DF
Dario Fertonani
Sun, Feb 15, 2015 3:35 AM
My Ettus board is the B210 model. On the host PC I'm using UHD built from
source, all running on Ubuntu 14.10 low latency.
My question is about the settling speed of the c++ API calls set_rx_freq
and set_rx_gain. Any documentation available on how long they take before
convergence to the desired value is achieved? The set_rx_freq call seems to
be very slow, which I can live with. The speed of set_rx_gain is much more
critical in my application and any information would help. My concern is
the time during which the IQ samples are unreliable because of settling
going on, whereas I'm not concerned with the delay between the command
request and the actual command execution in the RF chain.
Assuming the setting speed is good enough, I'd have a follow up question:
Does the c++ API provide a way to select when the gain change is applied?
My understanding so far is that those commands are only available in
asynchronous mode, unlike timed commands like recv.
Thanks,
Dario
My Ettus board is the B210 model. On the host PC I'm using UHD built from
source, all running on Ubuntu 14.10 low latency.
My question is about the settling speed of the c++ API calls set_rx_freq
and set_rx_gain. Any documentation available on how long they take before
convergence to the desired value is achieved? The set_rx_freq call seems to
be very slow, which I can live with. The speed of set_rx_gain is much more
critical in my application and any information would help. My concern is
the time during which the IQ samples are unreliable because of settling
going on, whereas I'm not concerned with the delay between the command
request and the actual command execution in the RF chain.
Assuming the setting speed is good enough, I'd have a follow up question:
Does the c++ API provide a way to select when the gain change is applied?
My understanding so far is that those commands are only available in
asynchronous mode, unlike timed commands like recv.
Thanks,
Dario
MW
Michael West
Tue, Feb 17, 2015 1:40 AM
Hi Dario,
The B210 does not support timed commands for frequency and gain setting, so
there is no way to control exactly when the gain is applied. For that, you
would have to use a USRP that supports timed commands (such as an N or X
series).
That said, the call to set the gain on the B210 does block so it is
probably safe to assume that when the call returns the gain has changed and
is settled. Assuming that, you can call get_time_now() before and after
setting the gain and simply discard all samples with receive timestamps
between the times. This allows you to ignore samples during the
transition, but controlling precisely when the gain gets applied is just
not possible.
Regards,
Michael E. West
On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 7:35 PM, Dario Fertonani via USRP-users <
usrp-users@lists.ettus.com> wrote:
My Ettus board is the B210 model. On the host PC I'm using UHD built from
source, all running on Ubuntu 14.10 low latency.
My question is about the settling speed of the c++ API calls set_rx_freq
and set_rx_gain. Any documentation available on how long they take before
convergence to the desired value is achieved? The set_rx_freq call seems to
be very slow, which I can live with. The speed of set_rx_gain is much more
critical in my application and any information would help. My concern is
the time during which the IQ samples are unreliable because of settling
going on, whereas I'm not concerned with the delay between the command
request and the actual command execution in the RF chain.
Assuming the setting speed is good enough, I'd have a follow up question:
Does the c++ API provide a way to select when the gain change is applied?
My understanding so far is that those commands are only available in
asynchronous mode, unlike timed commands like recv.
Thanks,
Dario
USRP-users mailing list
USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
Hi Dario,
The B210 does not support timed commands for frequency and gain setting, so
there is no way to control exactly when the gain is applied. For that, you
would have to use a USRP that supports timed commands (such as an N or X
series).
That said, the call to set the gain on the B210 does block so it is
probably safe to assume that when the call returns the gain has changed and
is settled. Assuming that, you can call get_time_now() before and after
setting the gain and simply discard all samples with receive timestamps
between the times. This allows you to ignore samples during the
transition, but controlling precisely when the gain gets applied is just
not possible.
Regards,
Michael E. West
On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 7:35 PM, Dario Fertonani via USRP-users <
usrp-users@lists.ettus.com> wrote:
> My Ettus board is the B210 model. On the host PC I'm using UHD built from
> source, all running on Ubuntu 14.10 low latency.
>
> My question is about the settling speed of the c++ API calls set_rx_freq
> and set_rx_gain. Any documentation available on how long they take before
> convergence to the desired value is achieved? The set_rx_freq call seems to
> be very slow, which I can live with. The speed of set_rx_gain is much more
> critical in my application and any information would help. My concern is
> the time during which the IQ samples are unreliable because of settling
> going on, whereas I'm not concerned with the delay between the command
> request and the actual command execution in the RF chain.
>
> Assuming the setting speed is good enough, I'd have a follow up question:
> Does the c++ API provide a way to select when the gain change is applied?
> My understanding so far is that those commands are only available in
> asynchronous mode, unlike timed commands like recv.
>
> Thanks,
> Dario
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> USRP-users mailing list
> USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
> http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
>
>
DF
Dario Fertonani
Tue, Feb 17, 2015 2:08 AM
Thank you Michael.
Can you also confirm/correct the following statement?
Calling set_rx_gain on the B210 doesn't merely scale the IQ samples in the
digital domain after all the damage in done, but rather acts at some point
before the final quantization.
Best regards,
Dario
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 5:40 PM, Michael West michael.west@ettus.com
wrote:
Hi Dario,
The B210 does not support timed commands for frequency and gain setting,
so there is no way to control exactly when the gain is applied. For that,
you would have to use a USRP that supports timed commands (such as an N or
X series).
