Possible solution? Quit going to Marina's, anchor out. let the overpriced
SOB's Starve. If they have empty docks long enough, they will EVENTUALLY get the
message and lower prices.

This may happen anyway, due to the lack of cruisers because of fuel  prices.

I see this happening in Florida, what little marina space we have left (due
to Friggn Condo's) is usually very empty.

Marina's get no pity from me!

See you  on the Waterway
Capt. Sterling

MV SterlingLadyIII (http://floridakeys.homestead.com/sterlingladyIII.html)
Key  Largo, Fl.

**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

We don't pitty the marinas, and we do anchor out about 50% of the time, but the Admiral is much happier at a dock where she doesn't have to coordinate a shore expedition with me. If the Admiral is happier, I'm happier.

We understand supply and demand, but we refuse to stop at marinas over $1.50/ft and hesitate when it gets to $1.25/ft.

It's strange: I've noticed lots of empty slips also, but based on the difference between the skipper bob marina book and the prices we get when we call, I would say the average price has gone up around 25%. I have a couple of ideas:

• It's a short term spike before the fall. In order to keep income up as boats leave and buy less fuel, they increase the slip price, but this leads to more boats leaving, so they have to increase the price more. The question is: when will they drive enough customers away that the price increase can't make up the difference and they go bankrupt. The question that follows could be scarier: will it be new marina folks coming in, to buy on the cheap and provide reasonable marinas or will it be condo developers?
• Boats sit in thier permanent slip since the fuel prices are so high they don't travel. Slips set aside for transients sit empty and don't make as much money, so they get transients for as much as they can. Depending on the situation, I know some marinas have to set aside a percentage of thier slips for transients (Michigan municipal marinas are partly funded by the DNR as ports of refuge, so they are required to provide transient slips).

We've had some luck by looking for weekly rates. Coming up the east coast of florida, we've been able to keep the cost to $1/ft or less in a few places (titusville $5/wk but need new breakwall, St. Augustine $7/wk).

Mike & Tammy
Valhalla II (Gemini 3400)

FloridaKeyz@aol.com wrote:
Possible solution? Quit going to Marina's, anchor out. let the overpriced SOB's Starve. If they have empty docks long enough, they will EVENTUALLY get the message and lower prices.

This may happen anyway, due to the lack of cruisers because of fuel prices.

I see this happening in Florida, what little marina space we have left (due to Friggn Condo's) is usually very empty.

Marina's get no pity from me!

See you on the Waterway
Capt. Sterling
MV SterlingLadyIII
Key Largo, Fl.

Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.

I checked prices before deciding on Brunswick Landing Marina.  A months
dockage can be significantly cheaper than the daily rate for a week.  In my
case 200 less than 1.5 weeks.  Of course no refund for unused days.  The
landings offers easy walking to historic Brunswick and free laundry electric
and (no pump out as always seems full. There is no current as is a dead
which beats Two Way for sure.  There are many nice anchorages along there
but watch the gnats.  Also don't even try two ways fuel dock with anything
like a trawler or sail  boat.

Currently at anchor in the Cooper River (behind Hilton Head) after a nice
all day run off shore.  (PS would have been a great sail for ya and will
tomorrow for the next several days going north.

Joe

"Carolyn Ann"
Great Harbour -37

-----Original Message-----
From: great-loop-bounces+joseph.pica=gmail.com@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:great-loop-bounces+joseph.pica=gmail.com@lists.samurai.com] On
Behalf Of M S
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 9:55 AM
To: FloridaKeyz@aol.com; great-loop@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: GL: Fuel Prices vs. Marina Prices

We don't pitty the marinas, and we do anchor out about 50% of the time, but
the Admiral is much happier at a dock where she doesn't have to coordinate a
shore expedition with me. If the Admiral is happier, I'm happier.

We understand supply and demand, but we refuse to stop at marinas over
$1.50/ft and hesitate when it gets to $1.25/ft.

