Spectracom 8170 -> SWCC clock
I have a Spectracom 8170 in the living room (who doesn't?), and a Western Union
time-service clock, a.k.a SWCC clock -- a nice one, in a 3-foot-high wood case.
I've been watching TV with this combination for years and years but never got
around to feeding a pulse from the 8170 to discipline the other one. Now that
Western Union no longer provides the service. :-) But it just begs to be done.
I did draw up a TTL circuit, once (on a napkin, naturally, which I have now
misplaced), that could live inside the 8170. I figured out the minimum number
of inputs needed to detect when the MM:SS LED displays said 00:00 (for one
second). It would close a relay, which could feed the winding-battery power to
the hour-set solenoid down a pair of wires from 10 feet away. But I never built it.
A little over a year ago the TS clock was getting gummy and free-running slower
and slower, so I sent it to the clock hospital. It's back and free-running
nicely, so maybe it's finally time I did this. Anyone got a better idea than my
little TTL circuit, on a breadboard inside the 8170? I'd like to get it across
the rear panel without cutting a new hole, if I can avoid it. But maybe the
right connector would do. Another time-code receiver in the TS clock, e.g. a
GPS module that provides a relay closure for 1 second on the hour (if such
exists) might be neater. But the living room faces north.
Some of the spectracoms like my 8170 actually put out timecodes and had
other options that were clever. It really depends on your comfort with
technology. Nothing at all wrong with a 0000 detector using 74ls30s or any
other mix of logic hitting a monostable and then a power transistor.
Snitching its voltage from the 8170 supply.
Next level any of the very simple micros if you have a flare for a little
programming more so then an iron.
What you needs very reasonable.
Please share a pix of the WU clock.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 5:23 PM, Jim Hickstein jxh@jxh.com wrote:
I have a Spectracom 8170 in the living room (who doesn't?), and a Western
Union time-service clock, a.k.a SWCC clock -- a nice one, in a 3-foot-high
wood case. I've been watching TV with this combination for years and years
but never got around to feeding a pulse from the 8170 to discipline the
other one. Now that Western Union no longer provides the service. :-) But
it just begs to be done.
I did draw up a TTL circuit, once (on a napkin, naturally, which I have
now misplaced), that could live inside the 8170. I figured out the minimum
number of inputs needed to detect when the MM:SS LED displays said 00:00
(for one second). It would close a relay, which could feed the
winding-battery power to the hour-set solenoid down a pair of wires from 10
feet away. But I never built it.
A little over a year ago the TS clock was getting gummy and free-running
slower and slower, so I sent it to the clock hospital. It's back and
free-running nicely, so maybe it's finally time I did this. Anyone got a
better idea than my little TTL circuit, on a breadboard inside the 8170?
I'd like to get it across the rear panel without cutting a new hole, if I
can avoid it. But maybe the right connector would do. Another time-code
receiver in the TS clock, e.g. a GPS module that provides a relay closure
for 1 second on the hour (if such exists) might be neater. But the living
room faces north.
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Hi Jim:
There are a number of options.
Ken's clock clinic sells what appears to be a No. 6 Battery that has a synchronization function for the Western Union
clocks.
But the problem with it and the drivers for slave clocks is that they use fairly low voltage circuitry.
Stock Tickers and Teletype machines are tpically run with loop voltages in the 60 to 200 Volt range.
Have Fun,
Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html
Jim Hickstein wrote:
I have a Spectracom 8170 in the living room (who doesn't?), and a Western Union time-service clock, a.k.a SWCC clock
-- a nice one, in a 3-foot-high wood case. I've been watching TV with this combination for years and years but never
got around to feeding a pulse from the 8170 to discipline the other one. Now that Western Union no longer provides the
service. :-) But it just begs to be done.
I did draw up a TTL circuit, once (on a napkin, naturally, which I have now misplaced), that could live inside the
8170. I figured out the minimum number of inputs needed to detect when the MM:SS LED displays said 00:00 (for one
second). It would close a relay, which could feed the winding-battery power to the hour-set solenoid down a pair of
wires from 10 feet away. But I never built it.
A little over a year ago the TS clock was getting gummy and free-running slower and slower, so I sent it to the clock
hospital. It's back and free-running nicely, so maybe it's finally time I did this. Anyone got a better idea than my
little TTL circuit, on a breadboard inside the 8170? I'd like to get it across the rear panel without cutting a new
hole, if I can avoid it. But maybe the right connector would do. Another time-code receiver in the TS clock, e.g. a
GPS module that provides a relay closure for 1 second on the hour (if such exists) might be neater. But the living
room faces north.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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and follow the instructions there.
