Empathy List Archives

JH

Jim Healy

Tue, May 26, 2015 8:04 PM

Bob,

This post's content "softened" at the request of Bill Donovan, who I greatly admire and respect.

I was born and raised in New York State. I was educated in NYS, and I have sons and grandchildren living in NYS today. During the "decades of struggle" during which GE "tied up the case for years," I lived and worked and raised my children in the Mid-Hudson Valley, just miles from Ft. Edward. By the time my kinds graduated high school in the Catskills in the late 1980s, the PCBs at Ft. Edward were well entombed by naturally occurring sediment deposits and in absolutely no danger of being "stirred up by superstorm "Sandy." The upper Hudson had largely recovered from the errors of the 1940s and 1950s at Ft. Edward, and the NYS Health Department had eased the "Do Not Eat" restrictions they had put on river fish (over mercury, not PCBs) in the 1960s. Water clarity had recovered (Zebra mussels aren't all bad), and bacteria levels were well within Federal Drinking Water standards for surface water systems.

Nevertheless, the NYS DEC ignored the science, and the resulting political pressure forced GE to dredge. GE, after all, had "deep pockets" and "deserved" to pay that cost. And they dredged. They have done a great job - AT ENORMOUS EXPENSE. The pre-dredging concentrations of PCBs suspended in the river effluvium are up, but not a lot. Human exposure is - and always was - low. Virtually no drinking water is drawn from the lower Hudson. South and West of Albany, NY, the Catskill Mountain watershed has 5 large reservoirs - the Ashokan and Peapacton being the largest, dating back to the 1910 - 1920 period. The reservoir system provides the bulk of drinking water (raw, unfiltered, untreated surface water) to most lower Hudson Valley communities and to all of NYC. I am aware of cancer clusters in the valley due to the use of Agent Orange to defoliate the thruway right-of-way, but none from PCBs in the river.

Now that the river has been disturbed at Ft. Edward, however questionable that original decision, it makes some sense to complete the Ft. Edward project. However, I continue to believe that extending dredging to the still-undisturbed sediments that have been thoroughly entombed by Mother Nature would not be a good thing, is not supported by available science, is not a financially responsible choice, and is not a short or long term benefit to the region. In short, not aligned with the preferences of the NYT editorial board.

There is far more "politics" than "science" here; common with environmental "causes." Once north of the city, the Hudson Valley is a truly magnificent landscape. But, NYS is largely governed by politicians elected by emotional masses without any sense of the science or societal costs.

Jim

Peg and Jim Healy aboard Sanctuary, currently at Deltaville, VA
http://gilwellbear.wordpress.com http://gilwellbear.wordpress.com/
Monk 36 Hull #132
MMSI #367042570
AGLCA #3767
MTOA #3436

Bob, This post's content "softened" at the request of Bill Donovan, who I greatly admire and respect. I was born and raised in New York State. I was educated in NYS, and I have sons and grandchildren living in NYS today. During the "decades of struggle" during which GE "tied up the case for years," I lived and worked and raised my children in the Mid-Hudson Valley, just miles from Ft. Edward. By the time my kinds graduated high school in the Catskills in the late 1980s, the PCBs at Ft. Edward were well entombed by naturally occurring sediment deposits and in absolutely no danger of being "stirred up by superstorm "Sandy." The upper Hudson had largely recovered from the errors of the 1940s and 1950s at Ft. Edward, and the NYS Health Department had eased the "Do Not Eat" restrictions they had put on river fish (over mercury, not PCBs) in the 1960s. Water clarity had recovered (Zebra mussels aren't all bad), and bacteria levels were well within Federal Drinking Water standards for surface water systems. Nevertheless, the NYS DEC ignored the science, and the resulting political pressure forced GE to dredge. GE, after all, had "deep pockets" and "deserved" to pay that cost. And they dredged. They have done a great job - AT ENORMOUS EXPENSE. The pre-dredging concentrations of PCBs suspended in the river effluvium are up, but not a lot. Human exposure is - and always was - low. Virtually no drinking water is drawn from the lower Hudson. South and West of Albany, NY, the Catskill Mountain watershed has 5 large reservoirs - the Ashokan and Peapacton being the largest, dating back to the 1910 - 1920 period. The reservoir system provides the bulk of drinking water (raw, unfiltered, untreated surface water) to most lower Hudson Valley communities and to all of NYC. I am aware of cancer clusters in the valley due to the use of Agent Orange to defoliate the thruway right-of-way, but none from PCBs in the river. Now that the river has been disturbed at Ft. Edward, however questionable that original decision, it makes some sense to complete the Ft. Edward project. However, I continue to believe that extending dredging to the still-undisturbed sediments that have been thoroughly entombed by Mother Nature would not be a good thing, is not supported by available science, is not a financially responsible choice, and is not a short or long term benefit to the region. In short, not aligned with the preferences of the NYT editorial board. There is far more "politics" than "science" here; common with environmental "causes." Once north of the city, the Hudson Valley is a truly magnificent landscape. But, NYS is largely governed by politicians elected by emotional masses without any sense of the science or societal costs. Jim Peg and Jim Healy aboard Sanctuary, currently at Deltaville, VA http://gilwellbear.wordpress.com <http://gilwellbear.wordpress.com/> Monk 36 Hull #132 MMSI #367042570 AGLCA #3767 MTOA #3436