That said, the call to set the gain on the B210 does block so it is
probably safe to assume that when the call returns the gain has changed and
is settled. Assuming that, you can call get_time_now() before and after
setting the gain and simply discard all samples with receive timestamps
between the times. This allows you to ignore samples during the
transition, but controlling precisely when the gain gets applied is just
not possible.
Regards,
Michael E. West
On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 7:35 PM, Dario Fertonani via USRP-users <
usrp-users@lists.ettus.com> wrote:
My Ettus board is the B210 model. On the host PC I'm using UHD built from
source, all running on Ubuntu 14.10 low latency.
My question is about the settling speed of the c++ API calls set_rx_freq
and set_rx_gain. Any documentation available on how long they take before
convergence to the desired value is achieved? The set_rx_freq call seems to
be very slow, which I can live with. The speed of set_rx_gain is much more
critical in my application and any information would help. My concern is
the time during which the IQ samples are unreliable because of settling
going on, whereas I'm not concerned with the delay between the command
request and the actual command execution in the RF chain.
Assuming the setting speed is good enough, I'd have a follow up question:
Does the c++ API provide a way to select when the gain change is applied?
My understanding so far is that those commands are only available in
asynchronous mode, unlike timed commands like recv.
Thanks,
Dario
USRP-users mailing list
USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
Thank you Michael.
Can you also confirm/correct the following statement?
Calling set_rx_gain on the B210 doesn't merely scale the IQ samples in the
digital domain after all the damage in done, but rather acts at some point
before the final quantization.
Best regards,
Dario
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 5:40 PM, Michael West <michael.west@ettus.com>
wrote:
> Hi Dario,
>
> The B210 does not support timed commands for frequency and gain setting,
> so there is no way to control exactly when the gain is applied. For that,
> you would have to use a USRP that supports timed commands (such as an N or
> X series).
>
> That said, the call to set the gain on the B210 does block so it is
> probably safe to assume that when the call returns the gain has changed and
> is settled. Assuming that, you can call get_time_now() before and after
> setting the gain and simply discard all samples with receive timestamps
> between the times. This allows you to ignore samples during the
> transition, but controlling precisely when the gain gets applied is just
> not possible.
>
> Regards,
> Michael E. West
>
> On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 7:35 PM, Dario Fertonani via USRP-users <
> usrp-users@lists.ettus.com> wrote:
>
>> My Ettus board is the B210 model. On the host PC I'm using UHD built from
>> source, all running on Ubuntu 14.10 low latency.
>>
>> My question is about the settling speed of the c++ API calls set_rx_freq
>> and set_rx_gain. Any documentation available on how long they take before
>> convergence to the desired value is achieved? The set_rx_freq call seems to
>> be very slow, which I can live with. The speed of set_rx_gain is much more
>> critical in my application and any information would help. My concern is
>> the time during which the IQ samples are unreliable because of settling
>> going on, whereas I'm not concerned with the delay between the command
>> request and the actual command execution in the RF chain.
>>
>> Assuming the setting speed is good enough, I'd have a follow up question:
>> Does the c++ API provide a way to select when the gain change is applied?
>> My understanding so far is that those commands are only available in
>> asynchronous mode, unlike timed commands like recv.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dario
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> USRP-users mailing list
>> USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
>> http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
>>
>>
>
MB
Martin Braun
Tue, Feb 17, 2015 10:21 AM
That is correct; an analog gain is applied. Note it is still possible to
"do damage" this way, e.g. by driving amps or ADC into saturation.
M
On 02/17/2015 03:08 AM, Dario Fertonani via USRP-users wrote:
Thank you Michael.
Can you also confirm/correct the following statement?
Calling set_rx_gain on the B210 doesn't merely scale the IQ samples in
the digital domain after all the damage in done, but rather acts at some
point before the final quantization.
Best regards,
Dario
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 5:40 PM, Michael West <michael.west@ettus.com
mailto:michael.west@ettus.com> wrote:
Hi Dario,
The B210 does not support timed commands for frequency and gain
setting, so there is no way to control exactly when the gain is
applied. For that, you would have to use a USRP that supports timed
commands (such as an N or X series).
That said, the call to set the gain on the B210 does block so it is
probably safe to assume that when the call returns the gain has
changed and is settled. Assuming that, you can call get_time_now()
before and after setting the gain and simply discard all samples
with receive timestamps between the times. This allows you to
ignore samples during the transition, but controlling precisely when
the gain gets applied is just not possible.
Regards,
Michael E. West
On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 7:35 PM, Dario Fertonani via USRP-users
<usrp-users@lists.ettus.com <mailto:usrp-users@lists.ettus.com>> wrote:
My Ettus board is the B210 model. On the host PC I'm using UHD
built from source, all running on Ubuntu 14.10 low latency.
My question is about the settling speed of the c++ API
calls set_rx_freq and set_rx_gain. Any documentation available
on how long they take before convergence to the desired value is
achieved? The set_rx_freq call seems to be very slow, which I
can live with. The speed of set_rx_gain is much more critical in
my application and any information would help. My concern is the
time during which the IQ samples are unreliable because of
settling going on, whereas I'm not concerned with the delay
between the command request and the actual command execution in
the RF chain.
Assuming the setting speed is good enough, I'd have a follow up
question: Does the c++ API provide a way to select when the gain
change is applied? My understanding so far is that those
commands are only available in asynchronous mode, unlike timed
commands like recv.
