Scott

If anyone is looking for a 10 MHz oscillator assembly out of a Lucent clock standard for cell sites ebay has one listed. search under "LUCENT WP-92066 L10 RFG-XO" - The lady who is selling them has about 30 of them left. I bought one and it has an Efratom 10 MHz XO in it. I had her take pictures of the circuit boards inside the unit so if you want to take a look she can probably email them to you. I don't know what I did with the photos she sent me (maybe deleted) but I can take a photo of the one I bought from her if need be. Just email me off board and I'll get the camera out. Chris KL7FB ----- Original Message ----- From: <time-nuts-request@febo.com> To: <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 4:26 PM Subject: time-nuts Digest, Vol 38, Issue 41 > Send time-nuts mailing list submissions to > time-nuts@febo.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > time-nuts-request@febo.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > time-nuts-owner@febo.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of time-nuts digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Setting Rubidium to match GPS source (Magnus Danielson) > 2. Re: Setting Rubidium to match GPS source (SAIDJACK@aol.com) > 3. Re: Setting Rubidium to match GPS source (SAIDJACK@aol.com) > 4. Re: Setting Rubidium to match GPS source (ernieperes@aol.com) > 5. Re: Setting Rubidium to match GPS source (SAIDJACK@aol.com) > 6. Re: Setting Rubidium to match GPS source (Bruce Griffiths) > 7. Re: Setting Rubidium to match GPS source (Scott Mace) > 8. Re: Setting Rubidium to match GPS source (SAIDJACK@aol.com) > 9. Re: Setting Rubidium to match GPS source (SAIDJACK@aol.com) > 10. Re: Setting Rubidium to match GPS source (Hal Murray) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:10:35 +0200 (CEST) > From: Magnus Danielson <magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting Rubidium to match GPS source > To: time-nuts@febo.com, peterawson@earthlink.net > Message-ID: <20070928.181035.287274618.cfmd@bredband.net> > Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii > > From: "Pete" <peterawson@earthlink.net> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting Rubidium to match GPS source > Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:07:29 -0600 > Message-ID: <000e01c801e1$4da7efa0$0200a8c0@BASE1> > > Pete, > >> Using oscilloscopes to measure relative phase has been widely >> used for a long time. The setup appears in many H-P Op/Srv >> manuals in the adjustment procedure section to calibrate the >> instrument timebase to a shop standard. >> >> But, it's not a useful technique for settings more precise than >> 1 or 2E-10 in the best situation. >> >> The process degrades badly as the 'scope sweep speed >> increases past 10ns/div since a 10MHz sinewave slope is >> approaching a rather flat line. Watching 2 rather flat lines >> for precise zero crossings isn't as simple as it seems. In >> addition, any noise/drift or outright shifts in vertical position >> obscure the result & aren't unusual during a 16 minute window. > > This is why you gain up both channels more and more. This converts them > more > into vertical lines again and you can zoom in more. However, my experience > is > that evenetually the 1/f phase-noise will become so apparent that the > average > motion due to frequency error becomes harder to detect by eye. > > The method is thus still limited. We have better methods available (i.e. > various TIC systems). > >> Delayed sweep operation just adds more uncertainty, so >> you end up waiting for the phase difference to drift to the >> point that both traces are displayed in the same window. >> But now, they won't stay there for 16 minutes, unless they're >> already VERY close to matching. The whole process demands >> that you walk your way down to locking up the 2 sources. >> It's more painful than it sounds! > > Can be. The delayed trigger window as such only require a short-term > stability > and for 10 MHz we are talking about up to 100 ns. Just as with a > time-error > estimator for a TIC. > > Cheers, > Magnus > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 16:43:57 EDT > From: SAIDJACK@aol.com > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting Rubidium to match GPS source > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Message-ID: <cbf.14e73e6c.342ec18d@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > In a message dated 9/28/2007 02:07:08 Pacific Daylight Time, > hmurray@megapathdsl.net writes: > >>In this context, how stable is a GPSDO? If I used a Cesium for the sync >>input, how much fuzz would I see on a GPSDO output if I watched it wander >>back and forth for a day? > > > > Hi HMurray, > > depends on the GPSDO. On the Fury for example you can expect the unit to > wander less than +-15ns back and forth over a period of 1 Day. That's a > deviation of about 3.5E-013 or so per 24 hours. > > This wander depends on how good the hold position is that is set inside > the > GPSDO's GPS receiver, as well as the stability of the OCXO, and the > quality of > the GPS receiver. > > All standard GPS receivers have problems with height: > > We see a range of about +-2 Meters max on the height on the Motorola M12+ > receiver on different Fury units for example. The newer M12M > motorola/iLotus > receiver is slightly better than this. > > This would lead to a worst case error of up