Hi again:
Sorry sent too soon.
The time constant of the loop is L/R. By increasing R the loop runs faster.
Western Union ran the clocks from 200 Volts with a dropping resistor to get the desired current.
When driven form say 12 Volts the clock response is sluggish, but when driven from higher voltages the response is very
snappy.
I think a simple blocking oscillator could be used to charge up a photo cap and dump it into one or more series
connected clocks.
http://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC.shtml
http://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC2.shtml
http://www.prc68.com/I/SETSC.shtml#IMP2
http://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC.shtml#L
Have Fun,
Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html
Brooke Clarke wrote:
Hi Jim:
There are a number of options.
Ken's clock clinic sells what appears to be a No. 6 Battery that has a synchronization function for the Western Union
clocks.
But the problem with it and the drivers for slave clocks is that they use fairly low voltage circuitry.
Stock Tickers and Teletype machines are tpically run with loop voltages in the 60 to 200 Volt range.
Have Fun,
Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html
Jim Hickstein wrote:
I have a Spectracom 8170 in the living room (who doesn't?), and a Western Union time-service clock, a.k.a SWCC clock
-- a nice one, in a 3-foot-high wood case. I've been watching TV with this combination for years and years but never
got around to feeding a pulse from the 8170 to discipline the other one. Now that Western Union no longer provides
the service. :-) But it just begs to be done.
I did draw up a TTL circuit, once (on a napkin, naturally, which I have now misplaced), that could live inside the
8170. I figured out the minimum number of inputs needed to detect when the MM:SS LED displays said 00:00 (for one
second). It would close a relay, which could feed the winding-battery power to the hour-set solenoid down a pair of
wires from 10 feet away. But I never built it.
A little over a year ago the TS clock was getting gummy and free-running slower and slower, so I sent it to the clock
hospital. It's back and free-running nicely, so maybe it's finally time I did this. Anyone got a better idea than
my little TTL circuit, on a breadboard inside the 8170? I'd like to get it across the rear panel without cutting a
new hole, if I can avoid it. But maybe the right connector would do. Another time-code receiver in the TS clock,
e.g. a GPS module that provides a relay closure for 1 second on the hour (if such exists) might be neater. But the
living room faces north.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
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Yahoo for real voltage power and current. Teletype style.
Yes indeed the old loop currents seriously worked.
No AA batteries here. ;-)
When will we see a pix of this unit??
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 9:25 PM, Brooke Clarke brooke@pacific.net wrote:
Hi Jim:
There are a number of options.
Ken's clock clinic sells what appears to be a No. 6 Battery that has a
synchronization function for the Western Union clocks.
But the problem with it and the drivers for slave clocks is that they use
fairly low voltage circuitry.
Stock Tickers and Teletype machines are tpically run with loop voltages in
the 60 to 200 Volt range.
Have Fun,
Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.**end2partygovernment.com/**Brooke4Congress.htmlhttp://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html
Jim Hickstein wrote:
I have a Spectracom 8170 in the living room (who doesn't?), and a Western
Union time-service clock, a.k.a SWCC clock -- a nice one, in a 3-foot-high
wood case. I've been watching TV with this combination for years and years
but never got around to feeding a pulse from the 8170 to discipline the
other one. Now that Western Union no longer provides the service. :-) But
it just begs to be done.
I did draw up a TTL circuit, once (on a napkin, naturally, which I have
now misplaced), that could live inside the 8170. I figured out the minimum
number of inputs needed to detect when the MM:SS LED displays said 00:00
(for one second). It would close a relay, which could feed the
winding-battery power to the hour-set solenoid down a pair of wires from 10
feet away. But I never built it.
A little over a year ago the TS clock was getting gummy and free-running
slower and slower, so I sent it to the clock hospital. It's back and
free-running nicely, so maybe it's finally time I did this. Anyone got a
better idea than my little TTL circuit, on a breadboard inside the 8170?
I'd like to get it across the rear panel without cutting a new hole, if I
can avoid it. But maybe the right connector would do. Another time-code
receiver in the TS clock, e.g. a GPS module that provides a relay closure
for 1 second on the hour (if such exists) might be neater. But the living
room faces north.
_____________**
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Guess I simply did not read enough threads I see the pix.
