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OT- RMC sentence and magnetic variation/compensation in GPS module

GM
Giuseppe Marullo
Sat, Feb 5, 2011 2:32 PM

Hi all,
I am unable to understand how to get this field from a RMC sentence, on
the GPS I am using (LS20031) the field is empy so I am wondering if this
is just a problem of implementation or what.
AFAIK, the data is highly  variable (location and time) so how is the
GPS module  able to provide it? Is it something provided by satellites?
Will the module compute it from the path comparing the bearing with an
onboard compass?

Could some good soul shed some light on the matter?

Thanks in advance.

Giuseppe Marullo

Hi all, I am unable to understand how to get this field from a RMC sentence, on the GPS I am using (LS20031) the field is empy so I am wondering if this is just a problem of implementation or what. AFAIK, the data is highly variable (location and time) so how is the GPS module able to provide it? Is it something provided by satellites? Will the module compute it from the path comparing the bearing with an onboard compass? Could some good soul shed some light on the matter? Thanks in advance. Giuseppe Marullo
CA
Chris Albertson
Sat, Feb 5, 2011 5:47 PM

The GPS receiver can only compute the direction to true north if the
antenna is on a moving vehicle.  The GPS looks backward to where you
were in the last few seconds and computers the direction of travel.
On a fixed antenna this can't work.

But even at best the GPS' idea of "north" is poor.  I had a sailboat
and what you'd do there is install a NMEA fluxgate compass. Many of
these contained gyros too.  Then you program your other instruments to
ignore the GPS NMEA heading and use the better compass data

But "magnetic variation" can be can be gotten from a map.  It is a
very slowly changing function of your location.  The GPS could have
the data in it's firmware.  Paper charts will always have the
variation in degrees and degrees per year printed on them.  I've also
seem some older GPS where the use must enter the variation in  a setup
menu.  Compensation would always need to be entered by hand.  You get
it from measuring your specific compass after turning onn all the
normal electronics.

My bet is that this unit does not have a variation map in its firmware
and you have to set it my hand or maybe the unit will pass it through
it it has a NMEA input  Some GPS's can listen on an input port and
will pass this data through if they either can't generate it or if the
user has programmed the GPS to pass the external data.

On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 6:32 AM, Giuseppe Marullo giuseppe@marullo.it wrote:

Hi all,
I am unable to understand how to get this field from a RMC sentence, on the
GPS I am using (LS20031) the field is empy so I am wondering if this is just
a problem of implementation or what.
AFAIK, the data is highly  variable (location and time) so how is the GPS
module  able to provide it? Is it something provided by satellites? Will the
module compute it from the path comparing the bearing with an onboard
compass?

Could some good soul shed some light on the matter?

Thanks in advance.

Giuseppe Marullo


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

--

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

The GPS receiver can only compute the direction to true north if the antenna is on a moving vehicle. The GPS looks backward to where you were in the last few seconds and computers the direction of travel. On a fixed antenna this can't work. But even at best the GPS' idea of "north" is poor. I had a sailboat and what you'd do there is install a NMEA fluxgate compass. Many of these contained gyros too. Then you program your other instruments to ignore the GPS NMEA heading and use the better compass data But "magnetic variation" can be can be gotten from a map. It is a very slowly changing function of your location. The GPS could have the data in it's firmware. Paper charts will always have the variation in degrees and degrees per year printed on them. I've also seem some older GPS where the use must enter the variation in a setup menu. Compensation would always need to be entered by hand. You get it from measuring your specific compass after turning onn all the normal electronics. My bet is that this unit does not have a variation map in its firmware and you have to set it my hand or maybe the unit will pass it through it it has a NMEA input Some GPS's can listen on an input port and will pass this data through if they either can't generate it or if the user has programmed the GPS to pass the external data. On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 6:32 AM, Giuseppe Marullo <giuseppe@marullo.it> wrote: > Hi all, > I am unable to understand how to get this field from a RMC sentence, on the > GPS I am using (LS20031) the field is empy so I am wondering if this is just > a problem of implementation or what. > AFAIK, the data is highly  variable (location and time) so how is the GPS > module  able to provide it? Is it something provided by satellites? Will the > module compute it from the path comparing the bearing with an onboard > compass? > > Could some good soul shed some light on the matter? > > Thanks in advance. > > Giuseppe Marullo > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > -- ===== Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California
DM
David Martindale
Sat, Feb 5, 2011 5:54 PM