Thanks,
Dario
_______________________________________________
USRP-users mailing list
USRP-users@lists.ettus.com <mailto:USRP-users@lists.ettus.com>
http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
USRP-users mailing list
USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
That is correct; an analog gain is applied. Note it is still possible to
"do damage" this way, e.g. by driving amps or ADC into saturation.
M
On 02/17/2015 03:08 AM, Dario Fertonani via USRP-users wrote:
> Thank you Michael.
> Can you also confirm/correct the following statement?
> Calling set_rx_gain on the B210 doesn't merely scale the IQ samples in
> the digital domain after all the damage in done, but rather acts at some
> point before the final quantization.
>
> Best regards,
> Dario
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 5:40 PM, Michael West <michael.west@ettus.com
> <mailto:michael.west@ettus.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi Dario,
>
> The B210 does not support timed commands for frequency and gain
> setting, so there is no way to control exactly when the gain is
> applied. For that, you would have to use a USRP that supports timed
> commands (such as an N or X series).
>
> That said, the call to set the gain on the B210 does block so it is
> probably safe to assume that when the call returns the gain has
> changed and is settled. Assuming that, you can call get_time_now()
> before and after setting the gain and simply discard all samples
> with receive timestamps between the times. This allows you to
> ignore samples during the transition, but controlling precisely when
> the gain gets applied is just not possible.
>
> Regards,
> Michael E. West
>
> On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 7:35 PM, Dario Fertonani via USRP-users
> <usrp-users@lists.ettus.com <mailto:usrp-users@lists.ettus.com>> wrote:
>
> My Ettus board is the B210 model. On the host PC I'm using UHD
> built from source, all running on Ubuntu 14.10 low latency.
>
> My question is about the settling speed of the c++ API
> calls set_rx_freq and set_rx_gain. Any documentation available
> on how long they take before convergence to the desired value is
> achieved? The set_rx_freq call seems to be very slow, which I
> can live with. The speed of set_rx_gain is much more critical in
> my application and any information would help. My concern is the
> time during which the IQ samples are unreliable because of
> settling going on, whereas I'm not concerned with the delay
> between the command request and the actual command execution in
> the RF chain.
>
> Assuming the setting speed is good enough, I'd have a follow up
> question: Does the c++ API provide a way to select when the gain
> change is applied? My understanding so far is that those
> commands are only available in asynchronous mode, unlike timed
> commands like recv.
>
> Thanks,
> Dario
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> USRP-users mailing list
> USRP-users@lists.ettus.com <mailto:USRP-users@lists.ettus.com>
> http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> USRP-users mailing list
> USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
> http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
>
MC
Maurizio Crozzoli
Mon, Mar 7, 2016 1:32 PM
Martin Braun via USRP-users <usrp-users@...> writes:
That is correct; an analog gain is applied. Note it is still possible to
"do damage" this way, e.g. by driving amps or ADC into saturation.
So what's the rule?
Setting the correct gain seems to be really critical but I cannot understand
what is the correct approach to decide a reasonable value: is it just a
cut&try approach?
AGC might help from a theoretical point of view. But just theoretical, I'm
afraid, as far as I have understood, because most likely you tend to get
damages when AGC is on.
Nevertheless AGC would be really needed when your signal level fluctuates
along a wide range of values. And if the best suggestion is to avoid AGC, we
go back to the initial questions.
Comments, suggestions, even tutorial from a practical point of view are more
than welcome (they might even be worth of becoming a FAQ for SDR
not-so-experienced users). Volunteers?
TIA!
Maurizio.
Martin Braun via USRP-users <usrp-users@...> writes:
>
> That is correct; an analog gain is applied. Note it is still possible to
> "do damage" this way, e.g. by driving amps or ADC into saturation.
>
So what's the rule?
Setting the correct gain seems to be really critical but I cannot understand
what is the correct approach to decide a reasonable value: is it just a
cut&try approach?
AGC might help from a theoretical point of view. But just theoretical, I'm
afraid, as far as I have understood, because most likely you tend to get
damages when AGC is on.
Nevertheless AGC would be really needed when your signal level fluctuates
along a wide range of values. And if the best suggestion is to avoid AGC, we
go back to the initial questions.
Comments, suggestions, even tutorial from a practical point of view are more
than welcome (they might even be worth of becoming a FAQ for SDR
not-so-experienced users). Volunteers?
TIA!
Maurizio.
JH
James Humphries
Mon, Mar 7, 2016 3:00 PM
Hi Maurizio,
It really depends on the application as to what you set the gain to. What
kind of input power do you expect on the RX? Is this for a B200/210, if so,
a good starting point is around 20-30dB.
Here is some data I took a while back (see attached photo). The lines end
where I started to see distortion with too much input power. Maybe this
will help as a rough guide. Note the high noise floor at 0dB gain, you need
some gain to improve the noise figure.
-Trip
On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Maurizio Crozzoli via USRP-users <
usrp-users@lists.ettus.com> wrote:
Martin Braun via USRP-users <usrp-users@...> writes:
That is correct; an analog gain is applied. Note it is still possible to
"do damage" this way, e.g. by driving amps or ADC into saturation.
So what's the rule?
Setting the correct gain seems to be really critical but I cannot
understand
what is the correct approach to decide a reasonable value: is it just a
cut&try approach?
AGC might help from a theoretical point of view. But just theoretical, I'm
afraid, as far as I have understood, because most likely you tend to get
damages when AGC is on.
Nevertheless AGC would be really needed when your signal level fluctuates
along a wide range of values. And if the best suggestion is to avoid AGC,
we
go back to the initial questions.