Thanks
On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 9:42 PM, Brooke Clarke brooke@pacific.net wrote:
Hi again:
Sorry sent too soon.
The time constant of the loop is L/R. By increasing R the loop runs
faster.
Western Union ran the clocks from 200 Volts with a dropping resistor to
get the desired current.
When driven form say 12 Volts the clock response is sluggish, but when
driven from higher voltages the response is very snappy.
I think a simple blocking oscillator could be used to charge up a photo
cap and dump it into one or more series connected clocks.
http://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC.**shtml http://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC.shtml
http://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC2.**shtml http://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC2.shtml
http://www.prc68.com/I/SETSC.**shtml#IMP2http://www.prc68.com/I/SETSC.shtml#IMP2
http://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC.**shtml#Lhttp://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC.shtml#L
Have Fun,
Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.**end2partygovernment.com/**Brooke4Congress.htmlhttp://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html
Brooke Clarke wrote:
Hi Jim:
There are a number of options.
Ken's clock clinic sells what appears to be a No. 6 Battery that has a
synchronization function for the Western Union clocks.
But the problem with it and the drivers for slave clocks is that they use
fairly low voltage circuitry.
Stock Tickers and Teletype machines are tpically run with loop voltages
in the 60 to 200 Volt range.
Have Fun,
Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.**end2partygovernment.com/**Brooke4Congress.htmlhttp://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html
Jim Hickstein wrote:
I have a Spectracom 8170 in the living room (who doesn't?), and a
Western Union time-service clock, a.k.a SWCC clock -- a nice one, in a
3-foot-high wood case. I've been watching TV with this combination for
years and years but never got around to feeding a pulse from the 8170 to
discipline the other one. Now that Western Union no longer provides the
service. :-) But it just begs to be done.
I did draw up a TTL circuit, once (on a napkin, naturally, which I have
now misplaced), that could live inside the 8170. I figured out the minimum
number of inputs needed to detect when the MM:SS LED displays said 00:00
(for one second). It would close a relay, which could feed the
winding-battery power to the hour-set solenoid down a pair of wires from 10
feet away. But I never built it.
A little over a year ago the TS clock was getting gummy and free-running
slower and slower, so I sent it to the clock hospital. It's back and
free-running nicely, so maybe it's finally time I did this. Anyone got a
better idea than my little TTL circuit, on a breadboard inside the 8170?
I'd like to get it across the rear panel without cutting a new hole, if I
can avoid it. But maybe the right connector would do. Another time-code
receiver in the TS clock, e.g. a GPS module that provides a relay closure
for 1 second on the hour (if such exists) might be neater. But the living
room faces north.
_____________**
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On 1/22/12 1:56 PM, paul swed wrote:
Yahoo for real voltage power and current. Teletype style.
Yes indeed the old loop currents seriously worked.
No AA batteries here. ;-)
When will we see a pix of this unit??
It's my day off. :-)
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 9:25 PM, Brooke Clarkebrooke@pacific.net wrote:
Hi Jim:
There are a number of options.
Ken's clock clinic sells what appears to be a No. 6 Battery that has a
synchronization function for the Western Union clocks.
But the problem with it and the drivers for slave clocks is that they use
fairly low voltage circuitry.
Stock Tickers and Teletype machines are tpically run with loop voltages in
the 60 to 200 Volt range.
Have Fun,
Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.**end2partygovernment.com/**Brooke4Congress.htmlhttp://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html
Jim Hickstein wrote:
I have a Spectracom 8170 in the living room (who doesn't?), and a Western
Union time-service clock, a.k.a SWCC clock -- a nice one, in a 3-foot-high
wood case. I've been watching TV with this combination for years and years
but never got around to feeding a pulse from the 8170 to discipline the
other one. Now that Western Union no longer provides the service. :-) But
it just begs to be done.
I did draw up a TTL circuit, once (on a napkin, naturally, which I have
now misplaced), that could live inside the 8170. I figured out the minimum
number of inputs needed to detect when the MM:SS LED displays said 00:00
(for one second). It would close a relay, which could feed the
winding-battery power to the hour-set solenoid down a pair of wires from 10
feet away. But I never built it.
A little over a year ago the TS clock was getting gummy and free-running
slower and slower, so I sent it to the clock hospital. It's back and
free-running nicely, so maybe it's finally time I did this. Anyone got a
better idea than my little TTL circuit, on a breadboard inside the 8170?
