citizen speaking on Agenda item
Fellow attorneys:
One of my towns has omitted Public Appearances on the Agenda, but has continued to allow citizens to sign up and speak on specific Agenda items.At a recent meeting, it seemed to me that the citizen (who had signed up to speak on several Agenda items) was peppering the Town Trustees with questions.After a few minutes, I admonished that the citizen could speak for the allotted time, but did not have the right to demand specific answers to repeated questions.Citizen disputes my opinion, and says while that may be correct under Public Appearances, she does have the right to demand answers under Specific Agenda items.Any attorney general's opinions or other information? If I was wrong, I certainly need to know that, too.
Thanks,
Kay Wall
My understanding is that, as a general rule, if a citizen is allowed to speak on an item (whether it is public agenda or not) the citizen can make comments and statements to the council. However, while the citizen may ask questions, the city council is not there to answer the citizen’s questions but to listen to their comments. Part of the reason is simple and a matter of the Open Meeting Act: to get a “council answer” there would have to be a vote on whether the council all agree to the answer, and the council can’t take a vote on an item unless it is listed on the agenda as an item to be acted upon. The citizen has no right to demand an answer from the council to any question. The citizen can certainly pose questions to her councilmember and expect an answer, and if the answer is not forthcoming that is an issue for the next election.
Jonathan E. Miller
City Attorney
City of Mustang
1501 N. Mustang Road
Mustang, Oklahoma 73064
Telephone: (405) 376-7746
Facsimile: (405) 376-7721
This email is sent by the City Attorney and may contain information that is privileged or confidential. If you received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and delete the email and any attachments. If you are a and officer, employee or agent of the City of Mustang, you should not share this email with others. Sharing this email may result in a loss of the attorney-client privilege.
From: Kay Robbins Wall lkrw@sbcglobal.net
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2022 2:41 PM
To: OAMA Luistserv oama@lists.imla.org
Subject: [CAUTION: SUSPECT SENDER] [Oama] citizen speaking on Agenda item
Fellow attorneys:
One of my towns has omitted Public Appearances on the Agenda, but has continued to allow citizens to sign up and speak on specific Agenda items.
At a recent meeting, it seemed to me that the citizen (who had signed up to speak on several Agenda items) was peppering the Town Trustees with questions.
After a few minutes, I admonished that the citizen could speak for the allotted time, but did not have the right to demand specific answers to repeated questions.
Citizen disputes my opinion, and says while that may be correct under Public Appearances, she does have the right to demand answers under Specific Agenda items.
Any attorney general's opinions or other information? If I was wrong, I certainly need to know that, too.
Thanks,
Kay Wall
So let's take one step back for a second and ask a different question - can
a Councilmember compel another Councilmember answer a question about a
specific item? Councilmembers can speak and they can certainly ask
questions. When posed to staff, the CEO of the City (Manager, Admin, Mayor,
etc.) can order an employee to respond as part of their job (and, if they
decline, there may be a basis to take disciplinary action for
insubordination). But there's no legal obligation compelling a
Councilmember to answer a question posed by another Councilmember.
Can a Councilmember demand that a citizen in the audience answer a question
that they pose to the citizen on an item? Set aside the question as to
whether that is proper or whether the Mayor would even allow a citizen to
respond and speak. Fundamentally, what legal duty would the citizen have to
respond to the Councilmember? None!
There is no legal obligation for Councilmembers to speak or even attend
meetings (miss too many and there are consequences, of course). The OMA
does not afford a right to speak at meetings - it establishes a right to
observe government at work. Other statutes (e.g. zoning) may require a
public hearing before the governing body can act. But even in that context
a public hearing allows for citizens to provide feedback - they don't
impose any legal obligation for governing body members to respond to
questions.
Elected Officials answer to their constituents at the ballot box. Citizens
can ask them questions, but there is no legal duty to respond even on the
campaign trail (imagine if our politicians at any level did have to
actually answer our questions!!!). The governing body can choose to let
citizens speak on agenda items (a bad idea, but that's just my opinion).
But there is no obligation for the members of the body to listen to them,
much less respond to questions the citizen poses.
