RE
Randy Evans
Mon, Aug 18, 2014 12:13 AM
That worked! Now it reads 000.00030mV. So far it looks good except for the
display.
Thanks,
Randy
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Bill Gold wpgold3637@att.net wrote:
You need a comma "," between the "0" and the "3458". So blu C "CAL
0,3458" "Enter".
See pg. # 64 of the CAL Manual for the syntax.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Evans" randyevans2688@gmail.com
To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" volt-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Bill,
You are very helpful and I really appreciate it.
I entered BLUE-C-03458 and I still get the ERR message (106, "OUT OF
-- CAL secured"). That would be consistent with what you are saying. I
guess its no reason to panic yet.
I'm not sure how to use the SECURE command. I guess it's time to open
up but I will probably have to get some PosiDrive screwdrivers.
Thanks,
Randy
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Bill Gold wpgold3637@att.net wrote:
Randy:
You are doing a ZERO calibration on the meter rather than a ACAL.
have to give it a password after the "0" and then it will do the ZERO
calibration. Usually the password is "3458" and comes from the factory
that
way. But someone could have changed it in the past. You can do this
the front panel menu using the SECURE command. But there is a jumper
inside
the 3458A which disables the request for a password so that you can do
CAL or reset the password to what you want. So everything is working
expected. The jumper is JM600 on the outguard processor board 66505 or
66515 on the left of the meter inside. Try "3458" first as most are
this password. Read the Calibration Manual pg. #8 for how to get
the meter. You will need two sizes of a PosiDrive type screwdrivers to
accomplish this. Again in the Cal Manual.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Evans" randyevans2688@gmail.com
To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" volt-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Bill,
I installed the U-short and executed the BLUE-C-0 front panel command
get an ERR on the display. I assume this is not good. Did I do this
correctly?
Thanks,
Randy
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Bill Gold wpgold3637@att.net
Randy:
Look at page #23 of the 3458A Calibration Manual. Make
Terminal Short" as shown and put it in as shown.
Before I did an ACAL I had around -000.00025 mVDC. After ACAL
read +000.00002 mVDC. I did the "CAL 0" myself so I would expect
meter should return to a low value, and it does. I do get a
+/- 30 nVDC using 100 PLC and just observing the variations. As I
I have never seen a spec on the ZERO stability over temperature.
If I turn on the MATH function and then do 40 measurements with
the statistics show:
Low reading -70 nVDC
Mean reading -28 nVDC
High reading +3.5 nVDC
Total Variation 73 nVDC
So that correlates with my visual observation of 60 nVDC.
hour
the room had gone up around 1 degree C. Then I observed -000.00023
After another ACAL the reading was again +000.00002 mVDC. This
meter has a negative tempco as the room temp goes up.
Obviously do an ACAL before any precision measurements
nanovolts.
Go to the Keysight website and go to "Technical Support" and
"Parts". Then enter in the "Part Number" "03458-66517" which is
replacement "03458-66507" assembly and you will see the replacement
number on the right hand side. Click on that and you will get the
information about the exchange program and so on. Looks like you
order this part online and pay for it with a credit card, but you
create or use an existing login account.
I needed a new display a few years ago. At that time you could
just the display for around $80. Being extremely good at removing
inserting and soldering I ordered the part. The problem was that
spacing from top to bottom of the pins had changed. It went from
1.3
inches to around 1.5 inches. So I had to bend the pins to fit my
board and then get something like 72 pins into the holes on the PC
It took hours. This change is probably why HP/Agilent/Keysight
you just get the display anymore but wants you to get the whole PC
assembly. It did work just fine once installed.
Hope this helps your decision to keep or not.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Evans" randyevans2688@gmail.com
To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Interesting note. After the room cooled down from about 79F to
another ACAL, the meter now reads +000.00035 mVDC, a more
although it does bounce around a couple of tenths of a uV.
Maybe that is OK? If so, then the only issue would seem to be
has some faint pixels, which a new display should fix.
