Nordhavn 40 and helm chair
I was reading about the Dashew boat in this months Passagemaking when a thought hit me. Done Dreamin is a 40' Nordhavn plying the worlds oceans. Dashew talks about how important it is to have good helm seating for ocean crossings. The 40' Nordhavn is generally not thought of as having enough room to put a good helm chair. This got me wondering how ocean friendly this boat would be? That led me to another question.
Dashew talks about having redundant autopilots. While I have a fairly simple autopilot in my Camano, I know there is one sea state it doesn't deal with very well at all. In a following sea the autopilot can not control the boat. I believe its the dynamics of the square stern and how it wallows off a wave. If I direct the boat I can anticipate the wave and start a correcting input even before the course has begun to change. Do larger ocean capable boats have much better autopilots capable of dealing with all ocean conditions (other than the worst of course)? Is a Krogen much more sea kindly that a Nordhavn because of their stern shapes? Does this sea kindly performance translate into differing requirements for an autopilot? Does everyone agree that having a completely redundant, installed autopilot is a requirement for an ocean capable boat, or are spares adequate? Thanks in advance for sharing your experience.
Scott Bulger, PUP List Administrator
Planning an Ocean voyage before turning 50 :)
--- scottebulger@comcast.net wrote:
Do larger ocean capable
boats have much better autopilots capable of dealing
with all ocean conditions (other than the worst of
course)?
When I built my Willard 40 Pilothouse, I specified an
oversized Raymarine autopilot. It is my opinmion that
when it comes to autopilots, bigger is definitely
better. I have experienced near gale conditions (35
knots of wind and 12 to 15 foot seas) for a 24 hour
period along the Oregon coast. Following seas were on
the starboard quarter during that period. The boat
tracked perfectly with just a slight yaw once in a
while that was corrected immediately by the autopilot.
The only time we touched the autopilot was to make a
course change to hit a waypoint. The point is,
install an oversize (hydraulic ram) autopilot, you
won't be sorry.
Is a Krogen much more sea kindly that a
Nordhavn because of their stern shapes?
In my opinion, the Willard 40 has the most seakindly
hull shape for open ocean work. The hull is somewhat
narrower for its given length. The stern is canoe
shaped and handles all sea condition better than the
more popular full displcement boats of that size
range.
Does this
sea kindly performance translate into differing
requirements for an autopilot?
Absolutely. "Square" shaped sterns are more difficult
to control in following seas.
Does everyone agree
that having a completely redundant, installed
autopilot is a requirement for an ocean capable
boat, or are spares adequate?
I suppose a redundant autopilot would be a "nice to
have" item. I don't have one. I suppose we could
make every item on the boat redundant, but that would
just take away from the cruising kitty. At this time
I don't plan on installing a back up autopilot.
With regards to a helm seat, The Willard 40 has zero
room for a freestanding helm seat. The pilothouse is
VERY compact. What we do have is a built-in helm
bench/pilot berth about 6'-6" long to port and a
built-in pilot seat to starboard. This seat is only
24" wide and is enclosed by the exterior bulkhead to
port and a high arm rest to starboard. This is a real
"butt hugger" seat. This seat is reserved for the
watch stander and they usually settle into this seat
and it is very snug and comfy and gives a great sense
of security. The helm wheel is on the centerline, so
there is no wheel in front of the pilot seat. However
there is a remote for the auto pilot, so you can sit
there and play with the buttons if you get bored. All
instrumentation (including radar and chart plotter) is
clearly visible from this seat. So far, has worked
just fine.
Patrick
Willard 40PH
ALOHA
San Pedro
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Helm Chairs: Our experience on AKAMA, a KK 48 Whaleback is that a helm seat
is desirable but not essential on a passagemaker, and we've done enough
passage making to know (we are currently in New Zealand). On coastal trips
we usually have someone in the helm seat, as it is the best place to see all
the action, and thus avoid bumping into something. On longer trips, the
usual way we use it is turned somewhat to starboard (the danger side of the
boat). Feet go up on the edge of the chart table <VBG>, seriously! When
docking and undocking we never sit...too much to do. On long passages, we
sometimes sit in the helm chair for variety, but usually run the boat from
the starboard corner of the settee; our rule is that you get up once an hour
and log all the gauges. We've got wireless remotes for the VHF, autopilot
and most of the nav instruments (RayMarine's new, larger wireless). In a
heavy sea we rarely use the helm chair. Although it is secure and only
about seven feet forward of the settee, the centre of pitch on AKAMA is
roughly on that settee. You'd be amazed how big a difference that short
distance makes in comfort. We make a nest of cushions for lateral support.
On night watch, we sometimes move to the helm chair, just to have some
variety and to help staying awake, but mostly we just walk around in the
pilothouse and behind the Portuguese bridge from time to time (our rule is
that nobody is allowed on the fore or boat decks unless there is a second
person present).