to 12ns just due to this > antenna > position error, slightly more than a good Cesium would wander. > > Said > > > > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 16:48:58 EDT > From: SAIDJACK@aol.com > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting Rubidium to match GPS source > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Message-ID: <cf0.1be3cc03.342ec2ba@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > In a message dated 9/28/2007 02:07:08 Pacific Daylight Time, > hmurray@megapathdsl.net writes: > >>In this context, how stable is a GPSDO? If I used a Cesium for the sync >>input, how much fuzz would I see on a GPSDO output if I watched it wander >>back and forth for a day? > > > > > Hi guys, > > forgot to mention: the Fury GPSDO is now available as an OEM PCB with SMA > connectors to connect an external OCXO, rather than have one on-board. Any > steerable 10MHz Oscillator will work, such as Rb's, and even Cesiums with > EFC > input. > > Would anyone be interested in these PCB's as a building block for a "home > made" GPSDO? All that needs to be done is connect an OCXO you may have > laying > around using the SMA connections, add power and antenna, and the hardware > is > done. The software can be adjusted to match and fine-tune different OCXO > parameters via an RS-232 terminal, and SCPI (English language) commands. > > We are planning to offer these for slightly less than $600 each, and if > enough interest is here then we may be able to offer a discount for > time-nuts. > > Let me know, > thanks, > Said > > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 17:12:01 -0400 > From: ernieperes@aol.com > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting Rubidium to match GPS source > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Message-ID: <8C9D02B59028501-DA8-DE3@WEBMAIL-DC21.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > Hi SAID, > > > > I am interested about this OEM PCB with external OCXO, due to the reason I > have 3 HP OCXO 10811 and the other one, so please put me on the waiting > list. > > > > Many thanks and best regards, > > > > Ernie. HG5ED > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: SAIDJACK@aol.com > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Sent: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:48 pm > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting Rubidium to match GPS source > > > > > > In a message dated 9/28/2007 02:07:08 Pacific Daylight Time, > hmurray@megapathdsl.net writes: > >>In this context, how stable is a GPSDO? If I used a Cesium for the sync >>input, how much fuzz would I see on a GPSDO output if I watched it wander >>back and forth for a day? > > > > > Hi guys, > > forgot to mention: the Fury GPSDO is now available as an OEM PCB with SMA > connectors to connect an external OCXO, rather than have one on-board. Any > steerable 10MHz Oscillator will work, such as Rb's, and even Cesiums with > EFC > input. > > Would anyone be interested in these PCB's as a building block for a "home > made" GPSDO? All that needs to be done is connect an OCXO you may have > laying > around using the SMA connections, add power and antenna, and the hardware > is > done. The software can be adjusted to match and fine-tune different OCXO > parameters via an RS-232 terminal, and SCPI (English language) commands. > > We are planning to offer these for slightly less than $600 each, and if > enough interest is here then we may be able to offer a discount for > time-nuts. > > Let me know, > thanks, > Said > > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - > http://mail.aol.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:24:04 EDT > From: SAIDJACK@aol.com > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting Rubidium to match GPS source > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Cc: saidjack@jackson-labs.com > Message-ID: <ca9.19561515.342ed904@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > In a message dated 9/28/2007 14:13:34 Pacific Daylight Time, > ernieperes@aol.com writes: > > >>I am interested about this OEM PCB with external OCXO, due to the reason >>I > have 3 HP OCXO >10811 and the other one, so please put me on the waiting > list. > > > > > Hi Ernie, > > no problem, 10811's are great. Will let you know. > > Our EFC output is 0V to 5V, so you can set the 10811 with the mechanical > adjust to have a nominal voltage of 2.5V, I did that to one of my 10811's, > works > perfectly. > > Fury supports both positive and negative EFC slope via software command, > so > anything that can use 0V to 5V and has 10MHz output should work. > > If an OCXO needs -5V to 5V (some Wenzels need that for example) then a > simple external Opamp circuit can shift the range from unipolar to > bipolar. > > bye, > Said > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 11:01:45 +1200 > From: Bruce Griffiths <bruce.griffiths@xtra.co.nz> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting Rubidium to match GPS source > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Message-ID: <46FD87D9.3040206@xtra.co.nz> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > SAIDJACK@aol.com wrote: >> Hi HMurray, >> >> depends on the GPSDO. On the Fury for example you can expect the unit to >> wander less than +-15ns back and forth over a period of 1 Day. That's a >> deviation of about 3.5E-013 or so per 24 hours. >> >> This