> > I am not one to really hate anything but I do hate the (new) forum for AGLCA. It is like I lost all my boating friends because I can't just open my email and read what and where everyone is. I have been on the GL list for ever and they know how to do it right. AND I am in agreement with Ralph, I liked meeting Fred of Tug 44 in person. He has been assisting with up to date info for the Erie Canal and Champlain guides by Skipper Bob (my late husband) for many years. Good man up there taking care that the latest info gets out to the boating public. Good Job Fred! > > Elaine > > Elaine Reib, co founder > Skipper Bob Publications > On Jul 9, 2013, at 8:44 AM, Cindy Schwippert wrote: > >> >> I am new to this site (6 mo) and my husband and I are planning for the loop in 16 months, 3 days, 10 minutes and 5 seconds and I love reading all the information, opinions, pictures, etc. This site is perfect for my preparations. You folks are funny, informative and yes opinionated! J >> And indeed, I can’t wait to meet “Tug 44” and the Green machine. Thanks for all the great posts! >> Cindy & Chuck, Florida... >> "No boat...yet" >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Ralph Yost <ralph@alphacompservices.com> >> To: 'D C _Mac_ Macdonald' <k2gkk@hotmail.com>; johnesch888@sbcglobal.net; 'Great Loop List' <great-loop@lists.trawlering.com>; 'Ginger Conner' <midway@nexband.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2013 6:59 AM >> Subject: Re: GL: documented boat cruising from Montreal through Lake Champlain >> >> >> Ginger >> I agree with Mac 100% about the AGLCA "forum" web site. Yahoo group >> listservs are FREE and can be set up in 5 minutes. Yet they don't do it. Ask >> anything you want about the Loop here and you will get some very good >> informative answers from people who have done the Loop or are doing it this >> year. >> >> I've been on this list more than 10 years and think this is the best Great >> Loop information out there. Some of the other members have been on as long >> or longer than I. >> One of our great Loop moments was finally meeting Tug44 Fred in person when >> we did the Loop last year, even though we didn't see the alleged John Deere >> tractor chick magnet. >> R. >> >> Our blog is >> http://www.SayGood-Bye.com >> >> SayGoodbye FOR SALE: >> http://www.alphacompservices.com/Boat/ForSale/SayGoodbyeForSale.htm >> Youtube channel for the videos >> www.youtube.com/user/ralphyost1 >> Say Good-Bye >> 41 Defever >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Great-Loop [mailto:great-loop-bounces@lists.trawlering.com] On Behalf >> Of D C _Mac_ Macdonald >> Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 11:19 PM >> To: johnesch888@sbcglobal.net; Great Loop List; Ginger Conner >> Subject: Re: GL: documented boat cruising from Montreal through Lake >> Champlain >> >> Hi, Ginger. >> >> The AGLCA in its "wisdom" canceled the old mailing list and went to a >> "forum" system. That system is, to me, an unbelievably unwieldy and >> complicated mess! It is my opinion that this new system is a basic reason >> that looper traffic is much more limited. >> >> The Great Loop List here is much like the old AGLCA mailing list and is >> maybe not particularly well known to loopers. >> >> I also expect that you will see considerably more loopers here later in the >> year after the bottleneck in the Erie Canal has cleared and also when >> loopers are starting southbound from the Great Lakes. >> >> * * * * * * * * * * * * * >> ** D C "Mac" Macdonald ** >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com >> >> To modify your Great-Loop subscription options (change email address, >> unsubscribe, etc.) go to: http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/options/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com >> _______________________________________________ >> http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com >> >> To modify your Great-Loop subscription options (change email address, >> unsubscribe, etc.) go to: http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/options/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com >

I too will vote my overall dislike of web-based forums. Esp for folks who travel a lot, where internet connect is poor / expensive: the ability to download postings via POP3 is so much better than trying to wade through web-based portals... Another list I use to use a lot moved to web based forum, I do not participate in it any more... Oh Well, do understand the 'draw' of web-based - hard to sneak in advertisement pop-ups on an Email list :-) -al- Viking Star 45' Monk Sr. / McQueen mvVikingStar.blogspot.com

