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Re: [PUP] Guns onboard (Bob Austin)

DO
dennis o'connor
Fri, Mar 4, 2005 1:46 PM

Bob's experiences seem to exceed the norm, probably due to more miles
under the keel in third country parts of the world than most boaters...
I am not going to take a position for or against firearms on board,
that is up to you individually to decide... But, let me offer a
suggestion for those who may consider having weapons on board that may
be inconvenient or illegal if found...

Build in a gun compartment into the boat hull, engine room bulkhead,
interior wall, etc... The compartment opening to be covered with a thin
layer of fiberglass and resin and then painted or otherwise covered so
that rubbing a hand over it, or shining a light will not reveal what is
behind the surface...  Also, it is best to have a layer of dense foam
wadded behind the fiberglass skin so that it doesn't sound hollow when
tapped...  A single fiberglass layer is easily breached with a blunt
object, or even a determined fist, if push comes to shove...  (actually
the best one I have seen was a large pipe going across an engine room,
clearly marked as a sewage line and festooned with divertor valves -
but there was an extra function if you knew it.)

Obviously have repair materials on board to replace and repaint the
skin afterwards... Also, design the compartment airtight, and toss in a
bag of dessicant (fresh out of the oven) when it is glassed over...
The gun(s) to be well sprayed with LPS #3 Rust Inhibitor, again
obviously...

Next, pay attention to Bob's excellent advice and take a combat
training course... You may discover that having a gun is not what you
really want once exposed to realistic combat training - this is a very
common reaction after the first ime through the darkened house scenario
<let me outta here>...  This can be life saving information as a gun in
the hands of the frightened or inept person is a sure recipe for
disaster, as Bob pointed out...  I will not beat on this, but if you
have the slightest hesitation about blowing a hole through someone, DO
NOT have a gun on board, as it will be taken away and used by persons
who have no qualms about killing YOU...

Lastly, if you choose to have a gun let me urge you to have a carbine
style - i.e.  short - rifle in a smaller caliber - either in lever
action (my choice) or a semi automatic like an AR15...  Research has
proven that the carbine style rifle is the best home defense weapon,
head and shoulders better than either a hand gun or a shot gun...  It
points instinctively, has light recoil so you, or the wife, won't
flinch, and for our purposes has the range to stand off an attacking
boat...

Lastly, once the gun has been fired, whether you hit someone or not,
turn 90 degrees towards the open sea, push the throttles forward, and
Like Jesse James get the flock out of Dodge;  in most countries of this
world the greater threat than the pirates is the local police - get out
of their jurisdiction...  Don't stand around mumbling about clearing
customs, your fuel problem, or water, or food, just get out of there
even if you have to beg supplies from a passing freighter later...

Cheers  ...  denny


Mailblocks - A Better Way to Do Email
http://about.mailblocks.com/info

Bob's experiences seem to exceed the norm, probably due to more miles under the keel in third country parts of the world than most boaters... I am not going to take a position for or against firearms on board, that is up to you individually to decide... But, let me offer a suggestion for those who may consider having weapons on board that may be inconvenient or illegal if found... Build in a gun compartment into the boat hull, engine room bulkhead, interior wall, etc... The compartment opening to be covered with a thin layer of fiberglass and resin and then painted or otherwise covered so that rubbing a hand over it, or shining a light will not reveal what is behind the surface... Also, it is best to have a layer of dense foam wadded behind the fiberglass skin so that it doesn't sound hollow when tapped... A single fiberglass layer is easily breached with a blunt object, or even a determined fist, if push comes to shove... (actually the best one I have seen was a large pipe going across an engine room, clearly marked as a sewage line and festooned with divertor valves - but there was an extra function if you knew it.) Obviously have repair materials on board to replace and repaint the skin afterwards... Also, design the compartment airtight, and toss in a bag of dessicant (fresh out of the oven) when it is glassed over... The gun(s) to be well sprayed with LPS #3 Rust Inhibitor, again obviously... Next, pay attention to Bob's excellent advice and take a combat training course... You may discover that having a gun is not what you really want once exposed to realistic combat training - this is a very common reaction after the first ime through the darkened house scenario <let me outta here>... This can be life saving information as a gun in the hands of the frightened or inept person is a sure recipe for disaster, as Bob pointed out... I will not beat on this, but if you have the slightest hesitation about blowing a hole through someone, DO NOT have a gun on board, as it will be taken away and used by persons who have no qualms about killing YOU... Lastly, if you choose to have a gun let me urge you to have a carbine style - i.e. short - rifle in a smaller caliber - either in lever action (my choice) or a semi automatic like an AR15... Research has proven that the carbine style rifle is the best home defense weapon, head and shoulders better than either a hand gun or a shot gun... It points instinctively, has light recoil so you, or the wife, won't flinch, and for our purposes has the range to stand off an attacking boat... Lastly, once the gun has been fired, whether you hit someone or not, turn 90 degrees towards the open sea, push the throttles forward, and Like Jesse James get the flock out of Dodge; in most countries of this world the greater threat than the pirates is the local police - get out of their jurisdiction... Don't stand around mumbling about clearing customs, your fuel problem, or water, or food, just get out of there even if you have to beg supplies from a passing freighter later... Cheers ... denny ---------------------------------------------- Mailblocks - A Better Way to Do Email http://about.mailblocks.com/info
D
dwbauer
Fri, Mar 4, 2005 2:13 PM