Comments, suggestions, even tutorial from a practical point of view are
more
than welcome (they might even be worth of becoming a FAQ for SDR
not-so-experienced users). Volunteers?
TIA!
Maurizio.
USRP-users mailing list
USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
Hi Maurizio,
It really depends on the application as to what you set the gain to. What
kind of input power do you expect on the RX? Is this for a B200/210, if so,
a good starting point is around 20-30dB.
Here is some data I took a while back (see attached photo). The lines end
where I started to see distortion with too much input power. Maybe this
will help as a rough guide. Note the high noise floor at 0dB gain, you need
some gain to improve the noise figure.
-Trip
On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Maurizio Crozzoli via USRP-users <
usrp-users@lists.ettus.com> wrote:
> Martin Braun via USRP-users <usrp-users@...> writes:
>
> >
> > That is correct; an analog gain is applied. Note it is still possible to
> > "do damage" this way, e.g. by driving amps or ADC into saturation.
> >
>
> So what's the rule?
> Setting the correct gain seems to be really critical but I cannot
> understand
> what is the correct approach to decide a reasonable value: is it just a
> cut&try approach?
>
> AGC might help from a theoretical point of view. But just theoretical, I'm
> afraid, as far as I have understood, because most likely you tend to get
> damages when AGC is on.
>
> Nevertheless AGC would be really needed when your signal level fluctuates
> along a wide range of values. And if the best suggestion is to avoid AGC,
> we
> go back to the initial questions.
>
> Comments, suggestions, even tutorial from a practical point of view are
> more
> than welcome (they might even be worth of becoming a FAQ for SDR
> not-so-experienced users). Volunteers?
>
> TIA!
>
> Maurizio.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> USRP-users mailing list
> USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
> http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
>
CM
Crozzoli Maurizio
Mon, Mar 7, 2016 3:56 PM
Trip,
thank you for your answer!
We are using an E310.
What should I do to obtain a curve similar to the one you sent to us?
Which kind of input signal did you use?
Of course I know what is the power level of the input signal (dBm) but how do I get the absolute power level of collected/acquired signals? I can calculate the average of (I^2+Q^2) and express it in dB but what is the “reference” level of the acquired signal so that “dB” becomes “dBm”?
TIA!
BR,
Maurizio.
Da: James Humphries [mailto:james.humphries@ettus.com]
Inviato: lunedì 7 marzo 2016 16:01
A: Crozzoli Maurizio
Cc: USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
Oggetto: Re: [USRP-users] Questions on set_rx_gain
Hi Maurizio,
It really depends on the application as to what you set the gain to. What kind of input power do you expect on the RX? Is this for a B200/210, if so, a good starting point is around 20-30dB.
Here is some data I took a while back (see attached photo). The lines end where I started to see distortion with too much input power. Maybe this will help as a rough guide. Note the high noise floor at 0dB gain, you need some gain to improve the noise figure.
-Trip
[cid:image002.png@01D17890.81C28E10]
On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Maurizio Crozzoli via USRP-users <usrp-users@lists.ettus.commailto:usrp-users@lists.ettus.com> wrote:
Martin Braun via USRP-users <usrp-users@...mailto:usrp-users@...> writes:
That is correct; an analog gain is applied. Note it is still possible to
"do damage" this way, e.g. by driving amps or ADC into saturation.
So what's the rule?
Setting the correct gain seems to be really critical but I cannot understand
what is the correct approach to decide a reasonable value: is it just a
cut&try approach?
AGC might help from a theoretical point of view. But just theoretical, I'm
afraid, as far as I have understood, because most likely you tend to get
damages when AGC is on.
Nevertheless AGC would be really needed when your signal level fluctuates
along a wide range of values. And if the best suggestion is to avoid AGC, we
go back to the initial questions.
Comments, suggestions, even tutorial from a practical point of view are more
than welcome (they might even be worth of becoming a FAQ for SDR
not-so-experienced users). Volunteers?
TIA!
Maurizio.
USRP-users mailing list
USRP-users@lists.ettus.commailto:USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
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Trip,
thank you for your answer!
We are using an E310.
What should I do to obtain a curve similar to the one you sent to us?
Which kind of input signal did you use?
Of course I know what is the power level of the input signal (dBm) but how do I get the absolute power level of collected/acquired signals? I can calculate the average of (I^2+Q^2) and express it in dB but what is the “reference” level of the acquired signal so that “dB” becomes “dBm”?
TIA!
BR,
Maurizio.
Da: James Humphries [mailto:james.humphries@ettus.com]
Inviato: lunedì 7 marzo 2016 16:01
A: Crozzoli Maurizio
Cc: USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
Oggetto: Re: [USRP-users] Questions on set_rx_gain
Hi Maurizio,
It really depends on the application as to what you set the gain to. What kind of input power do you expect on the RX? Is this for a B200/210, if so, a good starting point is around 20-30dB.
Here is some data I took a while back (see attached photo). The lines end where I started to see distortion with too much input power. Maybe this will help as a rough guide. Note the high noise floor at 0dB gain, you need some gain to improve the noise figure.
-Trip
[cid:image002.png@01D17890.81C28E10]
On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Maurizio Crozzoli via USRP-users <usrp-users@lists.ettus.com<mailto:usrp-users@lists.ettus.com>> wrote:
Martin Braun via USRP-users <usrp-users@...<mailto:usrp-users@...>> writes:
>
> That is correct; an analog gain is applied. Note it is still possible to
> "do damage" this way, e.g. by driving amps or ADC into saturation.