It is my understanding that, in addition to the messages on their web based forums, AGLCA members can ALSO choose to have all message delivered to them via e-mail. I get e-mail messages almost every day from the AGLCA forum. Sounds like the best of both worlds to me!!!???? -- Claiborne S. Young Salty Southeast Cruisers' Net http://www.CruisersNet.net CruisingWriter@cruisersnet.net ---- Al Thomason <thomason.al@gmail.com> wrote: > I too will vote my overall dislike of web-based forums. Esp for folks who > travel a lot, where internet connect is poor / expensive: the ability to > download postings via POP3 is so much better than trying to wade through > web-based portals... > > Another list I use to use a lot moved to web based forum, I do not > participate in it any more... > > Oh Well, do understand the 'draw' of web-based - hard to sneak in > advertisement pop-ups on an Email list :-) > > -al- > > > Viking Star > 45' Monk Sr. / McQueen > mvVikingStar.blogspot.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com > > To modify your Great-Loop subscription options (change email address, > unsubscribe, etc.) go to: http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/options/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com

Glad to know I'm not alone in my great detest of the AGLCA "forum." Since we "lost" our boat in a marina collapse in 2010 we will not be renewing our AGLCA membership (Charter #217) with its high dues for zero benefit. Mac & Judy Macdonald OKC Sent from my iPad On Jul 9, 2013, at 9:03, "Elaine Reib" <elreib@comcast.net> wrote: > >> >> I am not one to really hate anything but I do hate the (new) forum for AGLCA. It is like I lost all my boating friends because I can't just open my email and read what and where everyone is. I have been on the GL list for ever and they know how to do it right. AND I am in agreement with Ralph, I liked meeting Fred of Tug 44 in person. He has been assisting with up to date info for the Erie Canal and Champlain guides by Skipper Bob (my late husband) for many years. Good man up there taking care that the latest info gets out to the boating public. Good Job Fred! >> >> Elaine >> >> Elaine Reib, co founder >> Skipper Bob Publications >> On Jul 9, 2013, at 8:44 AM, Cindy Schwippert wrote: >> >>> >>> I am new to this site (6 mo) and my husband and I are planning for the loop in 16 months, 3 days, 10 minutes and 5 seconds and I love reading all the information, opinions, pictures, etc. This site is perfect for my preparations. You folks are funny, informative and yes opinionated! J >>> And indeed, I can’t wait to meet “Tug 44” and the Green machine. Thanks for all the great posts! >>> Cindy & Chuck, Florida... >>> "No boat...yet" >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: Ralph Yost <ralph@alphacompservices.com> >>> To: 'D C _Mac_ Macdonald' <k2gkk@hotmail.com>; johnesch888@sbcglobal.net; 'Great Loop List' <great-loop@lists.trawlering.com>; 'Ginger Conner' <midway@nexband.com> >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2013 6:59 AM >>> Subject: Re: GL: documented boat cruising from Montreal through Lake Champlain >>> >>> >>> Ginger >>> I agree with Mac 100% about the AGLCA "forum" web site. Yahoo group >>> listservs are FREE and can be set up in 5 minutes. Yet they don't do it. Ask >>> anything you want about the Loop here and you will get some very good >>> informative answers from people who have done the Loop or are doing it this >>> year. >>> >>> I've been on this list more than 10 years and think this is the best Great >>> Loop information out there. Some of the other members have been on as long >>> or longer than I. >>> One of our great Loop moments was finally meeting Tug44 Fred in person when >>> we did the Loop last year, even though we didn't see the alleged John Deere >>> tractor chick magnet. >>> R. >>> >>> Our blog is >>> http://www.SayGood-Bye.com >>> >>> SayGoodbye FOR SALE: >>> http://www.alphacompservices.com/Boat/ForSale/SayGoodbyeForSale.htm >>> Youtube channel for the videos >>> www.youtube.com/user/ralphyost1 >>> Say Good-Bye >>> 41 Defever >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Great-Loop [mailto:great-loop-bounces@lists.trawlering.com] On Behalf >>> Of D C _Mac_ Macdonald >>> Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 11:19 PM >>> To: johnesch888@sbcglobal.net; Great Loop