I'd like to get it across the rear panel without cutting a new hole, if I
can avoid it. But maybe the right connector would do. Another time-code
receiver in the TS clock, e.g. a GPS module that provides a relay closure
for 1 second on the hour (if such exists) might be neater. But the living
room faces north.
_____________**
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OK Clark put some pix up.
On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 2:58 PM, Jim Hickstein jxh@jxh.com wrote:
On 1/22/12 1:56 PM, paul swed wrote:
Yahoo for real voltage power and current. Teletype style.
Yes indeed the old loop currents seriously worked.
No AA batteries here. ;-)
When will we see a pix of this unit??
It's my day off. :-)
Regards
There are a number of options.
Ken's clock clinic sells what appears to be a No. 6 Battery that has a
synchronization function for the Western Union clocks.
But the problem with it and the drivers for slave clocks is that they use
fairly low voltage circuitry.
Stock Tickers and Teletype machines are tpically run with loop voltages
in
the 60 to 200 Volt range.
Have Fun,
Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/**Brooke4Congress.htmlhttp://end2partygovernment.com/**Brooke4Congress.html
<**http://www.**end2partygovernment.com/**Brooke4Congress.htmlhttp://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html
Jim Hickstein wrote:
I have a Spectracom 8170 in the living room (who doesn't?), and a
Western
Union time-service clock, a.k.a SWCC clock -- a nice one, in a
3-foot-high
wood case. I've been watching TV with this combination for years and
years
but never got around to feeding a pulse from the 8170 to discipline the
other one. Now that Western Union no longer provides the service. :-)
But
it just begs to be done.
I did draw up a TTL circuit, once (on a napkin, naturally, which I have
now misplaced), that could live inside the 8170. I figured out the
minimum
number of inputs needed to detect when the MM:SS LED displays said 00:00
(for one second). It would close a relay, which could feed the
winding-battery power to the hour-set solenoid down a pair of wires
from 10
feet away. But I never built it.
A little over a year ago the TS clock was getting gummy and free-running
slower and slower, so I sent it to the clock hospital. It's back and
free-running nicely, so maybe it's finally time I did this. Anyone got
a
better idea than my little TTL circuit, on a breadboard inside the 8170?
I'd like to get it across the rear panel without cutting a new hole,
if I
can avoid it. But maybe the right connector would do. Another
time-code
receiver in the TS clock, e.g. a GPS module that provides a relay
closure
for 1 second on the hour (if such exists) might be neater. But the
living
room faces north.
_____________****
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On 2012/01/22 13:58, Jim Hickstein wrote:
On 1/22/12 1:56 PM, paul swed wrote:
Yahoo for real voltage power and current. Teletype style.
Yes indeed the old loop currents seriously worked.
No AA batteries here. ;-)
How far will I get with my 3 D cells? They make it wind nicely, but I've been
afraid to try 6V, having read somewhere (probably Brooke's pages) not to exceed
3V lest one damage something. Then again, that's the local battery, not the
setting signal. (No. 6 dry cell? Dear me, I hadn't even thought of one of
those for 40 years.)
When will we see a pix of this unit??
It's my day off. :-)
Then again, what's a day off for, if not this kind of thing?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jxh1/tags/clock/
Brooke Clarke's pix are nice, but I think I have the nicest SWCC clock out
there, one of the nicest I've seen. Coincidentally, I bought it in about 1986
from a fellow named Clark (last name I don't recall), who was a member of the
Minnesota horological society, or whatever it's called. A friend of mine,
another member, put me on to this, and I jumped at it. (Actually, he has an
even nicer one, a big Air Force unit IIRC that's about 6 feet tall, and with a
mercury pendulum bob.) Took the thing back home to California, and it came with
me when I moved back to Minnesota in 2003. It's been the primary time display
in my house since I got it. I also still keep the Textronix carton I scrounged,
that's a perfect fit, for moving it.
-Jim
K6JXH/0
NICE!
Measure the resistance of the coil, and see what the current would be
with the voltage you want to use. Figure out what the current might have
been in the original installation. Ebay has an installation manual at
auction for these clocks, may have a description of the driving circuit.
In extremis, measure or estimate the coil wire size and calculate the
heat loss for the actuated time with the voltage you want to use.
Don
Jim Hickstein
On 2012/01/22 13:58, Jim Hickstein wrote:
On 1/22/12 1:56 PM, paul swed wrote:
Yahoo for real voltage power and current. Teletype style.
Yes indeed the old loop currents seriously worked.