wander depends on how good the hold position is that is set inside >> the >> GPSDO's GPS receiver, as well as the stability of the OCXO, and the >> quality of >> the GPS receiver. >> >> All standard GPS receivers have problems with height: >> >> We see a range of about +-2 Meters max on the height on the Motorola M12+ >> receiver on different Fury units for example. The newer M12M >> motorola/iLotus >> receiver is slightly better than this. >> >> This would lead to a worst case error of up to 12ns just due to this >> antenna >> position error, slightly more than a good Cesium would wander. >> >> Said >> >> >> > Said > > Where does the 12ns figure come from? > > Surely a height error of 2m leads to a timing error of about 6.6ns for a > particular SV when that SV is directly overhead. > When the SV isnt directly overhead a 2m error in height contributes less > error than this to the slant range and the corresponding propagation > delay error from the SV to the antenna will be less than 6.6ns. > > Bruce > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:12:10 -0500 > From: Scott Mace <smace@intt.net> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting Rubidium to match GPS source > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Message-ID: <46FD8A4A.3030506@intt.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Put me on the list. I'm interested in using it with LPRO-101 units. > > Scott > > SAIDJACK@aol.com wrote: >> ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false >> Errors-To: time-nuts-bounces+smace=intt.net@febo.com RETRY >> >> >> In a message dated 9/28/2007 02:07:08 Pacific Daylight Time, >> hmurray@megapathdsl.net writes: >> >>> In this context, how stable is a GPSDO? If I used a Cesium for the >>> sync >>> input, how much fuzz would I see on a GPSDO output if I watched it >>> wander >>> back and forth for a day? >> >> >> >> >> Hi guys, >> >> forgot to mention: the Fury GPSDO is now available as an OEM PCB with >> SMA >> connectors to connect an external OCXO, rather than have one on-board. >> Any >> steerable 10MHz Oscillator will work, such as Rb's, and even Cesiums with >> EFC >> input. >> >> Would anyone be interested in these PCB's as a building block for a "home >> made" GPSDO? All that needs to be done is connect an OCXO you may have >> laying >> around using the SMA connections, add power and antenna, and the >> hardware is >> done. The software can be adjusted to match and fine-tune different OCXO >> parameters via an RS-232 terminal, and SCPI (English language) commands. >> >> We are planning to offer these for slightly less than $600 each, and if >> enough interest is here then we may be able to offer a discount for >> time-nuts. >> >> Let me know, >> thanks, >> Said >> >> >> >> >> ************************************** See what's new at >> http://www.aol.com >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 20:08:52 EDT > From: SAIDJACK@aol.com > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting Rubidium to match GPS source > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Message-ID: <c35.1e7553ad.342ef194@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > In a message dated 9/28/2007 16:14:00 Pacific Daylight Time, > smace@intt.net > writes: > >>Put me on the list. I'm interested in using it with LPRO-101 units. > >> Scott > > > Got it Scott, > > bye, > Said > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 20:07:50 EDT > From: SAIDJACK@aol.com > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting Rubidium to match GPS source > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Message-ID: <cc5.1d8a5045.342ef156@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > In a message dated 9/28/2007 16:02:30 Pacific Daylight Time, > bruce.griffiths@xtra.co.nz writes: > > Surely a height error of 2m leads to a timing error of about 6.6ns for a > particular SV when that SV is directly overhead. > When the SV isnt directly overhead a 2m error in height contributes less > error than this to the slant range and the corresponding propagation > delay error from the SV to the antenna will be less than 6.6ns. > > Bruce > > > > Hi Bruce, > > it's not 2m, it's about +-2m = 4m :) > > bye, > Said > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 17:26:48 -0700 > From: Hal Murray <hmurray@megapathdsl.net> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting Rubidium to match GPS source > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Message-ID: <20070929002649.91EDFBE29@ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >> Our EFC output is 0V to 5V, so you can set the 10811 with the >> mechanical adjust to have a nominal voltage of 2.5V, I did that to >> one of my 10811's, works perfectly. > >> If an OCXO needs -5V to 5V (some Wenzels need that for example) then >> a simple external Opamp circuit can shift the range from unipolar to >> bipolar. > > How stable is a typical well-designed DAC output over temperature and > whatever? > > What about a couple of extra op-amps? > > > Do any OCXO vendors offer the DAC inside the oven with a digital > interface? > That seems like the obvious way to reduce temperature dependencies. > > > > -- > These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list > time-nuts@febo.com > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > End of time-nuts Digest, Vol 38, Issue 41 > *****************************************