JE

Jim Elsevier

Tue, May 26, 2015 8:55 PM

There you go----bringing common sense and facts into the discussion-- how dare you!
From: Jim Healy gilwellbear@gmail.com
To: great-loop@lists.trawlering.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2015 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: GL: Decision Time on the Hudson

Bob,

This post's content "softened" at the request of Bill Donovan, who I greatly admire and respect.

I was born and raised in New York State. I was educated in NYS, and I have sons and grandchildren living in NYS today. During the "decades of struggle" during which GE "tied up the case for years," I lived and worked and raised my children in the Mid-Hudson Valley, just miles from Ft. Edward. By the time my kinds graduated high school in the Catskills in the late 1980s, the PCBs at Ft. Edward were well entombed by naturally occurring sediment deposits and in absolutely no danger of being "stirred up by superstorm "Sandy." The upper Hudson had largely recovered from the errors of the 1940s and 1950s at Ft. Edward, and the NYS Health Department had eased the "Do Not Eat" restrictions they had put on river fish (over mercury, not PCBs) in the 1960s. Water clarity had recovered (Zebra mussels aren't all bad), and bacteria levels were well within Federal Drinking Water standards for surface water systems.

Nevertheless, the NYS DEC ignored the science, and the resulting political pressure forced GE to dredge. GE, after all, had "deep pockets" and "deserved" to pay that cost. And they dredged. They have done a great job - AT ENORMOUS EXPENSE. The pre-dredging concentrations of PCBs suspended in the river effluvium are up, but not a lot. Human exposure is - and always was - low. Virtually no drinking water is drawn from the lower Hudson. South and West of Albany, NY, the Catskill Mountain watershed has 5 large reservoirs - the Ashokan and Peapacton being the largest, dating back to the 1910 - 1920 period. The reservoir system provides the bulk of drinking water (raw, unfiltered, untreated surface water) to most lower Hudson Valley communities and to all of NYC. I am aware of cancer clusters in the valley due to the use of Agent Orange to defoliate the thruway right-of-way, but none from PCBs in the river.

Now that the river has been disturbed at Ft. Edward, however questionable that original decision, it makes some sense to complete the Ft. Edward project. However, I continue to believe that extending dredging to the still-undisturbed sediments that have been thoroughly entombed by Mother Nature would not be a good thing, is not supported by available science, is not a financially responsible choice, and is not a short or long term benefit to the region. In short, not aligned with the preferences of the NYT editorial board.

There is far more "politics" than "science" here; common with environmental "causes." Once north of the city, the Hudson Valley is a truly magnificent landscape. But, NYS is largely governed by politicians elected by emotional masses without any sense of the science or societal costs.

Jim

Peg and Jim Healy aboard Sanctuary, currently at Deltaville, VA
http://gilwellbear.wordpress.com http://gilwellbear.wordpress.com/
Monk 36 Hull #132
MMSI #367042570
AGLCA #3767
MTOA #3436

http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com

To modify your Great-Loop subscription options (change email address,
unsubscribe, etc.) go to: http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/options/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com