Matt
On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 2:48 PM Jon Miller JMiller@cityofmustang.org wrote:
My understanding is that, as a general rule, if a citizen is allowed to
speak on an item (whether it is public agenda or not) the citizen can make
comments and statements to the council. However, while the citizen may ask
questions, the city council is not there to answer the citizen’s questions
but to listen to their comments. Part of the reason is simple and a matter
of the Open Meeting Act: to get a “council answer” there would have to be a
vote on whether the council all agree to the answer, and the council can’t
take a vote on an item unless it is listed on the agenda as an item to be
acted upon. The citizen has no right to demand an answer from the council
to any question. The citizen can certainly pose questions to her
councilmember and expect an answer, and if the answer is not forthcoming
that is an issue for the next election.
Jonathan E. Miller
City Attorney
City of Mustang
1501 N. Mustang Road
Mustang, Oklahoma 73064
Telephone: (405) 376-7746
Facsimile: (405) 376-7721
This email is sent by the City Attorney and may contain information that
is privileged or confidential. If you received this email in error, please
notify the sender by reply email and delete the email and any attachments.
If you are a and officer, employee or agent of the City of Mustang, you
should not share this email with others. Sharing this email may result in
a loss of the attorney-client privilege.
From: Kay Robbins Wall lkrw@sbcglobal.net
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2022 2:41 PM
To: OAMA Luistserv oama@lists.imla.org
Subject: [CAUTION: SUSPECT SENDER] [Oama] citizen speaking on Agenda
item
Fellow attorneys:
One of my towns has omitted Public Appearances on the Agenda, but has
continued to allow citizens to sign up and speak on specific Agenda items.
At a recent meeting, it seemed to me that the citizen (who had signed up
to speak on several Agenda items) was peppering the Town Trustees with
questions.
After a few minutes, I admonished that the citizen could speak for the
allotted time, but did not have the right to demand specific answers to
repeated questions.
Citizen disputes my opinion, and says while that may be correct under
Public Appearances, she does have the right to demand answers under
Specific Agenda items.
Any attorney general's opinions or other information? If I was wrong, I
certainly need to know that, too.
Thanks,
Kay Wall
Oama mailing list -- oama@lists.imla.org
To unsubscribe send an email to oama-leave@lists.imla.org
I agree with Matt and Jon. I have, unfortunately, been in some meetings where this came up.
I would also caution that when responding to any comments or concerns made at a meeting, be sure your council members do not "take action" on anything brought up that is not listed on the agenda to do so. Like when a person has a concern and the Mayor decides to look to an administrator or chief and says "look into that" or "what can we do about it". You start down a VERY slippery slope.
Larry Vickers, Jr.
Attorney At Law, P.L.L.C.
600 Emporia Street, Suite B
Muskogee, Oklahoma 74401
Phone: 918-682-5900
&
303 South Thornton
Vian, Oklahoma 74962
Phone: 918-773-4004
http://www.lvickerslaw.comhttp://www.lvickerslaw.com/
E-mails from this firm normally contain confidential and privileged material, and are for the sole use of the intended recipient. Use or distribution by an unintended recipient is prohibited, and may be a violation of law. If you believe that you received this e-mail in error, please do not read this e-mail or any attached items. Please delete the e-mail and all attachments, including any copies thereof, and inform the sender that you have deleted the e-mail, all attachments and any copies thereof. Thank you.
From: Matt Love matt.love@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2022 3:34:17 PM
To: Jon Miller
Cc: OAMA Luistserv
Subject: [Oama] Re: [CAUTION: SUSPECT SENDER] citizen speaking on Agenda item
So let's take one step back for a second and ask a different question - can a Councilmember compel another Councilmember answer a question about a specific item? Councilmembers can speak and they can certainly ask questions. When posed to staff, the CEO of the City (Manager, Admin, Mayor, etc.) can order an employee to respond as part of their job (and, if they decline, there may be a basis to take disciplinary action for insubordination). But there's no legal obligation compelling a Councilmember to answer a question posed by another Councilmember.
Can a Councilmember demand that a citizen in the audience answer a question that they pose to the citizen on an item? Set aside the question as to whether that is proper or whether the Mayor would even allow a citizen to respond and speak. Fundamentally, what legal duty would the citizen have to respond to the Councilmember? None!
There is no legal obligation for Councilmembers to speak or even attend meetings (miss too many and there are consequences, of course). The OMA does not afford a right to speak at meetings - it establishes a right to observe government at work. Other statutes (e.g. zoning) may require a public hearing before the governing body can act. But even in that context a public hearing allows for citizens to provide feedback - they don't impose any legal obligation for governing body members to respond to questions.
