Re: [PUP] Cruising Budgets
I think this is very helpful. My goal is a circumnavigation, so there are some costs that will trend up from the budget you describe. For instance, the distances traveled will be much more, so fuel will be higher. Entry fees in ports seem to be something that can add up. Brad Smith at Nordhavn cautioned me that many times corrupt port officials expect a bribe of one sort or another.
As you observed the variables are so vast they can drive the numbers way far apart. I think the take away is the realization that above a certain number, say $2,000 a month, it's doable. If you look at a budget of $3,000 a month there is room for things like an extra trip home each year, shore trips of a few days to visit local sights, dinners are really nice places... You could make the argument that the real issue is coming up with a budget that represents the difference between the shore life and the cruising life. If I factor in taxes, maintenance, insurance and other items on the house I live in, the cruising budget becomes increasingly attractive. The one place where a significant differences take shape is an appreciating asset versus a depreciating one. In the Puget Sound area housing has increased 10 to 20% per year. The house I bought for $435k 6 years ago is now worth $750. If that had been a Nordhavn 40 I'd think it would have cost about the same, but I'd be selling it at a slight loss (based on a quick look at Yachtworld). I realize this has been a crazy period for house prices and that it's not expected to continue.
At this point in time, the thing that probably makes the most sense is to sell this house, use the majority of it to buy the boat, put some of it into a downsized condo (so we have it to return to), and finance the residual. This is the line of thinking that got me looking at used boats rather then new ones. There are so many wonderful used Nordhavns on the market you would be crazy not to consider this option. It's astounding to me that so many people go out and spend a fortune on a Nordhavn and put it up for sale in 2 or 3 years. These boats are barley broken in and can be available at reasonable prices. Another option I'd consider now, if the Admiral would approve, is one of the Diesel Ducks. They are a real value.
In summary, I do believe a budget between 2 and 3K/mo would work for most people, us included. Thanks!
Scott Bulger
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Patrick Gerety alohaboat@yahoo.com
Scott Bulger asks, "what does it cost to cruise for an
extended period." This question has come up over and
over again in the print media and on other internet
forums. The answers vary from $100 per month to
several thousand per month to who cares - if you own a
boat why worry.
Latitude 38 magazine here in California printed the
results of a budget survey of cruising boats they took
about 5 years ago. This was a very detailed survey
and had the budgets broken down into several
categories and line items. The survey was intended
for the sailing crowd so there was a budget item for
"sail replacement" which would not be applicable for
power boats. However, I was surprised at the amount
of money the respondents were spending on diesel fuel,
not a whole lot different than what I intend to spend
with a power boat. The results seem to indicate that
there are a lot of sailboats out there cruising who
spend a significant amount of time under power. I
don't have the results in front of me, but as I
remember, the expenses ran from $100 per month to
around $4000 per month. As I recall the median budget
was around the $1200 per month range - remember this
was about 5 or 6 years ago.
--- scottebulger@comcast.net wrote:
My goal is a
circumnavigation, so there are some costs that will
trend up from the budget you describe. For
instance, the distances traveled will be much more,
so fuel will be higher.
Yes, your fuel cost will be higher but maybe not that
much. I factored in long range voyaging too. Say you
do a circumnavigation, and you do it over a three year
period, you may AVERAGE only a 1000 miles per month
over that three year period. That is about a third
more than what I figured.
If we do a circumnavigation, we will do it very
liesurely taking anywhere from 3 to 5 years. Anything
less is too much like work in my opinion.
I think the take
away is the realization that above a certain number,
say $2,000 a month, it's doable.
I agree, you start to have much more flexibility above
a certain number.
If you look at a
budget of $3,000 a month there is room for things
like an extra trip home each year, shore trips of a
few days to visit local sights, dinners are really
nice places...
Depending on where you are in the world - Papua/New
Guinea as opposed to Monte Carlo - you will be able to
do these things on much less than $3K per month.
At this point in time, the thing that probably makes
the most sense is to sell this house, use the
majority of it to buy the boat, put some of it into
a downsized condo (so we have it to return to), and
finance the residual.
That makes sense to me, but this is a personal
decision and opinions will vary greatly.
These boats are barley
broken in
You mean it's a cocktail boat!?
and can be available at reasonable prices.