No AA batteries here. ;-)
How far will I get with my 3 D cells? They make it wind nicely, but
I've been
afraid to try 6V, having read somewhere (probably Brooke's pages) not to
exceed
3V lest one damage something. Then again, that's the local battery, not
the
setting signal. (No. 6 dry cell? Dear me, I hadn't even thought of one
of
those for 40 years.)
When will we see a pix of this unit??
It's my day off. :-)
Then again, what's a day off for, if not this kind of thing?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jxh1/tags/clock/
Brooke Clarke's pix are nice, but I think I have the nicest SWCC clock
out
there, one of the nicest I've seen. Coincidentally, I bought it in
about 1986
from a fellow named Clark (last name I don't recall), who was a member
of the
Minnesota horological society, or whatever it's called. A friend of
mine,
another member, put me on to this, and I jumped at it. (Actually, he
has an
even nicer one, a big Air Force unit IIRC that's about 6 feet tall, and
with a
mercury pendulum bob.) Took the thing back home to California, and it
came with
me when I moved back to Minnesota in 2003. It's been the primary time
display
in my house since I got it. I also still keep the Textronix carton I
scrounged,
that's a perfect fit, for moving it.
-Jim
K6JXH/0
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
--
"Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind."
R. Bacon
"If you don't know what it is, don't poke it."
Ghost in the Shell
Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLP
17850 Six Mile Road
POB 134
Huson, MT, 59846
VOX 406-626-4304
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com
Nice pixs
I would think that the setting winding would be of the old teletype loop
voltage and current and that the local winding battery as mentioned would
have been 3-6 VDC.
Nice looking clock lucky you to find such an instrument.
Regards
Paul.
On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 3:49 PM, Jim Hickstein jxh@jxh.com wrote:
On 2012/01/22 13:58, Jim Hickstein wrote:
On 1/22/12 1:56 PM, paul swed wrote:
Yahoo for real voltage power and current. Teletype style.
Yes indeed the old loop currents seriously worked.
No AA batteries here. ;-)
How far will I get with my 3 D cells? They make it wind nicely, but I've
been afraid to try 6V, having read somewhere (probably Brooke's pages) not
to exceed 3V lest one damage something. Then again, that's the local
battery, not the setting signal. (No. 6 dry cell? Dear me, I hadn't even
thought of one of those for 40 years.)
When will we see a pix of this unit??
It's my day off. :-)
Then again, what's a day off for, if not this kind of thing?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/**jxh1/tags/clock/http://www.flickr.com/photos/jxh1/tags/clock/
Brooke Clarke's pix are nice, but I think I have the nicest SWCC clock out
there, one of the nicest I've seen. Coincidentally, I bought it in about
1986 from a fellow named Clark (last name I don't recall), who was a member
of the Minnesota horological society, or whatever it's called. A friend of
mine, another member, put me on to this, and I jumped at it. (Actually, he
has an even nicer one, a big Air Force unit IIRC that's about 6 feet tall,
and with a mercury pendulum bob.) Took the thing back home to California,
and it came with me when I moved back to Minnesota in 2003. It's been the
primary time display in my house since I got it. I also still keep the
Textronix carton I scrounged, that's a perfect fit, for moving it.
-Jim
K6JXH/0
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On 2012/01/22 14:56, Don Latham wrote:
NICE!
Measure the resistance of the coil, and see what the current would be
with the voltage you want to use. Figure out what the current might have
been in the original installation. Ebay has an installation manual at
auction for these clocks, may have a description of the driving circuit.
I hate to pay twenty bucks for a PDF, or to pay twenty bucks just to find out.
If it's anything like this:
http://electric-clocks.com/SWCC/
... it doesn't say. The winding battery, and the setting signal, were supplied,
and the installer didn't need to know the specs. But, then again, I can't
afford to experiment too broadly and damage my museum piece. I think the guy
who recently cleaned and repaired the movement tested this coil. I'll call him
back and ask what he put on it.
In extremis, measure or estimate the coil wire size and calculate the
heat loss for the actuated time with the voltage you want to use.
Don
Hi
Teletype loop current as in 20 ma through the coil via a dropping resistor off of 125 vdc.
Bob
On Jan 22, 2012, at 4:06 PM, paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com wrote:
Nice pixs
I would think that the setting winding would be of the old teletype loop
voltage and current and that the local winding battery as mentioned would
have been 3-6 VDC.
Nice looking clock lucky you to find such an instrument.
Regards
Paul.