>
So what's the rule?
Setting the correct gain seems to be really critical but I cannot understand
what is the correct approach to decide a reasonable value: is it just a
cut&try approach?
AGC might help from a theoretical point of view. But just theoretical, I'm
afraid, as far as I have understood, because most likely you tend to get
damages when AGC is on.
Nevertheless AGC would be really needed when your signal level fluctuates
along a wide range of values. And if the best suggestion is to avoid AGC, we
go back to the initial questions.
Comments, suggestions, even tutorial from a practical point of view are more
than welcome (they might even be worth of becoming a FAQ for SDR
not-so-experienced users). Volunteers?
TIA!
Maurizio.
_______________________________________________
USRP-users mailing list
USRP-users@lists.ettus.com<mailto:USRP-users@lists.ettus.com>
http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
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This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sender by return e-mail, Thanks.
[rispetta l'ambiente]Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non è necessario.
JH
James Humphries
Mon, Mar 7, 2016 4:20 PM
Hi Maurizio,
As a disclaimer, it is discouraged to input power levels this high to your
USRP as it can easily cause damage. I recommend at least a 20dB attenuator
if you wire directly.
For an input, I used an RF signal generator (Agilent 8648C) with a simple
sine output at 915MHz. I used this to control the input power to the USRP.
I did as you suggested to calculate the magnitude of the signal, and then
used a fudge factor to 'calibrate' it to the known input power (Although,
you can see that the fudge factor is slightly off in this data). This was
only a quick test to get a rough estimate of saturation points, noise
floor, and linearity.
-Trip
On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 10:56 AM, Crozzoli Maurizio <
maurizio.crozzoli@telecomitalia.it> wrote:
Trip,
thank you for your answer!
We are using an E310.
What should I do to obtain a curve similar to the one you sent to us?
Which kind of input signal did you use?
Of course I know what is the power level of the input signal (dBm) but how
do I get the absolute power level of collected/acquired signals? I can
calculate the average of (I^2+Q^2) and express it in dB but what is the
“reference” level of the acquired signal so that “dB” becomes “dBm”?
TIA!
BR,
Maurizio.
Da: James Humphries [mailto:james.humphries@ettus.com]
Inviato: lunedì 7 marzo 2016 16:01
A: Crozzoli Maurizio
Cc: USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
Oggetto: Re: [USRP-users] Questions on set_rx_gain
Hi Maurizio,
It really depends on the application as to what you set the gain to. What
kind of input power do you expect on the RX? Is this for a B200/210, if so,
a good starting point is around 20-30dB.
Here is some data I took a while back (see attached photo). The lines end
where I started to see distortion with too much input power. Maybe this
will help as a rough guide. Note the high noise floor at 0dB gain, you need
some gain to improve the noise figure.
-Trip
On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Maurizio Crozzoli via USRP-users <
usrp-users@lists.ettus.com> wrote:
Martin Braun via USRP-users <usrp-users@...> writes:
That is correct; an analog gain is applied. Note it is still possible to
"do damage" this way, e.g. by driving amps or ADC into saturation.
So what's the rule?
Setting the correct gain seems to be really critical but I cannot
understand
what is the correct approach to decide a reasonable value: is it just a
cut&try approach?
AGC might help from a theoretical point of view. But just theoretical, I'm
afraid, as far as I have understood, because most likely you tend to get
damages when AGC is on.
Nevertheless AGC would be really needed when your signal level fluctuates
along a wide range of values. And if the best suggestion is to avoid AGC,
we
go back to the initial questions.
Comments, suggestions, even tutorial from a practical point of view are
more
than welcome (they might even be worth of becoming a FAQ for SDR
not-so-experienced users). Volunteers?
TIA!
Maurizio.
USRP-users mailing list
USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle
persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante
dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora
abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di
darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua
distruzione, Grazie.
This e-mail and any attachments* is *confidential and may contain
privileged information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination,
copying, printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not
the intended recipient, please delete this message and any attachments and
advise the sender by return e-mail, Thanks.
[image: rispetta l'ambiente]Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail
se non è necessario.
Hi Maurizio,
As a disclaimer, it is discouraged to input power levels this high to your
USRP as it can easily cause damage. I recommend at least a 20dB attenuator
if you wire directly.
For an input, I used an RF signal generator (Agilent 8648C) with a simple
sine output at 915MHz. I used this to control the input power to the USRP.
I did as you suggested to calculate the magnitude of the signal, and then
used a fudge factor to 'calibrate' it to the known input power (Although,
you can see that the fudge factor is slightly off in this data). This was
only a quick test to get a rough estimate of saturation points, noise
floor, and linearity.
-Trip
On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 10:56 AM, Crozzoli Maurizio <
maurizio.crozzoli@telecomitalia.it> wrote:
> Trip,
>
> thank you for your answer!
>
>
>
> We are using an E310.
>
>
>
> What should I do to obtain a curve similar to the one you sent to us?
>
>
>
> Which kind of input signal did you use?
>
>
>
> Of course I know what is the power level of the input signal (dBm) but how
> do I get the absolute power level of collected/acquired signals? I can
> calculate the average of (I^2+Q^2) and express it in dB but what is the
> “reference” level of the acquired signal so that “dB” becomes “dBm”?
>
>
>
> TIA!
>
>
>
> BR,
>
> Maurizio.
