Georgs, We apologize in advance for the length of this post. As promised a couple of weeks ago we would share our thinking as to why we selected the Aventure 460 Liveaboard Cruiser as opposed to the Endeavour 44 after we eliminated the Lagoon 43. It's important for all to remember that this was the culmination of our 2 year research effort for the perfect power catamaran in order to cruise the great loop and liveaboard within what we wanted to spend. As previously mentioned, we studied hundreds of articles and did the extensive boat show thing. So now we were down to comparing two boats. Which one to buy? The Aventure 460 Liveaboard or the Endeavour 44 Trawlercat? To help decide we drew up a list of items to compare. The list included safety, mechanical, aesthetic, width and other issues. We were in direct communication with both builders over the final months. Bob Vincent from Endeavour Power Catamaran went out of his way to accomodate our requests for visits to his factory in Clearwater and made arrangements to conduct trials on a new Endeavour 44 Trawlercat that had recently been sold. We took him up on it. Tim Jordan, project director/builder from Aventure Power Catamaran went one further. Although we had visited another Aventure 460 in Cleveland, we could not take it out for trials because of ice on the lake. So, Tim solved the problem. He invited my wife and I to fly down to South Africa to see the factory where a new Ave 460 was being built and to go out and sea trial on an Aventure 460 near Capetown. With the offer, "If you sign a contract with us, we'll pay all your travel expenses!!". We thought about this. But first some comparisons. What we wanted: Hull: We really liked the hull bottom of the Trawlercat 44 design since we were told it had a "tunnel" to protect the props and prevent wrapping crab/lobster lines. Months later, after our final decision, we heard of a problem with one Trawlercat 44 getting a piece of wood/tree trapped in the tunnel and damaging the prop and underbody. It had to be hawled for repair. However, this did not enter our decision as you will see later. On the Ave 460 we looked at and liked the two hard splines running the length of both sides of the Ave 460 to displace wave spray. Not available on the Endeavour 44 from what we could tell. We liked the twin skegs which protect the Ave 460 props while keeping the vessel draft at 3.5 feet. On the Ave 460 the rudders are made of stainless steel. On the Trawlercat 44, reinforced FRP fiberglass. Note: FRP does not suffer from electrolysis but we have had no problem with the Stainless Steel rudders in almost 7900 miles. From an aesthetic viewpoint we did not like the almost vertical hull sides and vertical bow of the Trawlercat 44 and in fairness, we do not know how the Trawlercat performs in heavier seas. Length: No contest: The Endeavour 44 Trawlercat had LWL of about 41' and LOA of about 43' as best as I can remember. The Aventure 460 has LWL of 45' and LOA of about 48' which includes a 2' extended swim/boat platform. Additional 2' platform at no additional cost. Width: The Endeavour 44 had a width of 18' and the Aventure 460 with a width of 15 1/2 ft. We were a little concerned with the Endeavour 44's width for dockage reasons as we stated in a previous post. Engines: No contest. The Aventure 460 came standard with a pair of 6LYA 370hp Yanmar turbo diesels. Larger engines were available for the Trawlercat 44 but at significant added cost but nothing approaching 370hp. The Aventure 460 operates smoothly and efficiently at Trawler speeds and equally on turbo speeds as we discussed earlier. Electronics: No contest. The Ave 460 included a complete Simrad package, CA 44 radar, chartplotter, autopilot etc. and I had it upgraded to include a second navigation station in the saloon as backup. We also had an ICOM 802 SSB/Ham system installed and the install cost for the copper plating, glassing and groundplate was very realistic. With Endeavour, we never got to this point. Windlass: No contest. The Ave 460 came standard with Maxwell 2200. This is almost overkill. I believe the Trawlercat 44 ground tackle was optional at that time and did not match the ground tackle haul capacity of the 2200. Ground Tackle: No contest. The Ave 460 came standard with a 45lb Davis anchor with 200 feet of chain and 200' of rode. And, the secondary back up system we were supplied with was an unbelievable 65lb CQR with 100' of chain and 200' of rode. Ground tackle was an additional cost on the Trawlercat and did not include a backup. Fire Extinguishers: The Ave 460 came standard with five (5) USCG approved fire extinguishers and four (4) engine fire suppression extinguishers. We assume, but don't remember, if the fire extinguishers on the Trawlercat were optional or not. Genset: No contest. The genset on the Endeavour 44 Trawler cat was an optional item. The Aventure 460 came equipped with an Italian 6KW generator and when I insisted, they replaced it with an ultra quite Northern lights 6.3 KW diesel generator that I wanted. Labeling: Most boat buyers don't pay much attention to this very important item. Many are fixated on the lines of the boat or the "Foo Foo" inside the cabin. I don't know about the Trawlercat labeling of their components and electrical system. On the Ave 460 Liveaboard each and every through hull, valve, major and minor pump and device has an epoxy attached label stating the name of the device is. This really helps the new boat owner understand what is going on. In addition, after the solar panel system size was determined the electrical engineer who integrated and supervised the installation prepared a complete wire terminated schematic for us. Each and every terminus on the boat is numbered and corresponds to terminus numbers on the schematic. Unbelievable! And it came with the boat at no extra charge! Space: No contest. The Ave 460 has a huge saloon with wrap around