RE: TWL: RE: Survey Tip
Hi Keith:
No I am not a surveyor or a lawyer <G> Just a boater with some
experience who is slowly writing a book about "how to buy a boat" so I
have been investigating these transactions. And I have counseled quite
a few novice folks on the process because it hurts so much to see
boating dreams shattered by a catastrophic purchase.
I do not know the asking price of your boat, but a transaction initiated
on EBay would not usually be typical of a 75k - 400k boat, which is the
area that most of the information I related is germane. Maybe you would
be better off using a broker to sell your boat. Like a house, it is
usually a major transaction.
The reason I would not want you to see my survey is because there may
also be some very good things about the boat. As a buyer, I am not
about to enhance the value of your boat in your eyes. In fact I want to
emphasize the deficiencies in order to negotiate a better price.
Even a long list of the most nit-picky things will not dissuade the wise
buyer as long as there is some adjustment in the price as compensation
for the deficiencies. Surveyors usually have some pretty firm
guidelines as to what they consider minor and what is important. In
fact, they usually lay their survey our that way.
Joe Engel
Portland, OR
I've had no luck with brokers yet. I've had the boat listed with two
separate ones that were member brokers so the boat was on Yachtworld the
entire time (about a year and a half). I've steadily lowered the asking
price, to no avail. I've suffered 18+ months of depreciation since the
first guy either couldn't sell it, or wouldn't tell me it was priced too
high. I researched on Yachtworld, and thought it was priced well, but
was probably set too high. Anyway, no luck with brokers asking from
6-10% of the selling price.
You're right that expensive boats aren't the norm on E-Bay. However, in
it's 10 days on there, 2600 folks looked at the listing, and it
generated two bids, one meeting my reserve price. I was hoping to get
the bidding going and run it up through the reserve price, but these
guys hit it on the nose (makes me wonder...) The listing fee was about
$100 for the full-blown featured ad. "Commission" was a flat $40 when it
"sold." Heck, what do you have to lose vs. a broker? I think this is the
way things are headed.
I've never heard of a survey "upping" the price of a boat, especially
when you've got a signed contract that says you're going to sell/buy it
for $X, subject to blah blah blah. Surveys only lower the selling price
by adjusting for problems, as far as I've ever seen. Maybe that's a new
way to write a sales contract... "estimated price based on survey
results, which can be adjusted up or down." Yea, like somebody is going
to sign THAT one.
All kinda makes me wonder what the use is in signing a contract anyway,
since the seller can just walk away at any time for no reason.
Joe Engel wrote:
I do not know the asking price of your boat, but a transaction initiated
on EBay would not usually be typical of a 75k - 400k boat, which is the
area that most of the information I related is germane. Maybe you would
be better off using a broker to sell your boat. Like a house, it is
usually a major transaction.
The reason I would not want you to see my survey is because there may
also be some very good things about the boat. As a buyer, I am not
about to enhance the value of your boat in your eyes. In fact I want to
emphasize the deficiencies in order to negotiate a better price.
Even a long list of the most nit-picky things will not dissuade the wise
buyer as long as there is some adjustment in the price as compensation
for the deficiencies. Surveyors usually have some pretty firm
guidelines as to what they consider minor and what is important. In
fact, they usually lay their survey our that way.
--
Keith
Boating isn't dangerous. Sinking is what's dangerous.
<<All kinda makes me wonder what the use is in signing a contract
anyway,since the seller can just walk away at any time for no
reason.>>
It's not quite that one sided. The buyer does have to pay for
the haulout & survey, and that's not cheap. Your contract (as
seller) should always specify that the survey comes before the
sea trial, to force the buyer to incur these costs. The other
way around, and the buyer can have a free boat ride with no $
out-of-pocket, and reject the boat before survey.
Been on both sides,
Mark Richter, Winnie the Pooh
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Hello All,
Mark raises a point that I, as a current shopper, strongly disagree with.
Before paying for a haul out and survey, I would insist on at least a spin
out of the harbor and a few minutes running from half to full throttle. I
don't need to pay for a survey for a boat that smokes excessively, won't
reach appropriate WOT, vibrates or is unbearably noisy, or exhibits any
number of flaws that disqualify the vessel as a candidate for purchase.