>
>
>
> *Da:* James Humphries [mailto:james.humphries@ettus.com]
> *Inviato:* lunedì 7 marzo 2016 16:01
> *A:* Crozzoli Maurizio
> *Cc:* USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
> *Oggetto:* Re: [USRP-users] Questions on set_rx_gain
>
>
>
> Hi Maurizio,
>
>
>
> It really depends on the application as to what you set the gain to. What
> kind of input power do you expect on the RX? Is this for a B200/210, if so,
> a good starting point is around 20-30dB.
>
>
>
> Here is some data I took a while back (see attached photo). The lines end
> where I started to see distortion with too much input power. Maybe this
> will help as a rough guide. Note the high noise floor at 0dB gain, you need
> some gain to improve the noise figure.
>
>
>
> -Trip
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Maurizio Crozzoli via USRP-users <
> usrp-users@lists.ettus.com> wrote:
>
> Martin Braun via USRP-users <usrp-users@...> writes:
>
> >
> > That is correct; an analog gain is applied. Note it is still possible to
> > "do damage" this way, e.g. by driving amps or ADC into saturation.
> >
>
> So what's the rule?
> Setting the correct gain seems to be really critical but I cannot
> understand
> what is the correct approach to decide a reasonable value: is it just a
> cut&try approach?
>
> AGC might help from a theoretical point of view. But just theoretical, I'm
> afraid, as far as I have understood, because most likely you tend to get
> damages when AGC is on.
>
> Nevertheless AGC would be really needed when your signal level fluctuates
> along a wide range of values. And if the best suggestion is to avoid AGC,
> we
> go back to the initial questions.
>
> Comments, suggestions, even tutorial from a practical point of view are
> more
> than welcome (they might even be worth of becoming a FAQ for SDR
> not-so-experienced users). Volunteers?
>
> TIA!
>
> Maurizio.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> USRP-users mailing list
> USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
> http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
>
>
> Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle
> persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante
> dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora
> abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di
> darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua
> distruzione, Grazie.
>
> *This e-mail and any attachments** is **confidential and may contain
> privileged information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination,
> copying, printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not
> the intended recipient, please delete this message and any attachments and
> advise the sender by return e-mail, Thanks.*
> *[image: rispetta l'ambiente]Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail
> se non è necessario.*
>
>
CM
Crozzoli Maurizio
Mon, Mar 7, 2016 11:15 PM
"The lines end where I started to see distortion": just a "visual" approach or did you measure somehow the distortion?
---- James Humphries ha scritto ----
Hi Maurizio,
As a disclaimer, it is discouraged to input power levels this high to your USRP as it can easily cause damage. I recommend at least a 20dB attenuator if you wire directly.
For an input, I used an RF signal generator (Agilent 8648C) with a simple sine output at 915MHz. I used this to control the input power to the USRP. I did as you suggested to calculate the magnitude of the signal, and then used a fudge factor to 'calibrate' it to the known input power (Although, you can see that the fudge factor is slightly off in this data). This was only a quick test to get a rough estimate of saturation points, noise floor, and linearity.
-Trip
On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 10:56 AM, Crozzoli Maurizio <maurizio.crozzoli@telecomitalia.itmailto:maurizio.crozzoli@telecomitalia.it> wrote:
Trip,
thank you for your answer!
We are using an E310.
What should I do to obtain a curve similar to the one you sent to us?
Which kind of input signal did you use?
Of course I know what is the power level of the input signal (dBm) but how do I get the absolute power level of collected/acquired signals? I can calculate the average of (I^2+Q^2) and express it in dB but what is the “reference” level of the acquired signal so that “dB” becomes “dBm”?
TIA!
BR,
Maurizio.
Da: James Humphries [mailto:james.humphries@ettus.commailto:james.humphries@ettus.com]
Inviato: lunedì 7 marzo 2016 16:01
A: Crozzoli Maurizio
Cc: USRP-users@lists.ettus.commailto:USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
Oggetto: Re: [USRP-users] Questions on set_rx_gain
Hi Maurizio,
It really depends on the application as to what you set the gain to. What kind of input power do you expect on the RX? Is this for a B200/210, if so, a good starting point is around 20-30dB.
Here is some data I took a while back (see attached photo). The lines end where I started to see distortion with too much input power. Maybe this will help as a rough guide. Note the high noise floor at 0dB gain, you need some gain to improve the noise figure.
-Trip
[cid:image002.png@01D17890.81C28E10]
On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Maurizio Crozzoli via USRP-users <usrp-users@lists.ettus.commailto:usrp-users@lists.ettus.com> wrote:
Martin Braun via USRP-users <usrp-users@...mailto:usrp-users@...> writes:
That is correct; an analog gain is applied. Note it is still possible to
"do damage" this way, e.g. by driving amps or ADC into saturation.
So what's the rule?
Setting the correct gain seems to be really critical but I cannot understand
what is the correct approach to decide a reasonable value: is it just a
cut&try approach?
AGC might help from a theoretical point of view. But just theoretical, I'm
afraid, as far as I have understood, because most likely you tend to get
damages when AGC is on.
Nevertheless AGC would be really needed when your signal level fluctuates
along a wide range of values. And if the best suggestion is to avoid AGC, we
go back to the initial questions.
Comments, suggestions, even tutorial from a practical point of view are more
than welcome (they might even be worth of becoming a FAQ for SDR
not-so-experienced users). Volunteers?
TIA!
Maurizio.