On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 3:49 PM, Jim Hickstein jxh@jxh.com wrote:
On 2012/01/22 13:58, Jim Hickstein wrote:
On 1/22/12 1:56 PM, paul swed wrote:
Yahoo for real voltage power and current. Teletype style.
Yes indeed the old loop currents seriously worked.
No AA batteries here. ;-)
How far will I get with my 3 D cells? They make it wind nicely, but I've
been afraid to try 6V, having read somewhere (probably Brooke's pages) not
to exceed 3V lest one damage something. Then again, that's the local
battery, not the setting signal. (No. 6 dry cell? Dear me, I hadn't even
thought of one of those for 40 years.)
When will we see a pix of this unit??
It's my day off. :-)
Then again, what's a day off for, if not this kind of thing?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/**jxh1/tags/clock/http://www.flickr.com/photos/jxh1/tags/clock/
Brooke Clarke's pix are nice, but I think I have the nicest SWCC clock out
there, one of the nicest I've seen. Coincidentally, I bought it in about
1986 from a fellow named Clark (last name I don't recall), who was a member
of the Minnesota horological society, or whatever it's called. A friend of
mine, another member, put me on to this, and I jumped at it. (Actually, he
has an even nicer one, a big Air Force unit IIRC that's about 6 feet tall,
and with a mercury pendulum bob.) Took the thing back home to California,
and it came with me when I moved back to Minnesota in 2003. It's been the
primary time display in my house since I got it. I also still keep the
Textronix carton I scrounged, that's a perfect fit, for moving it.
-Jim
K6JXH/0
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Hi:
Synchronizer coil data at:
http://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC.shtml#SC <- old 2 coil sync
and
http://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC2.shtml#SC <- newer single coil sync
The WU central office used a 200 VDC supply and the loop drove a number of series connected sync coils. A large ceramic
tube variable resistor was used to set the loop current.
It's amazing how much snappier the sync action is when the loop resistance is raised, i.e. shorter time constant/higher
loop voltage.
I think something like a throwaway camera flash circuit could be charged up maybe a minute before the top of the hour
and then dumped into the sync coil a few (TBD) ms prior to the exact top of the hour.
Have Fun,
Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html
Jim Hickstein wrote:
On 2012/01/22 14:56, Don Latham wrote:
NICE!
Measure the resistance of the coil, and see what the current would be
with the voltage you want to use. Figure out what the current might have
been in the original installation. Ebay has an installation manual at
auction for these clocks, may have a description of the driving circuit.
I hate to pay twenty bucks for a PDF, or to pay twenty bucks just to find out. If it's anything like this:
http://electric-clocks.com/SWCC/
... it doesn't say. The winding battery, and the setting signal, were supplied, and the installer didn't need to know
the specs. But, then again, I can't afford to experiment too broadly and damage my museum piece. I think the guy who
recently cleaned and repaired the movement tested this coil. I'll call him back and ask what he put on it.
In extremis, measure or estimate the coil wire size and calculate the
heat loss for the actuated time with the voltage you want to use.
Don
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On 2012/01/22 15:29, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
Teletype loop current as in 20 ma through the coil via a dropping resistor off of 125 vdc.
Value for the dropping resistor? (I know, I'm an Extra, and I used to design
digital circuits, so I should know this stuff. But I've been in software for a
long time. Let's see.... E over I R.)
I measured the setting coil at the terminals: 11.5 ohms. To limit 125 VDC to
20mA, this would need an additional 6.2 Kohms. I suppose that represents the
metallic circuit back to WU plus a bunch of other 11.5-ohm clocks on the same
circuit, plus a compensating resistor back at the head end?
Locally, a D cell (or 3 in series, which I have), with about 200 more ohms,
might do. (Reaches into desk drawer.) Let's see if I still have that bunch of
100-ohm resistors left over from making an ISDN terminator. Why, yes!
Quarter-watt. P over I E. 90mW. Eh, it probably won't blow up.
I tried measuring the winding coil, too: 0.1 ohms, but I'm not sure I was
getting it in the right place. And now I've put the face back on the clock.
Otherwise I couldn't tell what time it was! I am really trained to look at that
spot on the wall for this information. While the SWCC was in the hospital (for
over a year) I had to buy another clock to put there. The blank spot was
driving me crazy.
Hi Jim:
On web page:
http://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC2.shtml#SC
I have data from Henry W. that says 120 V (my memory was wrong on the 200 V) and he says 250 ma.
This will give about 66 times faster response time than using 3 Volts.