There you go----bringing common sense and facts into the discussion-- how dare you! From: Jim Healy <gilwellbear@gmail.com> To: great-loop@lists.trawlering.com Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2015 4:04 PM Subject: Re: GL: Decision Time on the Hudson Bob, This post's content "softened" at the request of Bill Donovan, who I greatly admire and respect. I was born and raised in New York State. I was educated in NYS, and I have sons and grandchildren living in NYS today. During the "decades of struggle" during which GE "tied up the case for years," I lived and worked and raised my children in the Mid-Hudson Valley, just miles from Ft. Edward. By the time my kinds graduated high school in the Catskills in the late 1980s, the PCBs at Ft. Edward were well entombed by naturally occurring sediment deposits and in absolutely no danger of being "stirred up by superstorm "Sandy." The upper Hudson had largely recovered from the errors of the 1940s and 1950s at Ft. Edward, and the NYS Health Department had eased the "Do Not Eat" restrictions they had put on river fish (over mercury, not PCBs) in the 1960s. Water clarity had recovered (Zebra mussels aren't all bad), and bacteria levels were well within Federal Drinking Water standards for surface water systems. Nevertheless, the NYS DEC ignored the science, and the resulting political pressure forced GE to dredge. GE, after all, had "deep pockets" and "deserved" to pay that cost. And they dredged. They have done a great job - AT ENORMOUS EXPENSE. The pre-dredging concentrations of PCBs suspended in the river effluvium are up, but not a lot. Human exposure is - and always was - low. Virtually no drinking water is drawn from the lower Hudson. South and West of Albany, NY, the Catskill Mountain watershed has 5 large reservoirs - the Ashokan and Peapacton being the largest, dating back to the 1910 - 1920 period. The reservoir system provides the bulk of drinking water (raw, unfiltered, untreated surface water) to most lower Hudson Valley communities and to all of NYC. I am aware of cancer clusters in the valley due to the use of Agent Orange to defoliate the thruway right-of-way, but none from PCBs in the river. Now that the river has been disturbed at Ft. Edward, however questionable that original decision, it makes some sense to complete the Ft. Edward project. However, I continue to believe that extending dredging to the still-undisturbed sediments that have been thoroughly entombed by Mother Nature would not be a good thing, is not supported by available science, is not a financially responsible choice, and is not a short or long term benefit to the region. In short, not aligned with the preferences of the NYT editorial board. There is far more "politics" than "science" here; common with environmental "causes." Once north of the city, the Hudson Valley is a truly magnificent landscape. But, NYS is largely governed by politicians elected by emotional masses without any sense of the science or societal costs. Jim Peg and Jim Healy aboard Sanctuary, currently at Deltaville, VA http://gilwellbear.wordpress.com <http://gilwellbear.wordpress.com/> Monk 36 Hull #132 MMSI #367042570 AGLCA #3767 MTOA #3436 _______________________________________________ http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com To modify your Great-Loop subscription options (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) go to: http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/options/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com

JP

joseph.pica@gmail.com

Tue, May 26, 2015 10:10 PM

Well said Jim...I agree.

Joe Pica
M/V Carolyn Ann GH N-37
http://carolynann-n37.blogspot.com/
MTOA#3813, AGLCA #5485

On May 26, 2015, at 4:04 PM, Jim Healy gilwellbear@gmail.com wrote:

Bob,

This post's content "softened" at the request of Bill Donovan, who I greatly admire and respect.

I was born and raised in New York State. I was educated in NYS, and I have sons and grandchildren living in NYS today. During the "decades of struggle" during which GE "tied up the case for years," I lived and worked and raised my children in the Mid-Hudson Valley, just miles from Ft. Edward. By the time my kinds graduated high school in the Catskills in the late 1980s, the PCBs at Ft. Edward were well entombed by naturally occurring sediment deposits and in absolutely no danger of being "stirred up by superstorm "Sandy." The upper Hudson had largely recovered from the errors of the 1940s and 1950s at Ft. Edward, and the NYS Health Department had eased the "Do Not Eat" restrictions they had put on river fish (over mercury, not PCBs) in the 1960s. Water clarity had recovered (Zebra mussels aren't all bad), and bacteria levels were well within Federal Drinking Water standards for surface water systems.

Nevertheless, the NYS DEC ignored the science, and the resulting political pressure forced GE to dredge. GE, after all, had "deep pockets" and "deserved" to pay that cost. And they dredged. They have done a great job - AT ENORMOUS EXPENSE. The pre-dredging concentrations of PCBs suspended in the river effluvium are up, but not a lot. Human exposure is - and always was - low. Virtually no drinking water is drawn from the lower Hudson. South and West of Albany, NY, the Catskill Mountain watershed has 5 large reservoirs - the Ashokan and Peapacton being the largest, dating back to the 1910 - 1920 period. The reservoir system provides the bulk of drinking water (raw, unfiltered, untreated surface water) to most lower Hudson Valley communities and to all of NYC. I am aware of cancer clusters in the valley due to the use of Agent Orange to defoliate the thruway right-of-way, but none from PCBs in the river.