Randy
On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Randy Evans
The unit seems to be working so far except for one issue.
ACAL, and making sure the Auto Zero is ON, I short the input
copper wire shunt across the inputs and the reading is
-000.0023 mVDC. That seems rather high. I would expect the
the input leads internally and force a zero reading during the
Anyone have any comments on this reading?
Thanks,
Randy
On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Richard Moore
Hi Randy -- sounds like your unit is in cal, based on your
of DCV and precision 10k resistor.
Using autocal all is recommended before doing precision
I do that if it's been more than a day or two since last use.
uses the internal Vref and an internal 10K resistor to do cal
else, so that tells you what the basic cal procedure is. I
back from Loveland, and that's what they did for me -- warmed
ran autocal, then measured everything against a Fluke 5700,
3325, and another 3458.
It has been 5 years since I replaced the display board (no
deal was available then AFAIK, so I don't know what's changed)
NVRAM board, which was dead, with one with the Snap-cap RAM
those replacements, then sent it home for cal, which was
all the RAM was new. Now after 5 years, the unit passed all
performance tests and was sent back to me without a cal
kind. This tells me that an old, well-aged Vref module is a
10VDC test had changed by a bit under 5ppm, or roughly
They have a cal deal -- use code 1.090 -- press them for it --
saved me 30% off the normal price. I think this deal lasts
mid-September, so my recent "cal" ended up at just under $400
shipping. I'm not sure the deal is available on new or
unit was in their data bank.
But this is a long way of saying I don't think you need to
cal -- just push Auto Cal and Enter and wait about 10 minutes
and follow the instructions there.
and follow the instructions there.
and follow the instructions there.
That worked! Now it reads 000.00030mV. So far it looks good except for the
display.
Thanks,
Randy
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637@att.net> wrote:
> You need a comma "," between the "0" and the "3458". So blu C "CAL
> 0,3458" "Enter".
>
> See pg. # 64 of the CAL Manual for the syntax.
>
> Bill
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts@febo.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
>
>
> > Bill,
> >
> > You are very helpful and I really appreciate it.
> >
> > I entered BLUE-C-03458 and I still get the ERR message (106, "OUT OF
> RANGE
> > -- CAL secured"). That would be consistent with what you are saying. I
> > guess its no reason to panic yet.
> >
> > I'm not sure how to use the SECURE command. I guess it's time to open
> it
> > up but I will probably have to get some PosiDrive screwdrivers.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Randy
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637@att.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Randy:
> > >
> > > You are doing a ZERO calibration on the meter rather than a ACAL.
> You
> > > have to give it a password after the "0" and then it will do the ZERO
> > > calibration. Usually the password is "3458" and comes from the factory
> > > that
> > > way. But someone could have changed it in the past. You can do this
> from
> > > the front panel menu using the SECURE command. But there is a jumper
> > > inside
> > > the 3458A which disables the request for a password so that you can do
> any
> > > CAL or reset the password to what you want. So everything is working
> as
> > > expected. The jumper is JM600 on the outguard processor board 66505 or
> > > 66515 on the left of the meter inside. Try "3458" first as most are
> set
> to
> > > this password. Read the Calibration Manual pg. #8 for how to get
> inside
> of
> > > the meter. You will need two sizes of a PosiDrive type screwdrivers to
> > > accomplish this. Again in the Cal Manual.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
> > > To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts@febo.com>
> > > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:22 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
> > >
> > >
> > > > Bill,
> > > >
> > > > I installed the U-short and executed the BLUE-C-0 front panel command
> and
> > > I
> > > > get an ERR on the display. I assume this is not good. Did I do this
> > > > correctly?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Randy
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637@att.net>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Randy:
> > > > >
> > > > > Look at page #23 of the 3458A Calibration Manual. Make
> yourself
> a
> > > "4
> > > > > Terminal Short" as shown and put it in as shown.