I'm spending time on this because with low loop voltage the action is so sluggish that it will barely work or for a
clock that's not brand new and properly oiled may not work at all.
Have Fun,
Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html
Jim Hickstein wrote:
On 2012/01/22 15:29, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
Teletype loop current as in 20 ma through the coil via a dropping resistor off of 125 vdc.
Value for the dropping resistor? (I know, I'm an Extra, and I used to design digital circuits, so I should know this
stuff. But I've been in software for a long time. Let's see.... E over I R.)
I measured the setting coil at the terminals: 11.5 ohms. To limit 125 VDC to 20mA, this would need an additional 6.2
Kohms. I suppose that represents the metallic circuit back to WU plus a bunch of other 11.5-ohm clocks on the same
circuit, plus a compensating resistor back at the head end?
Locally, a D cell (or 3 in series, which I have), with about 200 more ohms, might do. (Reaches into desk drawer.)
Let's see if I still have that bunch of 100-ohm resistors left over from making an ISDN terminator. Why, yes!
Quarter-watt. P over I E. 90mW. Eh, it probably won't blow up.
I tried measuring the winding coil, too: 0.1 ohms, but I'm not sure I was getting it in the right place. And now I've
put the face back on the clock. Otherwise I couldn't tell what time it was! I am really trained to look at that spot
on the wall for this information. While the SWCC was in the hospital (for over a year) I had to buy another clock to
put there. The blank spot was driving me crazy.
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On 2012/01/22 17:03, Brooke Clarke wrote:
Hi Jim:
On web page:
http://www.prc68.com/I/SWCC2.shtml#SC
I have data from Henry W. that says 120 V (my memory was wrong on the 200 V) and
he says 250 ma.
This will give about 66 times faster response time than using 3 Volts.
Oh, I was reading the dual-coil section.
I'm spending time on this because with low loop voltage the action is so
sluggish that it will barely work or for a clock that's not brand new and
properly oiled may not work at all.
Got it, thanks. Since I have 4.5V easily obtainable, and a freshly cleaned and
oiled clock, I may give that a shot first, with or without the 200 ohms. Then
I'll know better what you're talking about.
I don't mind if it's a little sluggish. I just want to keep the thing from
drifting a minute a week, which is about where I have the pendulum adjusted now.
The local temperature variations introduce significant error. The pendulum
rod seems to be of wood, without much in the way of temperature compensation.
But of course, with the setting signal, it didn't need to free-run with high
accuracy.
Hi
6K is about right. The resistor was typically a big ceramic wire wound 10K variable.
No guarantee it's right for a clock, just that it's right for a teletype.
Bob
On Jan 22, 2012, at 5:46 PM, Jim Hickstein jxh@jxh.com wrote:
On 2012/01/22 15:29, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
Teletype loop current as in 20 ma through the coil via a dropping resistor off of 125 vdc.
Value for the dropping resistor? (I know, I'm an Extra, and I used to design digital circuits, so I should know this stuff. But I've been in software for a long time. Let's see.... E over I R.)
I measured the setting coil at the terminals: 11.5 ohms. To limit 125 VDC to 20mA, this would need an additional 6.2 Kohms. I suppose that represents the metallic circuit back to WU plus a bunch of other 11.5-ohm clocks on the same circuit, plus a compensating resistor back at the head end?
Locally, a D cell (or 3 in series, which I have), with about 200 more ohms, might do. (Reaches into desk drawer.) Let's see if I still have that bunch of 100-ohm resistors left over from making an ISDN terminator. Why, yes! Quarter-watt. P over I E. 90mW. Eh, it probably won't blow up.
I tried measuring the winding coil, too: 0.1 ohms, but I'm not sure I was getting it in the right place. And now I've put the face back on the clock. Otherwise I couldn't tell what time it was! I am really trained to look at that spot on the wall for this information. While the SWCC was in the hospital (for over a year) I had to buy another clock to put there. The blank spot was driving me crazy.
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Reviewing the schematic for the 8170 (I'll get back to the setting coil in the
clock a bit later), my unit does not seem to have Option 18 and A4-U4, the 8255A
at its heart, is not populated. A pity: it would have lovely BCD outputs and an
on-time pulse, just what I need. (The recent discussion of multiplexed
7-segment LED outputs tells me I don't want to try to detect ":00:00" or
":59:59" there.)
What are the chances my EEPROMs would DTRT if I just added an 8255A to this
board? What other components should I add to complete the Option 18 installation?
If I need different EEPROMs to enable Option 18, where could I get the image?