Elected Officials answer to their constituents at the ballot box. Citizens can ask them questions, but there is no legal duty to respond even on the campaign trail (imagine if our politicians at any level did have to actually answer our questions!!!). The governing body can choose to let citizens speak on agenda items (a bad idea, but that's just my opinion). But there is no obligation for the members of the body to listen to them, much less respond to questions the citizen poses.
Matt
On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 2:48 PM Jon Miller <JMiller@cityofmustang.orgmailto:JMiller@cityofmustang.org> wrote:
My understanding is that, as a general rule, if a citizen is allowed to speak on an item (whether it is public agenda or not) the citizen can make comments and statements to the council. However, while the citizen may ask questions, the city council is not there to answer the citizen’s questions but to listen to their comments. Part of the reason is simple and a matter of the Open Meeting Act: to get a “council answer” there would have to be a vote on whether the council all agree to the answer, and the council can’t take a vote on an item unless it is listed on the agenda as an item to be acted upon. The citizen has no right to demand an answer from the council to any question. The citizen can certainly pose questions to her councilmember and expect an answer, and if the answer is not forthcoming that is an issue for the next election.
Jonathan E. Miller
City Attorney
City of Mustang
1501 N. Mustang Road
Mustang, Oklahoma 73064
Telephone: (405) 376-7746
Facsimile: (405) 376-7721
This email is sent by the City Attorney and may contain information that is privileged or confidential. If you received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and delete the email and any attachments. If you are a and officer, employee or agent of the City of Mustang, you should not share this email with others. Sharing this email may result in a loss of the attorney-client privilege.
From: Kay Robbins Wall <lkrw@sbcglobal.netmailto:lkrw@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2022 2:41 PM
To: OAMA Luistserv <oama@lists.imla.orgmailto:oama@lists.imla.org>
Subject: [CAUTION: SUSPECT SENDER] [Oama] citizen speaking on Agenda item
Fellow attorneys:
One of my towns has omitted Public Appearances on the Agenda, but has continued to allow citizens to sign up and speak on specific Agenda items.
At a recent meeting, it seemed to me that the citizen (who had signed up to speak on several Agenda items) was peppering the Town Trustees with questions.
After a few minutes, I admonished that the citizen could speak for the allotted time, but did not have the right to demand specific answers to repeated questions.
Citizen disputes my opinion, and says while that may be correct under Public Appearances, she does have the right to demand answers under Specific Agenda items.
Any attorney general's opinions or other information? If I was wrong, I certainly need to know that, too.
Thanks,
Kay Wall
Oama mailing list -- oama@lists.imla.orgmailto:oama@lists.imla.org
To unsubscribe send an email to oama-leave@lists.imla.orgmailto:oama-leave@lists.imla.org
Piggybacking on Larry's excellent comment, I think a governing body can get
itself into trouble if it tries to engage with one another or even with the
speaker about a topic or issue the speaker has raised if it is not on the
agenda. We know that any business that is going to be conducted must be
listed on the agenda. The AG issued an opinion a couple of years ago
reiterating that conducting business is more than just voting on items and
includes the entire deliberative process. 2020 OK AG 4. I've not been able
to get my Mayor where I'm City Attorney to remove the Public Comments item
from our agenda, but I do have my Councilmembers all trained to not engage
or respond or discuss any topic that a speaker raises if it's not on the
agenda. Instead, I've got them trained to where, if they want to discuss a
topic raised by a speaker, they merely wait until the speaker is done and
ask the Clerk to please include an agenda item on the next meeting's agenda
so that the Council can discuss the issue.
On Wed, Feb 9, 2022 at 11:42 AM Larry Vickers larry@lvickerslaw.com wrote:
I agree with Matt and Jon. I have, unfortunately, been in some meetings
where this came up.
I would also caution that when responding to any comments or concerns made
at a meeting, be sure your council members do not "take action" on anything
brought up that is not listed on the agenda to do so. Like when a person
has a concern and the Mayor decides to look to an administrator or chief
and says "look into that" or "what can we do about it". You start down a
VERY slippery slope.
Larry Vickers, Jr.
Attorney At Law, P.L.L.C.