Another option I'd consider now, if the Admiral
would approve, is one of the Diesel Ducks. They are
a real value.
Resale value may or may not be important to you.
In summary, I do believe a budget between 2 and
3K/mo would work for most people, us included.
That is what my personal research shows. You can do
it for much, much more and you can do it for $100 per
month in a sailboat. The choice is yours.
Patrick
Willard 40PH
ALOHA
San Pedro
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Patrick references the magazine Latitude 38 which is
probably the best single reference point for cruising
lifestyle questions like this despite its
sailor-focus. It's a free periodical published in
Sausalito, just outside of San Francisco. It's
distributed free. Unfortunately, while it can be found
in some West Marine stores elsewhere (So Cal, PNW),
it's not widely distributed because it's advertiser
supported, and the advertisers are local (though as a
testament to their cruiser appeal, there are a few ads
for marinas and yards in Ensenada, El Salvador,
Tahiti, and other locations). The publishers are
ex-hippie-types and are quite irreverent. As the
readership has aged, it's gotten slightly less
caustic, but there's still an occasional off-color
comment or picture that's rather unapologetically
published.
This is a great magazine to subscribe to - every month
has 4-5 pages devoted to cruiser updates around the
world, and you will meet all kinds of people on all
sorts of budgets. Yes, they're all sailors, but world
cruising has less to do with the platform than the
lifestyle. Of course, you have to skip over the
sailboat racing sheets, but everything else is pretty
interesting, though some has local appeal only
(stories on cruising the Sacramento Delta for
example).
As Patrick mentions, cruising budgets seem to group in
the $2K-$3K per month range, probably similar tastes
to many on this list. Clearly, some have extravegant
budgets (one family travels with a nanny), others
extreme in the other direction. An interview this
month had a shoe-string boater who has been roaming
the oceans for years with 3 circumnavigations. He
departed Central America for the Sourth Pacific with
$150 - that's it. And managed to find a shipwreck to
salvage along the way to replenish his coffers. It
takes all kinds.
Good rag, good people. Totally not for sale (no
glowing boat reviews).
Peter
www.SeaSkills.com
=======================
Peter Pisciotta
415-902-8439
--- Peter Pisciotta peter@seaskills.com wrote:
the magazine Latitude 38 which is
probably the best single reference point for
cruising
lifestyle questions like this despite its
sailor-focus. It's a free periodical
There are three ways to access Latitude 38 magazine
- On the West Coast pick up a free copy at West
Marine - Purchase a mailed subscription through their
website - Subscribe to the free 'Lectronic Latitude which
will be emailed to you about once a week. It is
available on their website. This is a "teaser" issue
with about 4 news stories per issue
The publishers are
ex-hippie-types and are quite irreverent. As the
readership has aged, it's gotten slightly less
caustic, but there's still an occasional off-color
comment or picture that's rather unapologetically
published.
Richard, the publisher and editor, is not shy about
stating his opinion regardless of who it might offend.
He has no qualms about publishing a tasteful, topless
photo if it is appropriate. Oh my, you ought to see
the letters to the editor! And Richard never
apologizes.
This is a great magazine to subscribe to
It is, by far, my favorite boating rag. I have found
copies in Cabo, La Paz, P.V., and Zihua. I understand
that people run across copies in the Caribbean too.
has 4-5 pages devoted to cruiser updates around the
world,
I think it's probably more like a dozen or so pages of
cruiser stories.
cruising has less to do with the platform than the
lifestyle.
Amen! Stories abound of the trawler folks tending to
hang with the sailing crowd more so than the V bottom
crowd.
Good rag, good people. Totally not for sale (no
glowing boat reviews).
There are absolutely no boat review infomercials.
This is more of a news magazine. Stories and news are
told in depth on several pages rather than a paragraph
that you find in the national marine mags.
Richard has always been pro sailing and anti power
boat. But I see his stance softening a bit because of
the positive impact that trawlering is having on the
cruising lifestyle the last few years. Most of us
trawler types come from a sailing background and fit
in nicely with the sailing crowd. You will even find
a number of stories in L38 about sailboats and
trawlers buddy boating to different locations.
It's a terrific magazine, check it out.
Patrick
Willard 40PH
ALOHA
San Pedro
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