Autopilot: We have only one. For nearly 12 years it was a Coursemaster
(Aurstalian), which never failed, despite being far too small for the boat.
We fiddled with the controls for various sea states. Recently we upgraded
to a Raymarine S2G (it has a gyro). It can keep the boat too close to the
track for our liking (it is too 'busy'), so we've detuned it...simple to do.
Here's hoping that it never fails. We were cruising off the coast of
Borneo, en route to Papua New Guinea, with a guy in a sailboat when his AP
failed. He was actually considering turning back to Singapore to get it
fixed or replaced; that's how much we rely on the AP on passages. Luckily,
I was able to repair it for him (blown steering transistor). We use the AP
all the time, except in narrow channels and when docking and undocking. If
we were ever to build another boat, I'd consider not having a wheel, just
the AP and a joy stick.
Cheers,
Maurice & Louise-Ann
MV AKAMA
-----Original Message-----
From: scottebulger@comcast.net [mailto:scottebulger@comcast.net]
Sent: Sunday, 26 March 2006 02:38
To: passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com
Subject: [PUP] Nordhavn 40 and helm chair
I was reading about the Dashew boat in this months Passagemaking when a
thought hit me. Done Dreamin is a 40' Nordhavn plying the worlds oceans.
Dashew talks about how important it is to have good helm seating for ocean
crossings. The 40' Nordhavn is generally not thought of as having enough
room to put a good helm chair. This got me wondering how ocean friendly
this boat would be? That led me to another question.
Dashew talks about having redundant autopilots. While I have a fairly
simple autopilot in my Camano, I know there is one sea state it doesn't deal
with very well at all. In a following sea the autopilot can not control the
boat. I believe its the dynamics of the square stern and how it wallows off
a wave. If I direct the boat I can anticipate the wave and start a
correcting input even before the course has begun to change. Do larger
ocean capable boats have much better autopilots capable of dealing with all
ocean conditions (other than the worst of course)? Is a Krogen much more
sea kindly that a Nordhavn because of their stern shapes? Does this sea
kindly performance translate into differing requirements for an autopilot?
Does everyone agree that having a completely redundant, installed autopilot
is a requirement for an ocean capable boat, or are spares adequate? Thanks
in advance for sharing your experience.
Scott Bulger, PUP List Administrator
Planning an Ocean voyage before turning 50 :)
Passagemaking-Under-Power Mailing List
Helm chair: Agree with Maurice Nunas - good, but not
essential. But, if you have a helm chair, make sure
it's a good one with a big-diameter, heavy duty base
(Stidd, Pompano, etc). The cheaper ones with 3"
aluminium bases have no place in the pilothouse on a
passagemaker. If you cruise with 4 or more people
aboard, a helm chair free's-up the settee for a bunk
in rough weather when the salon is occupied with folks
attempting to sleep.
Spare A/P. Depends on how the boat is used. Crossing
an ocean, absolutely - especially shorthanded. A "hot"
spare A/P and radar (rather than just spare parts) are
not that expensive nor inconvenient to have aboard.
Combined, they are cheaper than a Stidd.
Peter
www.SeaSkills.com
Willard 36
San Francisco
--- scottebulger@comcast.net wrote:
I was reading about the Dashew boat in this months
Passagemaking when a thought hit me. Done Dreamin
is a 40' Nordhavn plying the worlds oceans. Dashew
talks about how important it is to have good helm
seating for ocean crossings. The 40' Nordhavn is
generally not thought of as having enough room to
put a good helm chair. This got me wondering how
ocean friendly this boat would be? That led me to
another question.
Dashew talks about having redundant autopilots.
While I have a fairly simple autopilot in my Camano,
I know there is one sea state it doesn't deal with
very well at all. In a following sea the autopilot
can not control the boat. I believe its the
dynamics of the square stern and how it wallows off
a wave. If I direct the boat I can anticipate the
wave and start a correcting input even before the
course has begun to change. Do larger ocean capable
boats have much better autopilots capable of dealing
with all ocean conditions (other than the worst of
course)? Is a Krogen much more sea kindly that a
Nordhavn because of their stern shapes? Does this
sea kindly performance translate into differing
requirements for an autopilot? Does everyone agree
that having a completely redundant, installed
autopilot is a requirement for an ocean capable
boat, or are spares adequate? Thanks in advance for
sharing your experience.
Scott Bulger, PUP List Administrator
Planning an Ocean voyage before turning 50 :)
Passagemaking-Under-Power Mailing List
=======================
Peter Pisciotta
415-902-8439
I bought a crewboat helm chair from a firm in Louisiana.
Huge pedestal tube, custom extra height (at no charge) for my Willard 40.
Nice looking in a commercial way. All aluminum is anodized silver and
cushioning is heavy naugahyde. Delivered from LA to New Bern, NC at around
$1000. If anyone is interested, I'll find the name and number of the
outfit - nice people.
Ron Rogers