view, seating for six at saloon table and two at navigation bench. Has over 20 cherry storage cabinets in the saloon alone. Aft is a large cockpit with icemaker and lazarette. Above (at flybridge) is accessed by a protected set of antislip diamond pattern stairs with handolds (not ladder steps) and enters into a protected pilot house and comfortable seating for up to 10 people. Solar Panel system: A solar panel system was available as an option on both the Endeavour Trawlercat 44 and the Aventure 460. This was something we really wanted for safety (since it could also charge house and engine batteries)and also be used on extended cruises where we could not get shore power and we did not want to run the genset in those quiet anchorages. So it was now time to determine the size of the solar panel system needed for the vessel. I'm not an electrical engineer so I got on the web and started asking questions on how to go about this from a number of manufacturers of solar panels and inverter/charge controllers. They all said they needed information to determine possible solar panel sizes for each vessel. I was told I needed to get power consumption draw (load) figures from each builder for each electrical device on both the Trawlercat 44 and Aventure 460. The question I needed to get answered was, how much does each light (lamp), radio, TV, Satellite, head etc. etc. draw in amps when it is used. Once this info was obtained, it is simple to determine the proper house battery bank size range, lengths of time at nominal discharge use at standard 50-80 percent time downruns at various percent of 120 volt AC 12 volt DC device loads. Also from this information one can figure the number (and size) of each panel and cumulative optimum amp/hour charge rate for the diode protected panels. I could also determine if there was enough space to install the panels. I asked both builders to supply me with on board device amp load figures. At first Endeavour started to provide me with information. I needed only a few more figures from Endeavour and asked them for the figures. Suddenly I received an email from Endeavour and the message of his email... "Find yourself another builder." We never replied back to Endeavour after that email from them. We never told Aventure what happened until AFTER we had signed a contract with them. Aventure did not know what was going on and they continued to assist with all our requests and also worked closely with the contacts we had made stateside. The power panel system that was installed on the Ave 460 includes a 4 panel diode protected array feeding an optimum of 28 amps per hour to a 1200 amp house battery pack. The system has a 2000 watt inverter and charge regulator and the entire system is totally integrated with the engine 150 amp house battery alternator, the shore power and the Northern Lights Generator! with Endeavour will never know how close they came to having a contract with us since we were more than skeptical about trans-oceanic flight travel as the second war in Iraq had just begun. We contacted the US State Department and read the CIA reports on risks associated with Americans traveling to South Africa. They gave us a clean bill of health. We did not need to get shots etc. etc. We laugh as we look back at the events. Oh, by the way, even with our many add on's, and we had many, our final cost was $50K less than an Endeavour Trawlercat 44 with their add on's which could not even match what we had! Cost also included delivery to the US and a week of training by the builder himself. Now that's something to think about. There are many other comparison items we could speak to but this post is long enough. If there is interest we'll continue. There's a lot more to consider if you are new to power catamarans. Again we apologize for the length. Our motivation is to help other would be "power catamaran" owners through our experiences. Please note: Aventure no longer makes the Ave 460 Liveaboard. They now manufacture a boat that is 2' longer called the Aventure 485 as well as other shorter and longer models. You can contact them directly at http://www.aventure-catmaran.com The "Yum Yum" will leave Cape Coral for a diving and fishing cruise to the Dry Tortugas, travel to West Point and then up to the Chesapeak Bay for first annual "Cat's Meow" meeting. We believe the above information to be as accurate as possible but please remember this was two years ago and both Aventure and Endeavour have come out with new products and configurations that differ from what we have described. Best Regards, Pierre and Linda Barrette Aboard the "Yum Yum" 46' Aventure Powercatamaran

>We apologize in advance for the length of this post. Gosh, Pierre, no apologies needed. Thank you very much for taking the time to prepare such a thorough report. To balance the picture, I look forward to hearing comments from people who own or like the Endeavour TrawlerCat. --Georgs -- Georgs Kolesnikovs Power Catamaran World http://www.powercatamaranworld.com

Georgs, If any on the list would like info. on the ZETa Power Cats, have them look @ www.landsea.com<http://www.landsea.com/> Regards, Rich Petteys R Cat 32 Zeta La Conner, WA. ----- Original Message ----- From: Georgs Kolesnikovs<mailto:georgs@powercatamaranworld.com> To: Power Catamaran List<mailto:power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 10:26 AM Subject: Re: [PCW] Aventure 460 vs the Endeavor 44 Trawler cat >We apologize in advance for the length of this post. Gosh, Pierre, no apologies needed. Thank you very much for taking the time to prepare such a thorough report. To balance the picture, I look forward to hearing comments from people who own or like the Endeavour TrawlerCat. --Georgs -- Georgs Kolesnikovs Power Catamaran World http://www.powercatamaranworld.com<http://www.powercatamaranworld.com/> _______________________________________________ Power-Catamaran Mailing List