I'm the newbie here, so please pardon the intrusion, specially on this
subject. I think I possess all the qualifications of carrying. I went
through a weeks course, test, shoot allot, etc. I have a concealed carry
permit for my home state. I think there are reciprocal agreements between
allot of states, (more every year). My permit is now up for renewal,
(Another 3 years). I plan to boat in Texas, Louisiana, and Florida, which
the permit is legal in all these states. I think I'll fill that paper work
out this weekend. Never going where it's cold so Mass is out anyway. All the
points are well taken and stored in the memory banks.
Thanks; Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "dennis o'connor" k8do@mailblocks.com
To: passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 8:46 AM
Subject: Re: [PUP] Guns onboard (Bob Austin)

Bob's experiences seem to exceed the norm, probably due to more miles
under the keel in third country parts of the world than most boaters...
I am not going to take a position for or against firearms on board,
that is up to you individually to decide... But, let me offer a
suggestion for those who may consider having weapons on board that may
be inconvenient or illegal if found...

Build in a gun compartment into the boat hull, engine room bulkhead,
interior wall, etc... The compartment opening to be covered with a thin
layer of fiberglass and resin and then painted or otherwise covered so
that rubbing a hand over it, or shining a light will not reveal what is
behind the surface...  Also, it is best to have a layer of dense foam
wadded behind the fiberglass skin so that it doesn't sound hollow when
tapped...  A single fiberglass layer is easily breached with a blunt
object, or even a determined fist, if push comes to shove...  (actually
the best one I have seen was a large pipe going across an engine room,
clearly marked as a sewage line and festooned with divertor valves -
but there was an extra function if you knew it.)

Obviously have repair materials on board to replace and repaint the
skin afterwards... Also, design the compartment airtight, and toss in a
bag of dessicant (fresh out of the oven) when it is glassed over...
The gun(s) to be well sprayed with LPS #3 Rust Inhibitor, again
obviously...

Next, pay attention to Bob's excellent advice and take a combat
training course... You may discover that having a gun is not what you
really want once exposed to realistic combat training - this is a very
common reaction after the first ime through the darkened house scenario
<let me outta here>...  This can be life saving information as a gun in
the hands of the frightened or inept person is a sure recipe for
disaster, as Bob pointed out...  I will not beat on this, but if you
have the slightest hesitation about blowing a hole through someone, DO
NOT have a gun on board, as it will be taken away and used by persons
who have no qualms about killing YOU...

Lastly, if you choose to have a gun let me urge you to have a carbine
style - i.e.  short - rifle in a smaller caliber - either in lever
action (my choice) or a semi automatic like an AR15...  Research has
proven that the carbine style rifle is the best home defense weapon,
head and shoulders better than either a hand gun or a shot gun...  It
points instinctively, has light recoil so you, or the wife, won't
flinch, and for our purposes has the range to stand off an attacking
boat...