List; Ginger Conner >>> Subject: Re: GL: documented boat cruising from Montreal through Lake >>> Champlain >>> >>> Hi, Ginger. >>> >>> The AGLCA in its "wisdom" canceled the old mailing list and went to a >>> "forum" system. That system is, to me, an unbelievably unwieldy and >>> complicated mess! It is my opinion that this new system is a basic reason >>> that looper traffic is much more limited. >>> >>> The Great Loop List here is much like the old AGLCA mailing list and is >>> maybe not particularly well known to loopers. >>> >>> I also expect that you will see considerably more loopers here later in the >>> year after the bottleneck in the Erie Canal has cleared and also when >>> loopers are starting southbound from the Great Lakes. >>> >>> * * * * * * * * * * * * * >>> ** D C "Mac" Macdonald ** >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com >>> >>> To modify your Great-Loop subscription options (change email address, >>> unsubscribe, etc.) go to: http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/options/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com >>> >>> To modify your Great-Loop subscription options (change email address, >>> unsubscribe, etc.) go to: http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/options/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com > > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com > > To modify your Great-Loop subscription options (change email address, > unsubscribe, etc.) go to: http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/options/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com

MAC I learned last year that America's Great Loop Cruiser's Association is really not an association. It’s a profit making business. OK, I'm a capitalist. I'm not at all against anyone making money, or profit. BUT - When you call yourself an ASSOCIATION, the consumer views it as other "associations", like the Marine Trawler Owners Association for example, which is a non-profit volunteer group. Instead, AGCLA ought to be called America's Great Loop Cruising Amalgamated.....or America's Great Loop Cruising Corporation. Its owned by the Kromers and they make their living from it. It is NOT a non-profit like most "associations". I don’t like, and I resent, the stealthiness of the name America's Great Loop Cruiser's Association. It’s a disguise. Its disingenuous. We joined in 2012, I bought our Loop flag, and am done with it. Not buying the "gold" flag either. Don’t care if anyone knows if we completed the Loop or not. I prefer to fly the MTOA flag instead (MTOA is a great group by the way). I have given this comment to one of their board members, face to face over breakfast. R. Our blog is http://www.SayGood-Bye.com SayGoodbye FOR SALE: http://www.alphacompservices.com/Boat/ForSale/SayGoodbyeForSale.htm Youtube channel for the videos www.youtube.com/user/ralphyost1 Say Good-Bye 41 Defever -----Original Message----- From: Great-Loop [mailto:great-loop-bounces@lists.trawlering.com] On Behalf Of D C _Mac_ Macdonald Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 3:36 PM To: Elaine Reib Cc: Great Loop Subject: Re: GL: GL list is the best Glad to know I'm not alone in my great detest of the AGLCA "forum." Since we "lost" our boat in a marina collapse in 2010 we will not be renewing our AGLCA membership (Charter #217) with its high dues for zero benefit. Mac & Judy Macdonald OKC

Ralph, Mac and List, OK you sent me to my dictionary to look up the word "association" and what it means, because I had never heard that it applied to ONLY non-profit groups. Here is what I found: association [əˌsəʊsɪˈeɪʃən -ʃɪ-] n 1. a group of people having a common purpose or interest; a society or club 2. the act of associating or the state of being associated 3. friendship or companionship their association will not last 4. a mental connection of ideas, feelings, or sensations association of revolution with bloodshed 5. (Psychology) Psychol the mental process of linking ideas so that the recurrence of one idea automatically recalls the other See also free association 6. (Chemistry) Chem the formation of groups of molecules and ions, esp in liquids, held together by weak chemical bonds 7. (Life Sciences & Allied Applications / Environmental Science) Ecology a group of similar plants that grow in a uniform environment and contain one or more dominant species. No where does it say that an Association is not permitted to make a profit or to be a business! Nobody complained when the Stobs