightning, however, might pose a more > localized and serious threat. > > Part of your training as an expert operator will include techniques to dissuade > various critters from considering the JVS for their burial ceremonies. > > Carrying your best zener reference to the nearest facility with another JVS > would be less expensive than buying and operating a second or third system. > > Joe > > > On 2/16/2014 12:58 AM, cheater00 . wrote: > > How do you know the primary standard is not off? That is, how do you > > know it's still "primary"? Maybe a gamma ray burst from a supernova > > damaged some of the machinery inside, or a colony of crazy ants > > crawled in and died inside. > > > > D. > > > > On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Joe Hobart <nova@npgcable.com> wrote: > >> > >> These devices are primary standards; you don't need three; you probably don't > >> even need two. If certain conditions are met, conditions you can check/verify, > >> they will accurately generate the desired voltages. > >> > >> What you will probably want are at least three good zener type voltage standards > >> and a constant temperature environment. The three will serve as a day to day > >> standard and reality check on the JJA. And you need to really learn how to > >> operate the JJA standard, so you can detect and correct any problems. > >> > >> Joe Hobart > >> Flagstaff, Arizona > >> > >> > >> On 2/15/2014 1:17 PM, Gordon DeWitte wrote: > >>> Clearly need three (or some higher odd number) so they can vote... > >>> > >>> Gordon > >>> > >>> > >>> On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 2:51 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@phk.freebsd.dk>wrote: > >>> > >>>> In message <1392413149.25851.YahooMailNeo@web142405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, > >>>> Randy > >>>> Evans writes: > >>>> > >>>>> We'll all probably want a spare unit also. > >>>> > >>>> Two, how can you know which one fails, if you only have two ? > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > >>>> phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > >>>> FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe > >>>> Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>> > _______________________________________________ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there.