Lastly, once the gun has been fired, whether you hit someone or not,
turn 90 degrees towards the open sea, push the throttles forward, and
Like Jesse James get the flock out of Dodge;  in most countries of this
world the greater threat than the pirates is the local police - get out
of their jurisdiction...  Don't stand around mumbling about clearing
customs, your fuel problem, or water, or food, just get out of there
even if you have to beg supplies from a passing freighter later...

Cheers  ...  denny


Mailblocks - A Better Way to Do Email
http://about.mailblocks.com/info


Passagemaking-Under-Power Mailing List

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I'm the newbie here, so please pardon the intrusion, specially on this subject. I think I possess all the qualifications of carrying. I went through a weeks course, test, shoot allot, etc. I have a concealed carry permit for my home state. I think there are reciprocal agreements between allot of states, (more every year). My permit is now up for renewal, (Another 3 years). I plan to boat in Texas, Louisiana, and Florida, which the permit is legal in all these states. I think I'll fill that paper work out this weekend. Never going where it's cold so Mass is out anyway. All the points are well taken and stored in the memory banks. Thanks; Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "dennis o'connor" <k8do@mailblocks.com> To: <passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 8:46 AM Subject: Re: [PUP] Guns onboard (Bob Austin) > > > Bob's experiences seem to exceed the norm, probably due to more miles > under the keel in third country parts of the world than most boaters... > I am not going to take a position for or against firearms on board, > that is up to you individually to decide... But, let me offer a > suggestion for those who may consider having weapons on board that may > be inconvenient or illegal if found... > > Build in a gun compartment into the boat hull, engine room bulkhead, > interior wall, etc... The compartment opening to be covered with a thin > layer of fiberglass and resin and then painted or otherwise covered so > that rubbing a hand over it, or shining a light will not reveal what is > behind the surface... Also, it is best to have a layer of dense foam > wadded behind the fiberglass skin so that it doesn't sound hollow when > tapped... A single fiberglass layer is easily breached with a blunt > object, or even a determined fist, if push comes to shove... (actually > the best one I have seen was a large pipe going across an engine room, > clearly marked as a sewage line and festooned with divertor valves - > but there was an extra function if you knew it.) > > Obviously have repair materials on board to replace and repaint the > skin afterwards... Also, design the compartment airtight, and toss in a > bag of dessicant (fresh out of the oven) when it is glassed over... > The gun(s) to be well sprayed with LPS #3 Rust Inhibitor, again > obviously... > > Next, pay attention to Bob's excellent advice and take a combat > training course... You may discover that having a gun is not what you > really want once exposed to realistic combat training - this is a very > common reaction after the first ime through the darkened house scenario > <let me outta here>... This can be life saving information as a gun in > the hands of the frightened or inept person is a sure recipe for > disaster, as Bob pointed out... I will not beat on this, but if you > have the slightest hesitation about blowing a hole through someone, DO > NOT have a gun on board, as it will be taken away and used by persons > who have no qualms about killing YOU... > > Lastly, if you choose to have a gun let me urge you to have a carbine > style - i.e. short - rifle in a smaller caliber - either in lever > action (my choice) or a semi automatic like an AR15... Research has > proven that the carbine style rifle is the best home defense weapon, > head and shoulders better than either a hand gun or a shot gun... It > points instinctively, has light recoil so you, or the wife, won't > flinch, and for our purposes has the range to stand off an attacking > boat... > > Lastly, once the gun has been fired, whether you hit someone or not, > turn 90 degrees towards the open sea, push the throttles forward, and > Like Jesse James get the flock out of Dodge; in most countries of this > world the greater threat than the pirates is the local police - get out > of their jurisdiction... Don't stand around mumbling about clearing > customs, your fuel problem, or water, or food, just get out of there > even if you have to beg supplies from a passing freighter later... > > Cheers ... denny > > ---------------------------------------------- > Mailblocks - A Better Way to Do Email > http://about.mailblocks.com/info > > _______________________________________________ > Passagemaking-Under-Power Mailing List > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.0 - Release Date: 2/25/2005 > >
KR
Kevin Redden
Fri, Mar 4, 2005 2:46 PM

-----Original Message-----
................I plan to boat in Texas, Louisiana, and Florida, which
the permit is legal in all these states.