started and ran the AGLCA. However, when it was started, it was meant to be more of a "self help" organization whereas the Kromers have to pay off their purchase price and pay themselves and their employees as it is no longer a "hobby" venture. Also, the members attending AGLCA rendezvous wanted to hear from "published authors" (Skipper Bob, Fred Meyers, Claiborne Young, etc.) and not just from those who had completed the Loop. Those "professionals" did not come free but had to be compensated for their time and expenses in addition to the opportunity to sell their books and cruising guides. Yes indeed, what was once started to be a Hobby quickly morphed into a business venture by both the Stobs and the Kromers. So, let's not throw stones or point fingers towards those who continue this most valuable resource which advocates for those who hope to do the Loop, for those who are on the Loop and for those of us who remain members to help others. Both organizations have their plusses and minuses. For the record, Judy and I contribute yearly to the Trawlers and Trawlering Great Loop "group" with our donations. Hopefully everyone else on this "free forum" does also??? Just because the wind is free doesn't mean that everything else should be!!! John and Judy Gill Charter Members (043) and Life Members of AGLCA. Proud Gold Flagged Loopers. ====================================================== On Jul 9, 2013, at 4:07 PM, Ralph Yost wrote: (SNIP) > MAC > I learned last year that America's Great Loop Cruiser's Association is really not an association. It’s a profit making business. > OK, I'm a capitalist. I'm not at all against anyone making money, or profit. > BUT - > When you call yourself an ASSOCIATION, the consumer views it as other "associations", like the Marine Trawler Owners Association for example, which is a non-profit volunteer group. > > Instead, AGCLA ought to be called America's Great Loop Cruising Amalgamated.....or America's Great Loop Cruising Corporation. > Its owned by the Kromers and they make their living from it. It is NOT a non-profit like most "associations". > I don’t like, and I resent, the stealthiness of the name America's Great Loop Cruiser's Association. It’s a disguise. Its disingenuous. >

Me too Gregory Han On Jul 9, 2013, at 4:07 PM, "Ralph Yost" <ralph@alphacompservices.com> wrote: > MAC > I learned last year that America's Great Loop Cruiser's Association is really not an association. It’s a profit making business. > OK, I'm a capitalist. I'm not at all against anyone making money, or profit. > BUT - > When you call yourself an ASSOCIATION, the consumer views it as other "associations", like the Marine Trawler Owners Association for example, which is a non-profit volunteer group. > > Instead, AGCLA ought to be called America's Great Loop Cruising Amalgamated.....or America's Great Loop Cruising Corporation. > Its owned by the Kromers and they make their living from it. It is NOT a non-profit like most "associations". > I don’t like, and I resent, the stealthiness of the name America's Great Loop Cruiser's Association. It’s a disguise. Its disingenuous. > > We joined in 2012, I bought our Loop flag, and am done with it. Not buying the "gold" flag either. Don’t care if anyone knows if we completed the Loop or not. I prefer to fly the MTOA flag instead (MTOA is a great group by the way). > > I have given this comment to one of their board members, face to face over breakfast. > > R. > > > Our blog is > http://www.SayGood-Bye.com > > SayGoodbye FOR SALE: > http://www.alphacompservices.com/Boat/ForSale/SayGoodbyeForSale.htm > Youtube channel for the videos > www.youtube.com/user/ralphyost1 > Say Good-Bye > 41 Defever > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Great-Loop [mailto:great-loop-bounces@lists.trawlering.com] On Behalf Of D C _Mac_ Macdonald > Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 3:36 PM > To: Elaine Reib > Cc: Great Loop > Subject: Re: GL: GL list is the best > > Glad to know I'm not alone in my great detest of the AGLCA "forum." > > Since we "lost" our boat in a marina collapse in 2010 we will not be renewing our AGLCA membership (Charter #217) with its high dues for zero benefit. > > Mac & Judy Macdonald > OKC > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com > > To modify your Great-Loop subscription options (change email address, > unsubscribe, etc.) go to: http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/options/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com