Only once comfortable that the vessel "feels good" would I pay for the
haul, survey and a competent captain to perform the actual sea trial. No
seller that prohibits or refuses this condition would get my business.
Just my opinion...
Frank & Claudette Weismantel
Elverta, CA
Boatless for a little while longer
-----Original Message-----
From: trawler-world-list-admin@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:trawler-world-list-admin@lists.samurai.com]On Behalf Of Mark Richter
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 5:00 PM
To: trawler-world-list@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: TWL: RE: Survey Tip
<snip>
Thanks to all the people who sent me recommendations on where to
buy a used laptop. I bought one tonight on the Dell Auction site
(www.dellauction.com) from Dell Financial Services, off lease.
It's a Dell Latitude CPXJ 650GT. Pentium III 650Mhz, 128Mb ram,
12Gb HD, 24xCD, 14.1" screen, running Windows2000. Paid $621,
under warranty until June, '03.
Mark Richter, Winnie the Pooh
Stuart, FL
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<<Mark raises a point that I, as a current shopper, strongly
disagree with. Before paying for a haul out and survey, I would
insist on at least a spin out of the harbor>>
I was speaking from the seller's viewpoint. Obviously, as the
potential buyer, you'd rather take the spin first, spend money
later. Perhaps you can, if you convince the seller that you
aren't just interested in a "spin out of the harbor". It's
usually easier to do this if a broker isn't involved.
At least in S. Florida, it's traditional in brokered deals to do
the survey first, sea trial after. Most brokers' preprinted
contracts have it this way. But you can try to negotiate
anything you want. That's what negotiation is all about.
Mark
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Hey Frank,
If I were selling you'd pay $100-$150 for a check spin. If you turn it down,
bye bye.
Dick Schroder
43' Gulfstar trawler
On the Ohio river in Indiana
oilpans@thepoint.net
"Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy" BF
----- Original Message -----
From: "frank weismantel" fxw@gwgi2010.com
To: "Trawler-World-List" trawler-world-list@lists.samurai.com; "Mark
Richter" Richter-Pooh@rocketmail.com
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 8:05 PM
Subject: RE: TWL: RE: Survey Tip
Hello All,
Mark raises a point that I, as a current shopper, strongly disagree with.
Before paying for a haul out and survey, I would insist on at least a spin
out of the harbor and a few minutes running from half to full throttle. I
don't need to pay for a survey for a boat that smokes
Dick:
This sounds like a paid cruise that would be frowned upon by both the Coast
Guard and your insurance company - unless you are licensed and insured to
provide this service.
Regards
Wesley
weldred@adelphia.net
Dick Schroder wrote:
Hey Frank,
If I were selling you'd pay $100-$150 for a check spin. If you turn it down,
bye bye.
Dick Schroder
Wes,
You got it right on both of those counts, but I don't have a brokers or
surveyor license. Or, are there such animals??
Dick Schroder
oilpans@thepoint.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wesley & Patricia Eldred" weldred@adelphia.net
Cc: "Trawler-World-List" trawler-world-list@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: TWL: RE: Survey Tip
Dick:
This sounds like a paid cruise that would be frowned upon by both the
Coast
Guard and your insurance company - unless you are licensed and insured to
provide this service.
Dick Schroder wrote:
If I were selling you'd pay $100-$150 for a check spin. If you turn it
down,
Not really. The USCG clarified that guests may help share in the costs
of a boat trip without going through all the captain / licensing junk.
Wesley & Patricia Eldred wrote:
Dick:
This sounds like a paid cruise that would be frowned upon by both the Coast
Guard and your insurance company - unless you are licensed and insured to
provide this service.
Regards
Wesley
weldred@adelphia.net
Dick Schroder wrote:
Hey Frank,
If I were selling you'd pay $100-$150 for a check spin. If you turn it down,
bye bye.
Dick Schroder
--
Keith
Good judgment comes from experience. Unfortunately, the experience
usually comes from bad judgment.