It's strange: I've noticed lots of empty slips also, but based on the
difference between the skipper bob marina book and the prices we get when we
call, I would say the average price has gone up around 25%. I have a couple
of ideas:

• It's a short term spike before the fall. In order to keep income up as
  boats leave and buy less fuel, they increase the slip price, but this leads
  to more boats leaving, so they have to increase the price more. The question
  is: when will they drive enough customers away that the price increase can't
  make up the difference and they go bankrupt. The question that follows could
  be scarier: will it be new marina folks coming in, to buy on the cheap and
  provide reasonable marinas or will it be condo developers?
• Boats sit in thier permanent slip since the fuel prices are so high
  they don't travel. Slips set aside for transients sit empty and don't make
  as much money, so they get transients for as much as they can. Depending on
  the situation, I know some marinas have to set aside a percentage of thier
  slips for transients (Michigan municipal marinas are partly funded by the
  DNR as ports of refuge, so they are required to provide transient slips).

We've had some luck by looking for weekly rates. Coming up the east coast
of florida, we've been able to keep the cost to $1/ft or less in a few
places (titusville $5/wk but need new breakwall, St. Augustine $7/wk).

Mike & Tammy
Valhalla II (Gemini 3400)

FloridaKeyz@aol.com wrote:
Possible solution? Quit going to Marina's, anchor out. let the
overpriced SOB's Starve. If they have empty docks long enough, they will
EVENTUALLY get the message and lower prices.

This may happen anyway, due to the lack of cruisers because of fuel
prices.

I see this happening in Florida, what little marina space we have left
(due to Friggn Condo's) is usually very empty.

Marina's get no pity from me!

See you on the Waterway
Capt. Sterling
MV SterlingLadyIII
Key Largo, Fl.

Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence"
on AOL Food.

http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/great-loop

To modify your Great-Loop subscription options (change email address,
unsubscribe, etc.) go to:
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/options/great-loop

Thank you! We did get something very useful out of that.

We have been looking at the monthly rates also and plan to stop for a month in either Charleston or Myrtle Beach.

In Vero Beach we did the monthly rate for two months (we had to leave the boat for a month for buisness) and left a week on the table because we needed to get out of florida for hurricane season. But I didn't think of going in planning to stay for a couple of weeks and asking for the monthly rate. If we can get someplace for $10/ft and stay 2 weeks we are under $1/ft/night. I can live with that

On a side note: Winnie the Pooh did the math on my statement about using $10 worth of electricity. It is theoretically possible to burn $10 worth. I had looked at the math before making the statement, but it starts getting complicated and very theoretical:

• $0.12/kwh is at the high end of the spectrum (but not unreasonable and it is a moving target on the way up).
• I work with electritians and it came up on day that our 30amp plugs are only rated for I believe it was 24 amps.
• When I was sizing for a portable generator, I ran some checks with an amp meter. With the AC, two fans, the TV, fridge and a couple of smaller devices running, I'm only pulling around 10 amps. The AC is by far the bulk of that and it typically cycles on and off. When it is off I'm pulling a couple amps. Rough estimate I'm pulling about 6 amps on average on warm day, less if it is cooler. At $0.12/kwh that's about $2/day and it doesn't explain why marinas next door to each other have wildly different rates.
• So far the only explaintion is it is the equivilent of "shop supplies" or in other words it is a marketing gimick to make the marina look cheaper then nickel and dime you into paying more, since most people don't want to look cheap by walking away or it is too late to go to another marina.

Thanks for the help, this discussion will same me money.

Mike & Tammy
Valhalla II

joe joseph.pica@gmail.com wrote:
I checked prices before deciding on Brunswick Landing Marina. A months
dockage can be significantly cheaper than the daily rate for a week. In my
case 200 less than 1.5 weeks. Of course no refund for unused days. The
landings offers easy walking to historic Brunswick and free laundry electric
and (no pump out as always seems full. There is no current as is a dead
which beats Two Way for sure. There are many nice anchorages along there
but watch the gnats. Also don't even try two ways fuel dock with anything
like a trawler or sail boat.

Currently at anchor in the Cooper River (behind Hilton Head) after a nice
all day run off shore. (PS would have been a great sail for ya and will
tomorrow for the next several days going north.

Joe

"Carolyn Ann"
Great Harbour -37