To insure or not to insure, crew aka requirements?
I've read a number of postings that advise most insurance companies won't
allow (cover?) you for ocean passages unless you have at least 3 crew
members. As my circumnavigation plans are oriented around my wife and I
being alone 80% of the time, I'm concerned about how to address the
insurance issue. Do most long distance voyagers purchase insurance that
covers the replacement cost of the vessel? If so, how does a couple deal
with the crew requirements that may be called out by the insurance company?
Thanks in advance for sharing your experience with those of us in the
planning stages.
Scott Bulger
Knot@Work, 31' Camano
Email: scottebulger@comcast.net
Scott,
It would seem to me that if you are comfortable doing ocean crossings with
only 2 crew you can't be to concerned about a question like insurance.
What is it that you are insuring against ? A collision at sea with anything
of size is likely to be fatal. A major storm is probably less likely than a
major illness if you are careful with weather.
Aren't you already committed (with two crew) to facing the major risks of
the trip by your own selection already ? What is the value of insurance in
this environment ?
John Harris
I for one disagree with your premise, ergo with your conclusion. A collision
at sea with a whale, a floating container, or any other flotsam is most
likely survivable at trawler speeds, but it could easily lead to the loss of
the boat. Only if I was run down by a commercial ship would I consider my
survival chances small, and we take many measures to reduce this possibility
to an infinitesimal level. A major storm could conceivably sink the boat,
putting me and my wife in the liferaft with the 405MHz EPIRB and a few days
of rations and a larger than tiny chance of survival. But that risk is small
anyway, given the weather information available nowadays.
Hal
John Harris wrote:
It would seem to me that if you are comfortable doing ocean
crossings with only 2 crew you can't be to concerned about a
question like insurance.
What is it that you are insuring against ? A collision at sea
with anything of size is likely to be fatal. A major storm is
probably less likely than a major illness if you are careful
with weather.
Aren't you already committed (with two crew) to facing the
major risks of the trip by your own selection already ? What
is the value of insurance in this environment ?
John Harris
Passagemaking-Under-Power Mailing List
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Help - Insurance ?????????
I am loving the insurance discussion and thank all for contributing. I am
planning my passagemaking and have to put aside the dollars (budget) for
that. Now how much should I worry about insurance and what should I budget
or how much risk can I accept?
Hull and machinery.
Do I protect the equity in the vessel with insurance or not ? I can recover
financially from losing the vessel. But is this the only way or most cost
effective way I can get liability and riders for content etc.
Liability / Risk
Is it possible that my retirement savings could get cleaned out due to a bad
couple of choices? I cant recover from that. Can I have my bank accounts
cleaned out by Mexican or US court orders. Is there other ways to protect
myself?
Cost / Choices
What's the cost difference for offshore insurance verses coastal coverage.
Two times three times etc. Is there alternative types of coverage like
separate travel and liability? Should I set up a legal entity for some
countries and get liability there for there.
This kind of stuff goes through my head all the time. Any real life
experience is of great help to me so I hope these thoughts get some more
juices flowing.
Does any one know if you can get liability coverage for your savings <
grin>.
Willy
Invader No 1
39 Kishi Conversion
It would seem to me that if you are comfortable doing ocean crossings with
only 2 crew you can't be to concerned about a question like insurance.
What is it that you are insuring against ? A collision at sea with
anything of size is likely to be fatal. A major storm is probably less
likely than a major illness if you are careful with weather.
Aren't you already committed (with two crew) to facing the major risks of
the trip by your own selection already ? What is the value of insurance
in this environment ?
John Harris
Interesting questions, my thoughts:
[John said] It would seem to me that if you are comfortable doing ocean
crossings with only 2 crew you can't be to concerned about a question like
insurance.
[Scott] My lack of experience is showing :). I wouldn't say I'm
comfortable with making an ocean crossing with just two people, but the
reality is my wife and I will be alone almost all the time. We will have to
make crossings with just the two of us. I've observed many comments that
insurance companies won't cover boats with small crews on ocean passages,
thus my question. My perception was that I had to have insurance to be
admitted to some facilities, a belief recently affirmed by comments from
Scott Strickland (was denied entry to a marina in Spain). From a financial
standpoint I may be willing to go without insurance, but if it was available
I'd weigh the benefits and costs, and choose accordingly.
[John] What is it that you are insuring against?
[Scott] I think I need coverage for the following:
a. Complete loss of the vessel. As this represents a substantial
investment, >$500,000, I think there would be value in a policy that would
pay if the boat is lost.
b. Liability. I realize in the US we are much more likely to litigate, and
I don't know what other peoples of the globe think about it, but my
perception is there would be value in a policy that provides some liability
protection. It may be possible that I don't need it until returning to US
waters. I probably wouldn't operate a boat in the US with a good liability
policy, just good sense if someone is hurt, or I hit a dock or
something/someone.
c. Medical evacuation. I'd like to be able to evacuate from a distant
location if medical needs arose. This isn't just for me, it's for my wife.
I could always return to bring the boat home after the medical issues were
taken care of, or hire someone to bring the boat back, or sell it.
I've always looked at insurance as a tool, just like any other tool, it has
benefits and costs. I asked the question because I value the feedback of
others. Is it correct to conclude that you believe if I'm foolhardy enough
to do this, then insurance is the least of my worries? As mentioned in
another posting, I'm planning on surviving the trip, and I'm willing to
spend a few bucks to insure my financial status in the event unforeseen
events unfold. Now, if it's 25% of the cost of the boat, I may evaluate a
different level of financial reserves to keep available.
Scott Bulger, Knot@Work
31' Camano, Seattle WA
Hi John,
If one is just looking at the voyage across and confident of timeing and
crew experience to make the voayage without problem the prudent skipper may
well be wise to chose self insurance and not purchase a policy. However,
bearing in mind that foreign jurisdiction can impose upon us
-----Original Message-----
From: passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of
John Harris
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 4:29 PM
To: Passagemaking Under Power List
Subject: Re: [PUP] To insure or not to insure, crew aka requirements?
Scott,
It would seem to me that if you are comfortable doing ocean crossings with
only 2 crew you can't be to concerned about a question like insurance.
What is it that you are insuring against ? A collision at sea with anything
of size is likely to be fatal. A major storm is probably less likely than a
major illness if you are careful with weather.
Aren't you already committed (with two crew) to facing the major risks of
the trip by your own selection already ? What is the value of insurance in
this environment ?
John Harris
Passagemaking-Under-Power Mailing List
My experience on insurance costs are that coastal insurance with a hurricane
season exclusion for Florida and the southern coastal states runs about .5
to .6% of the boat value. The rate is about the same for the Med.
Atlantic crossing insurance runs about .9 to 1.0% if you prove competence
and have 4 capable crew. Without the above provisions I do not have any
price information to offer.
Policy has a 1% deductible and covers dingy, and oil spill risks.
Regards, John