Garmin receivers provide that data in their RMC sentence.  They
apparently calculate it automatically using a mathematical model of
the earth's magnetic field, so its accuracy would depend on the
accuracy of the model.  The GPS system itself does not provide a way
to measure variation.

With the handheld models, this estimated variation is used to display
magnetic headings and bearings, if that's what you select instead of
true.  It's certainly convenient to use all magnetic values when your
compass reads only magnetic bearings (e.g. inexpensive compasses, most
sighting compasses).  The handheld receivers also allow you to set the
variation manually, if you know its value more accurately than the
estimate the receiver calculates.

Even the Garmin board-level receivers (e.g. GPS 25) output variation,
probably because Garmin already has the model for their other
receivers.

But omitting the magnetic variation data is apparently pretty common,
and it hardly seems like an essential function of a GPS receiver since
this can't be obtained as part of navigation.

 Dave

On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 6:32 AM, Giuseppe Marullo giuseppe@marullo.it wrote:

Hi all,
I am unable to understand how to get this field from a RMC sentence, on the
GPS I am using (LS20031) the field is empy so I am wondering if this is just
a problem of implementation or what.
AFAIK, the data is highly  variable (location and time) so how is the GPS
module  able to provide it? Is it something provided by satellites? Will the
module compute it from the path comparing the bearing with an onboard
compass?

Could some good soul shed some light on the matter?

Thanks in advance.

Giuseppe Marullo


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Garmin receivers provide that data in their RMC sentence. They apparently calculate it automatically using a mathematical model of the earth's magnetic field, so its accuracy would depend on the accuracy of the model. The GPS system itself does not provide a way to measure variation. With the handheld models, this estimated variation is used to display magnetic headings and bearings, if that's what you select instead of true. It's certainly convenient to use all magnetic values when your compass reads only magnetic bearings (e.g. inexpensive compasses, most sighting compasses). The handheld receivers also allow you to set the variation manually, if you know its value more accurately than the estimate the receiver calculates. Even the Garmin board-level receivers (e.g. GPS 25) output variation, probably because Garmin already has the model for their other receivers. But omitting the magnetic variation data is apparently pretty common, and it hardly seems like an essential function of a GPS receiver since this can't be obtained as part of navigation. Dave On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 6:32 AM, Giuseppe Marullo <giuseppe@marullo.it> wrote: > Hi all, > I am unable to understand how to get this field from a RMC sentence, on the > GPS I am using (LS20031) the field is empy so I am wondering if this is just > a problem of implementation or what. > AFAIK, the data is highly  variable (location and time) so how is the GPS > module  able to provide it? Is it something provided by satellites? Will the > module compute it from the path comparing the bearing with an onboard > compass? > > Could some good soul shed some light on the matter? > > Thanks in advance. > > Giuseppe Marullo > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >
AM
Alan Melia
Sat, Feb 5, 2011 6:17 PM

Try this site as an alternative for local magnetic data
http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomagmodels/IGRFWMM.jsp?defaultModel=WMM

Alan G3NYK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Albertson" albertson.chris@gmail.com
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT- RMC sentence and magnetic
variation/compensation in GPS module

The GPS receiver can only compute the direction to true north if the
antenna is on a moving vehicle.  The GPS looks backward to where you
were in the last few seconds and computers the direction of travel.
On a fixed antenna this can't work.