(The parts and the programmer I can probably get.)
On 2012/01/20 16:23, Jim Hickstein wrote:
I have a Spectracom 8170 in the living room (who doesn't?), and a Western Union
time-service clock, a.k.a SWCC clock -- a nice one, in a 3-foot-high wood case.
I've been watching TV with this combination for years and years but never got
around to feeding a pulse from the 8170 to discipline the other one. Now that
Western Union no longer provides the service. :-) But it just begs to be done.
I did draw up a TTL circuit, once (on a napkin, naturally, which I have now
misplaced), that could live inside the 8170. I figured out the minimum number of
inputs needed to detect when the MM:SS LED displays said 00:00 (for one second).
It would close a relay, which could feed the winding-battery power to the
hour-set solenoid down a pair of wires from 10 feet away. But I never built it.
A little over a year ago the TS clock was getting gummy and free-running slower
and slower, so I sent it to the clock hospital. It's back and free-running
nicely, so maybe it's finally time I did this. Anyone got a better idea than my
little TTL circuit, on a breadboard inside the 8170? I'd like to get it across
the rear panel without cutting a new hole, if I can avoid it. But maybe the
right connector would do. Another time-code receiver in the TS clock, e.g. a GPS
module that provides a relay closure for 1 second on the hour (if such exists)
might be neater. But the living room faces north.
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On 2012/01/23 15:28, Jim Hickstein wrote:
Reviewing the schematic for the 8170 (I'll get back to the setting coil in the
clock a bit later), my unit does not seem to have Option 18 and A4-U4, the 8255A
at its heart, is not populated. A pity: it would have lovely BCD outputs and an
on-time pulse, just what I need. (The recent discussion of multiplexed 7-segment
LED outputs tells me I don't want to try to detect ":00:00" or ":59:59" there.)
What are the chances my EEPROMs would DTRT if I just added an 8255A to this
board?
Looking better today. I dragged a scope up from the basement. CS is getting
hit, about 11 times, near the beginning of each second (image). I guess this
means I have to design the circuit, now, and place an order for some parts.
What other components should I add to complete the Option 18 installation?
A3U4, the 8255A, seems to be the only thing missing, apart from A3J4, the 50-pin
header that connects to a cable to bring these BCD signals out to the rear panel
DD-50, also missing. For my purposes I can stop at the header. It'll be a nice
place to mount a little daughterboard. This is on sheet 4 of A3, the uP board
schematic, not on a separate sheet as some other options are.
If I need different EEPROMs to enable Option 18, where could I get the image?
(The parts and the programmer I can probably get.)
Perhaps I'll do a socket and the 8255A first, just to see the output pins move
as expected. This means paying Digikey for shipping twice. Oh, well. (Anyone
near http://www.airnav.com/airport/KMSP got an 8255A lying around? I have some
Augat 40-pin sockets left over from 1983, packrat that I am.)
Maybe I can get it done in time to have it send a pulse to the clock during
:59:59 or :59:60. :-) I don't recall if an 8170 is quite that savvy, to
produce this on its output, but the BCD encoding could do it. We'll find out,
eh? And the clock will be set properly the next hour, anyway.
On 2012/01/20 16:23, Jim Hickstein wrote:
I have a Spectracom 8170 in the living room (who doesn't?), and a Western Union
time-service clock, a.k.a SWCC clock -- a nice one, in a 3-foot-high wood case.
I've been watching TV with this combination for years and years but never got
around to feeding a pulse from the 8170 to discipline the other one. Now that
Western Union no longer provides the service. :-) But it just begs to be done.
I did draw up a TTL circuit, once (on a napkin, naturally, which I have now
misplaced), that could live inside the 8170. I figured out the minimum number of
inputs needed to detect when the MM:SS LED displays said 00:00 (for one second).
It would close a relay, which could feed the winding-battery power to the
hour-set solenoid down a pair of wires from 10 feet away. But I never built it.
A little over a year ago the TS clock was getting gummy and free-running slower
and slower, so I sent it to the clock hospital. It's back and free-running
nicely, so maybe it's finally time I did this. Anyone got a better idea than my
little TTL circuit, on a breadboard inside the 8170? I'd like to get it across
the rear panel without cutting a new hole, if I can avoid it. But maybe the
right connector would do. Another time-code receiver in the TS clock, e.g. a GPS
module that provides a relay closure for 1 second on the hour (if such exists)
might be neater. But the living room faces north.
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