USRP-users mailing list
USRP-users@lists.ettus.commailto:USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione, Grazie.
This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sender by return e-mail, Thanks.
[rispetta l'ambiente]Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non è necessario.
"The lines end where I started to see distortion": just a "visual" approach or did you measure somehow the distortion?
---- James Humphries ha scritto ----
Hi Maurizio,
As a disclaimer, it is discouraged to input power levels this high to your USRP as it can easily cause damage. I recommend at least a 20dB attenuator if you wire directly.
For an input, I used an RF signal generator (Agilent 8648C) with a simple sine output at 915MHz. I used this to control the input power to the USRP. I did as you suggested to calculate the magnitude of the signal, and then used a fudge factor to 'calibrate' it to the known input power (Although, you can see that the fudge factor is slightly off in this data). This was only a quick test to get a rough estimate of saturation points, noise floor, and linearity.
-Trip
On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 10:56 AM, Crozzoli Maurizio <maurizio.crozzoli@telecomitalia.it<mailto:maurizio.crozzoli@telecomitalia.it>> wrote:
Trip,
thank you for your answer!
We are using an E310.
What should I do to obtain a curve similar to the one you sent to us?
Which kind of input signal did you use?
Of course I know what is the power level of the input signal (dBm) but how do I get the absolute power level of collected/acquired signals? I can calculate the average of (I^2+Q^2) and express it in dB but what is the “reference” level of the acquired signal so that “dB” becomes “dBm”?
TIA!
BR,
Maurizio.
Da: James Humphries [mailto:james.humphries@ettus.com<mailto:james.humphries@ettus.com>]
Inviato: lunedì 7 marzo 2016 16:01
A: Crozzoli Maurizio
Cc: USRP-users@lists.ettus.com<mailto:USRP-users@lists.ettus.com>
Oggetto: Re: [USRP-users] Questions on set_rx_gain
Hi Maurizio,
It really depends on the application as to what you set the gain to. What kind of input power do you expect on the RX? Is this for a B200/210, if so, a good starting point is around 20-30dB.
Here is some data I took a while back (see attached photo). The lines end where I started to see distortion with too much input power. Maybe this will help as a rough guide. Note the high noise floor at 0dB gain, you need some gain to improve the noise figure.
-Trip
[cid:image002.png@01D17890.81C28E10]
On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Maurizio Crozzoli via USRP-users <usrp-users@lists.ettus.com<mailto:usrp-users@lists.ettus.com>> wrote:
Martin Braun via USRP-users <usrp-users@...<mailto:usrp-users@...>> writes:
>
> That is correct; an analog gain is applied. Note it is still possible to
> "do damage" this way, e.g. by driving amps or ADC into saturation.
>
So what's the rule?
Setting the correct gain seems to be really critical but I cannot understand
what is the correct approach to decide a reasonable value: is it just a
cut&try approach?
AGC might help from a theoretical point of view. But just theoretical, I'm
afraid, as far as I have understood, because most likely you tend to get
damages when AGC is on.
Nevertheless AGC would be really needed when your signal level fluctuates
along a wide range of values. And if the best suggestion is to avoid AGC, we
go back to the initial questions.
Comments, suggestions, even tutorial from a practical point of view are more
than welcome (they might even be worth of becoming a FAQ for SDR
not-so-experienced users). Volunteers?
TIA!
Maurizio.
_______________________________________________
USRP-users mailing list
USRP-users@lists.ettus.com<mailto:USRP-users@lists.ettus.com>
http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione, Grazie.
This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sender by return e-mail, Thanks.
[rispetta l'ambiente]Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non è necessario.
JH
James Humphries
Wed, Mar 9, 2016 1:29 AM
Yup, just a visual approach to see distortion of frequency domain data.
Like I said, it was a very quick and dirty measurement just to get a rough
idea.
-Trip
On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 6:15 PM, Crozzoli Maurizio <
maurizio.crozzoli@telecomitalia.it> wrote:
"The lines end where I started to see distortion": just a "visual"
approach or did you measure somehow the distortion?
---- James Humphries ha scritto ----
Hi Maurizio,
As a disclaimer, it is discouraged to input power levels this high to your
USRP as it can easily cause damage. I recommend at least a 20dB attenuator
if you wire directly.
For an input, I used an RF signal generator (Agilent 8648C) with a simple
sine output at 915MHz. I used this to control the input power to the USRP.
I did as you suggested to calculate the magnitude of the signal, and then
used a fudge factor to 'calibrate' it to the known input power (Although,
you can see that the fudge factor is slightly off in this data). This was
only a quick test to get a rough estimate of saturation points, noise
floor, and linearity.
-Trip
On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 10:56 AM, Crozzoli Maurizio <
maurizio.crozzoli@telecomitalia.it> wrote:
Trip,
thank you for your answer!
We are using an E310.
What should I do to obtain a curve similar to the one you sent to us?
Which kind of input signal did you use?
Of course I know what is the power level of the input signal (dBm) but
how do I get the absolute power level of collected/acquired signals? I can
calculate the average of (I^2+Q^2) and express it in dB but what is the
“reference” level of the acquired signal so that “dB” becomes “dBm”?
TIA!
BR,
Maurizio.
Da: James Humphries [mailto:james.humphries@ettus.com]
Inviato: lunedì 7 marzo 2016 16:01
A: Crozzoli Maurizio
Cc: USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
Oggetto: Re: [USRP-users] Questions on set_rx_gain
Hi Maurizio,
It really depends on the application as to what you set the gain to. What
kind of input power do you expect on the RX? Is this for a B200/210, if so,
a good starting point is around 20-30dB.