But even at best the GPS' idea of "north" is poor.  I had a sailboat
and what you'd do there is install a NMEA fluxgate compass. Many of
these contained gyros too.  Then you program your other instruments to
ignore the GPS NMEA heading and use the better compass data

But "magnetic variation" can be can be gotten from a map.  It is a
very slowly changing function of your location.  The GPS could have
the data in it's firmware.  Paper charts will always have the
variation in degrees and degrees per year printed on them.  I've also
seem some older GPS where the use must enter the variation in  a setup
menu.  Compensation would always need to be entered by hand.  You get
it from measuring your specific compass after turning onn all the
normal electronics.

My bet is that this unit does not have a variation map in its firmware
and you have to set it my hand or maybe the unit will pass it through
it it has a NMEA input  Some GPS's can listen on an input port and
will pass this data through if they either can't generate it or if the
user has programmed the GPS to pass the external data.

On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 6:32 AM, Giuseppe Marullo giuseppe@marullo.it
wrote:

Hi all,
I am unable to understand how to get this field from a RMC sentence, on

the

GPS I am using (LS20031) the field is empy so I am wondering if this is

just

a problem of implementation or what.
AFAIK, the data is highly variable (location and time) so how is the GPS
module able to provide it? Is it something provided by satellites? Will

the

module compute it from the path comparing the bearing with an onboard
compass?

Could some good soul shed some light on the matter?

Thanks in advance.

Giuseppe Marullo


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

--

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Try this site as an alternative for local magnetic data http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomagmodels/IGRFWMM.jsp?defaultModel=WMM Alan G3NYK ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Albertson" <albertson.chris@gmail.com> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT- RMC sentence and magnetic variation/compensation in GPS module The GPS receiver can only compute the direction to true north if the antenna is on a moving vehicle. The GPS looks backward to where you were in the last few seconds and computers the direction of travel. On a fixed antenna this can't work. But even at best the GPS' idea of "north" is poor. I had a sailboat and what you'd do there is install a NMEA fluxgate compass. Many of these contained gyros too. Then you program your other instruments to ignore the GPS NMEA heading and use the better compass data But "magnetic variation" can be can be gotten from a map. It is a very slowly changing function of your location. The GPS could have the data in it's firmware. Paper charts will always have the variation in degrees and degrees per year printed on them. I've also seem some older GPS where the use must enter the variation in a setup menu. Compensation would always need to be entered by hand. You get it from measuring your specific compass after turning onn all the normal electronics. My bet is that this unit does not have a variation map in its firmware and you have to set it my hand or maybe the unit will pass it through it it has a NMEA input Some GPS's can listen on an input port and will pass this data through if they either can't generate it or if the user has programmed the GPS to pass the external data. On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 6:32 AM, Giuseppe Marullo <giuseppe@marullo.it> wrote: > Hi all, > I am unable to understand how to get this field from a RMC sentence, on the > GPS I am using (LS20031) the field is empy so I am wondering if this is just > a problem of implementation or what. > AFAIK, the data is highly variable (location and time) so how is the GPS > module able to provide it? Is it something provided by satellites? Will the > module compute it from the path comparing the bearing with an onboard > compass? > > Could some good soul shed some light on the matter? > > Thanks in advance. > > Giuseppe Marullo > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > -- ===== Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
GM
Giuseppe Marullo
Sat, Feb 5, 2011 7:15 PM

Thanks to all for your answers. I am designing a low cost automagic
satellite dish pointer.

I was thinking that adding the magnetic compensation to the magnetic
compass would be neat, but obviously I can't get it from the internet,
still wondering how the GPS could provide a useful value if the modeling
is difficult, varying widely in time and space.

Giuseppe Marullo

Thanks to all for your answers. I am designing a low cost automagic satellite dish pointer. I was thinking that adding the magnetic compensation to the magnetic compass would be neat, but obviously I can't get it from the internet, still wondering how the GPS could provide a useful value if the modeling is difficult, varying widely in time and space. Giuseppe Marullo