Now that the river has been disturbed at Ft. Edward, however questionable that original decision, it makes some sense to complete the Ft. Edward project. However, I continue to believe that extending dredging to the still-undisturbed sediments that have been thoroughly entombed by Mother Nature would not be a good thing, is not supported by available science, is not a financially responsible choice, and is not a short or long term benefit to the region. In short, not aligned with the preferences of the NYT editorial board.

There is far more "politics" than "science" here; common with environmental "causes." Once north of the city, the Hudson Valley is a truly magnificent landscape. But, NYS is largely governed by politicians elected by emotional masses without any sense of the science or societal costs.

Jim

Peg and Jim Healy aboard Sanctuary, currently at Deltaville, VA
http://gilwellbear.wordpress.com http://gilwellbear.wordpress.com/
Monk 36 Hull #132
MMSI #367042570
AGLCA #3767
MTOA #3436

http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com

To modify your Great-Loop subscription options (change email address,
unsubscribe, etc.) go to: http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/options/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com

Well said Jim...I agree. Joe Pica M/V Carolyn Ann GH N-37 http://carolynann-n37.blogspot.com/ MTOA#3813, AGLCA #5485 > On May 26, 2015, at 4:04 PM, Jim Healy <gilwellbear@gmail.com> wrote: > > Bob, > > This post's content "softened" at the request of Bill Donovan, who I greatly admire and respect. > > I was born and raised in New York State. I was educated in NYS, and I have sons and grandchildren living in NYS today. During the "decades of struggle" during which GE "tied up the case for years," I lived and worked and raised my children in the Mid-Hudson Valley, just miles from Ft. Edward. By the time my kinds graduated high school in the Catskills in the late 1980s, the PCBs at Ft. Edward were well entombed by naturally occurring sediment deposits and in absolutely no danger of being "stirred up by superstorm "Sandy." The upper Hudson had largely recovered from the errors of the 1940s and 1950s at Ft. Edward, and the NYS Health Department had eased the "Do Not Eat" restrictions they had put on river fish (over mercury, not PCBs) in the 1960s. Water clarity had recovered (Zebra mussels aren't all bad), and bacteria levels were well within Federal Drinking Water standards for surface water systems. > > Nevertheless, the NYS DEC ignored the science, and the resulting political pressure forced GE to dredge. GE, after all, had "deep pockets" and "deserved" to pay that cost. And they dredged. They have done a great job - AT ENORMOUS EXPENSE. The pre-dredging concentrations of PCBs suspended in the river effluvium are up, but not a lot. Human exposure is - and always was - low. Virtually no drinking water is drawn from the lower Hudson. South and West of Albany, NY, the Catskill Mountain watershed has 5 large reservoirs - the Ashokan and Peapacton being the largest, dating back to the 1910 - 1920 period. The reservoir system provides the bulk of drinking water (raw, unfiltered, untreated surface water) to most lower Hudson Valley communities and to all of NYC. I am aware of cancer clusters in the valley due to the use of Agent Orange to defoliate the thruway right-of-way, but none from PCBs in the river. > > Now that the river has been disturbed at Ft. Edward, however questionable that original decision, it makes some sense to complete the Ft. Edward project. However, I continue to believe that extending dredging to the still-undisturbed sediments that have been thoroughly entombed by Mother Nature would not be a good thing, is not supported by available science, is not a financially responsible choice, and is not a short or long term benefit to the region. In short, not aligned with the preferences of the NYT editorial board. > > There is far more "politics" than "science" here; common with environmental "causes." Once north of the city, the Hudson Valley is a truly magnificent landscape. But, NYS is largely governed by politicians elected by emotional masses without any sense of the science or societal costs. > > Jim > > Peg and Jim Healy aboard Sanctuary, currently at Deltaville, VA > http://gilwellbear.wordpress.com <http://gilwellbear.wordpress.com/> > Monk 36 Hull #132 > MMSI #367042570 > AGLCA #3767 > MTOA #3436 > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com > > To modify your Great-Loop subscription options (change email address, > unsubscribe, etc.) go to: http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/options/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com