Here is some data I took a while back (see attached photo). The lines end
where I started to see distortion with too much input power. Maybe this
will help as a rough guide. Note the high noise floor at 0dB gain, you need
some gain to improve the noise figure.
-Trip
On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Maurizio Crozzoli via USRP-users <
usrp-users@lists.ettus.com> wrote:
Martin Braun via USRP-users <usrp-users@...> writes:
That is correct; an analog gain is applied. Note it is still possible to
"do damage" this way, e.g. by driving amps or ADC into saturation.
So what's the rule?
Setting the correct gain seems to be really critical but I cannot
understand
what is the correct approach to decide a reasonable value: is it just a
cut&try approach?
AGC might help from a theoretical point of view. But just theoretical, I'm
afraid, as far as I have understood, because most likely you tend to get
damages when AGC is on.
Nevertheless AGC would be really needed when your signal level fluctuates
along a wide range of values. And if the best suggestion is to avoid AGC,
we
go back to the initial questions.
Comments, suggestions, even tutorial from a practical point of view are
more
than welcome (they might even be worth of becoming a FAQ for SDR
not-so-experienced users). Volunteers?
TIA!
Maurizio.
USRP-users mailing list
USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle
persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante
dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora
abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di
darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua
distruzione, Grazie.
This e-mail and any attachments* is *confidential and may contain
privileged information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination,
copying, printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not
the intended recipient, please delete this message and any attachments and
advise the sender by return e-mail, Thanks.
[image: rispetta l'ambiente]Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa
mail se non è necessario.
Yup, just a visual approach to see distortion of frequency domain data.
Like I said, it was a very quick and dirty measurement just to get a rough
idea.
-Trip
On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 6:15 PM, Crozzoli Maurizio <
maurizio.crozzoli@telecomitalia.it> wrote:
> "The lines end where I started to see distortion": just a "visual"
> approach or did you measure somehow the distortion?
>
>
> ---- James Humphries ha scritto ----
>
>
> Hi Maurizio,
>
> As a disclaimer, it is discouraged to input power levels this high to your
> USRP as it can easily cause damage. I recommend at least a 20dB attenuator
> if you wire directly.
>
> For an input, I used an RF signal generator (Agilent 8648C) with a simple
> sine output at 915MHz. I used this to control the input power to the USRP.
> I did as you suggested to calculate the magnitude of the signal, and then
> used a fudge factor to 'calibrate' it to the known input power (Although,
> you can see that the fudge factor is slightly off in this data). This was
> only a quick test to get a rough estimate of saturation points, noise
> floor, and linearity.
>
> -Trip
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 10:56 AM, Crozzoli Maurizio <
> maurizio.crozzoli@telecomitalia.it> wrote:
>
>> Trip,
>>
>> thank you for your answer!
>>
>>
>>
>> We are using an E310.
>>
>>
>>
>> What should I do to obtain a curve similar to the one you sent to us?
>>
>>
>>
>> Which kind of input signal did you use?
>>
>>
>>
>> Of course I know what is the power level of the input signal (dBm) but
>> how do I get the absolute power level of collected/acquired signals? I can
>> calculate the average of (I^2+Q^2) and express it in dB but what is the
>> “reference” level of the acquired signal so that “dB” becomes “dBm”?
>>
>>
>>
>> TIA!
>>
>>
>>
>> BR,
>>
>> Maurizio.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Da:* James Humphries [mailto:james.humphries@ettus.com]
>> *Inviato:* lunedì 7 marzo 2016 16:01
>> *A:* Crozzoli Maurizio
>> *Cc:* USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
>> *Oggetto:* Re: [USRP-users] Questions on set_rx_gain
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Maurizio,
>>
>>
>>
>> It really depends on the application as to what you set the gain to. What
>> kind of input power do you expect on the RX? Is this for a B200/210, if so,
>> a good starting point is around 20-30dB.
>>
>>
>>
>> Here is some data I took a while back (see attached photo). The lines end
>> where I started to see distortion with too much input power. Maybe this
>> will help as a rough guide. Note the high noise floor at 0dB gain, you need
>> some gain to improve the noise figure.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Trip
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Maurizio Crozzoli via USRP-users <
>> usrp-users@lists.ettus.com> wrote:
>>
>> Martin Braun via USRP-users <usrp-users@...> writes:
>>
>> >
>> > That is correct; an analog gain is applied. Note it is still possible to
>> > "do damage" this way, e.g. by driving amps or ADC into saturation.
>> >
>>
>> So what's the rule?
>> Setting the correct gain seems to be really critical but I cannot
>> understand
>> what is the correct approach to decide a reasonable value: is it just a
>> cut&try approach?
>>
>> AGC might help from a theoretical point of view. But just theoretical, I'm
>> afraid, as far as I have understood, because most likely you tend to get
>> damages when AGC is on.
>>
>> Nevertheless AGC would be really needed when your signal level fluctuates
>> along a wide range of values. And if the best suggestion is to avoid AGC,
>> we
>> go back to the initial questions.
>>
>> Comments, suggestions, even tutorial from a practical point of view are
>> more
>> than welcome (they might even be worth of becoming a FAQ for SDR
>> not-so-experienced users). Volunteers?
>>
>> TIA!
>>
>> Maurizio.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> USRP-users mailing list
>> USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
>> http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
>>
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