The original question, "for those who have cruised outside of U.S. waters",
regarded whether or not to carry firearms while passagemaking. The PUP list is
devoted to the realm of passagemaking, and not to somewhat-local cruising. The
subject of firearms as relevant to stateside carriage, has been exhaustively
covered elsewhere.

Posts like Bob Austin's gave very interesting first hand information about the
subject relevant to long distance multi-national passagemaking. I hope this
thread stays with that same spirit.

Kevin Redden

> -----Original Message----- > ................I plan to boat in Texas, Louisiana, and Florida, which > the permit is legal in all these states. The original question, "for those who have cruised outside of U.S. waters", regarded whether or not to carry firearms while passagemaking. The PUP list is devoted to the realm of passagemaking, and not to somewhat-local cruising. The subject of firearms as relevant to stateside carriage, has been exhaustively covered elsewhere. Posts like Bob Austin's gave very interesting first hand information about the subject relevant to long distance multi-national passagemaking. I hope this thread stays with that same spirit. Kevin Redden
HW
Hal Wyman
Fri, Mar 4, 2005 3:42 PM

My experience with international travel is not quite as extensive as Bob
Austin -- I have never had to show a weapon.  But I will outline my
experience with port officials.

My first international trip was from Maine to Seattle via Bermuda, the
entire Eastern Caribbean, the ABC islands, Panama and the Pacific Coast.  In
Bermuda, my first stop, the officials were satisfied with my locker -- the
weapons (including flare gun) were placed in the locker and they took the
key for the duration.  (Little did they know that I had a second key!)
Quite a few countries, Antigua and the French islands come to mind, noted
serial numbers and ammunition quantities on the customs entry form.  The
BVIs and Trinidad took the weapons ashore and returned them when I checked
out without hassle.  In the BVIs I checked in at Jost Van Dyke and the agent
there had them transported to Roadtown, which actually was more convenient
for me when I eventually checked out.  Interestingly, St. Kitts didn't
bother but later when I returned to Nevis (part of the same country) they
took the weapons.  I suspect it was because Princess Diana was on the island
on holiday.

On the Nordhavn Rally I was one of just a few boats that declared weapons.
This time in Bermuda the agent applied a seal to my gun locker, which was
also locked.  They didn't bother to check the seal when I departed.  The
Azores merely made a note as I recall.  I can't remember what happened in
Gibraltar but if I recall correctly they noted that the Bermuda seal was
still intact.  That got me into the EC where the boat sits today.

My normal reply when asked if I have weapons on board is to say "Of course,
I'm an American!"  This usually got a laugh.

Hal

[This E-mail was scanned for viruses.]

My experience with international travel is not quite as extensive as Bob Austin -- I have never had to show a weapon. But I will outline my experience with port officials. My first international trip was from Maine to Seattle via Bermuda, the entire Eastern Caribbean, the ABC islands, Panama and the Pacific Coast. In Bermuda, my first stop, the officials were satisfied with my locker -- the weapons (including flare gun) were placed in the locker and they took the key for the duration. (Little did they know that I had a second key!) Quite a few countries, Antigua and the French islands come to mind, noted serial numbers and ammunition quantities on the customs entry form. The BVIs and Trinidad took the weapons ashore and returned them when I checked out without hassle. In the BVIs I checked in at Jost Van Dyke and the agent there had them transported to Roadtown, which actually was more convenient for me when I eventually checked out. Interestingly, St. Kitts didn't bother but later when I returned to Nevis (part of the same country) they took the weapons. I suspect it was because Princess Diana was on the island on holiday. On the Nordhavn Rally I was one of just a few boats that declared weapons. This time in Bermuda the agent applied a seal to my gun locker, which was also locked. They didn't bother to check the seal when I departed. The Azores merely made a note as I recall. I can't remember what happened in Gibraltar but if I recall correctly they noted that the Bermuda seal was still intact. That got me into the EC where the boat sits today. My normal reply when asked if I have weapons on board is to say "Of course, I'm an American!" This usually got a laugh. Hal [This E-mail was scanned for viruses.]