600 Emporia Street, Suite B
*Muskogee, Oklahoma 74401 *
Phone: 918-682-5900
&
303 South Thornton
Vian, Oklahoma 74962
Phone: 918-773-4004
http://www.lvickerslaw.com http://www.lvickerslaw.com/
E-mails from this firm normally contain confidential and privileged
material, and are for the sole use of the intended recipient. Use or
distribution by an unintended recipient is prohibited, and may be a
violation of law. If you believe that you received this e-mail in error,
please do not read this e-mail or any attached items. Please delete the
e-mail and all attachments, including any copies thereof, and inform the
sender that you have deleted the e-mail, all attachments and any copies
thereof. Thank you.
From: Matt Love matt.love@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2022 3:34:17 PM
To: Jon Miller
Cc: OAMA Luistserv
Subject: [Oama] Re: [CAUTION: SUSPECT SENDER] citizen speaking on
Agenda item
So let's take one step back for a second and ask a different question -
can a Councilmember compel another Councilmember answer a question about a
specific item? Councilmembers can speak and they can certainly ask
questions. When posed to staff, the CEO of the City (Manager, Admin, Mayor,
etc.) can order an employee to respond as part of their job (and, if they
decline, there may be a basis to take disciplinary action for
insubordination). But there's no legal obligation compelling a
Councilmember to answer a question posed by another Councilmember.
Can a Councilmember demand that a citizen in the audience answer a
question that they pose to the citizen on an item? Set aside the question
as to whether that is proper or whether the Mayor would even allow a
citizen to respond and speak. Fundamentally, what legal duty would the
citizen have to respond to the Councilmember? None!
There is no legal obligation for Councilmembers to speak or even attend
meetings (miss too many and there are consequences, of course). The OMA
does not afford a right to speak at meetings - it establishes a right to
observe government at work. Other statutes (e.g. zoning) may require a
public hearing before the governing body can act. But even in that context
a public hearing allows for citizens to provide feedback - they don't
impose any legal obligation for governing body members to respond to
questions.
Elected Officials answer to their constituents at the ballot box. Citizens
can ask them questions, but there is no legal duty to respond even on the
campaign trail (imagine if our politicians at any level did have to
actually answer our questions!!!). The governing body can choose to let
citizens speak on agenda items (a bad idea, but that's just my opinion).
But there is no obligation for the members of the body to listen to them,
much less respond to questions the citizen poses.
Matt
On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 2:48 PM Jon Miller JMiller@cityofmustang.org
wrote:
My understanding is that, as a general rule, if a citizen is allowed to
speak on an item (whether it is public agenda or not) the citizen can make
comments and statements to the council. However, while the citizen may ask
questions, the city council is not there to answer the citizen’s questions
but to listen to their comments. Part of the reason is simple and a matter
of the Open Meeting Act: to get a “council answer” there would have to be a
vote on whether the council all agree to the answer, and the council can’t
take a vote on an item unless it is listed on the agenda as an item to be
acted upon. The citizen has no right to demand an answer from the council
to any question. The citizen can certainly pose questions to her
councilmember and expect an answer, and if the answer is not forthcoming
that is an issue for the next election.
Jonathan E. Miller
City Attorney
City of Mustang
1501 N. Mustang Road
Mustang, Oklahoma 73064
Telephone: (405) 376-7746
Facsimile: (405) 376-7721
This email is sent by the City Attorney and may contain information that
is privileged or confidential. If you received this email in error, please
notify the sender by reply email and delete the email and any attachments.
If you are a and officer, employee or agent of the City of Mustang, you
should not share this email with others. Sharing this email may result in
a loss of the attorney-client privilege.
From: Kay Robbins Wall lkrw@sbcglobal.net
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2022 2:41 PM
To: OAMA Luistserv oama@lists.imla.org
Subject: [CAUTION: SUSPECT SENDER] [Oama] citizen speaking on Agenda
item
Fellow attorneys:
One of my towns has omitted Public Appearances on the Agenda, but has
continued to allow citizens to sign up and speak on specific Agenda items.
At a recent meeting, it seemed to me that the citizen (who had signed up
to speak on several Agenda items) was peppering the Town Trustees with
questions.
After a few minutes, I admonished that the citizen could speak for the
allotted time, but did not have the right to demand specific answers to
repeated questions.
Citizen disputes my opinion, and says while that may be correct under
Public Appearances, she does have the right to demand answers under
Specific Agenda items.
Any attorney general's opinions or other information? If I was wrong, I
certainly need to know that, too.
Thanks,
Kay Wall
Oama mailing list -- oama@lists.imla.org
To unsubscribe send an email to oama-leave@lists.imla.org