> > > > >
> > > > > Before I did an ACAL I had around -000.00025 mVDC. After ACAL
> I
> > > now
> > > > > read +000.00002 mVDC. I did the "CAL 0" myself so I would expect
> that
> > > the
> > > > > meter should return to a low value, and it does. I do get a
> variation
> > > of
> > > > > +/- 30 nVDC using 100 PLC and just observing the variations. As I
> > > remember
> > > > > I have never seen a spec on the ZERO stability over temperature.
> > > > >
> > > > > If I turn on the MATH function and then do 40 measurements with
> 100
> > > PLC
> > > > > the statistics show:
> > > > >
> > > > > Low reading -70 nVDC
> > > > > Mean reading -28 nVDC
> > > > > High reading +3.5 nVDC
> > > > > Total Variation 73 nVDC
> > > > >
> > > > > So that correlates with my visual observation of 60 nVDC.
> After
> an
> > > > > hour
> > > > > the room had gone up around 1 degree C. Then I observed -000.00023
> > > mVDC.
> > > > > After another ACAL the reading was again +000.00002 mVDC. This
> > > particular
> > > > > meter has a negative tempco as the room temp goes up.
> > > > >
> > > > > Obviously do an ACAL before any precision measurements
> requiring
> > > low
> > > > > nanovolts.
> > > > >
> > > > > Go to the Keysight website and go to "Technical Support" and
> choose
> > > > > "Parts". Then enter in the "Part Number" "03458-66517" which is
> the
> > > > > replacement "03458-66507" assembly and you will see the replacement
> > > part
> > > > > number on the right hand side. Click on that and you will get the
> > > > > information about the exchange program and so on. Looks like you
> can
> > > just
> > > > > order this part online and pay for it with a credit card, but you
> have
> > > to
> > > > > create or use an existing login account.
> > > > >
> > > > > I needed a new display a few years ago. At that time you could
> > > order
> > > > > just the display for around $80. Being extremely good at removing
> and
> > > then
> > > > > inserting and soldering I ordered the part. The problem was that
> the
> > > > > spacing from top to bottom of the pins had changed. It went from
> > > around
> > > > > 1.3
> > > > > inches to around 1.5 inches. So I had to bend the pins to fit my
> > > display
> > > > > board and then get something like 72 pins into the holes on the PC
> > > Board.
> > > > > It took hours. This change is probably why HP/Agilent/Keysight
> doesn't
> > > let
> > > > > you just get the display anymore but wants you to get the whole PC
> > > Board
> > > > > assembly. It did work just fine once installed.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hope this helps your decision to keep or not.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
> > > > > To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <
> volt-nuts@febo.com>
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:36 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Interesting note. After the room cooled down from about 79F to
> 73F,
> > > and
> > > > > > another ACAL, the meter now reads +000.00035 mVDC, a more
> reasonable
> > > > > value,
> > > > > > although it does bounce around a couple of tenths of a uV.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Maybe that is OK? If so, then the only issue would seem to be
> the
> > > > > display
> > > > > > has some faint pixels, which a new display should fix.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Randy
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Randy Evans
> > > <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The unit seems to be working so far except for one issue.
> After
> > > doing
> > > > > an
> > > > > > > ACAL, and making sure the Auto Zero is ON, I short the input
> leads
> > > > > with
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > copper wire shunt across the inputs and the reading is
> > > approximately
> > > > > > > -000.0023 mVDC. That seems rather high. I would expect the
> unit
> > > to
> > > > > short
> > > > > > > the input leads internally and force a zero reading during the
> > > ACAL.
> > > > > > > Anyone have any comments on this reading?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Randy
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Richard Moore
> > > <richiem5683@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> Hi Randy -- sounds like your unit is in cal, based on your
> > > > > measurements
> > > > > > >> of DCV and precision 10k resistor.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Using autocal all is recommended before doing precision
> > > measurements,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > >> I do that if it's been more than a day or two since last use.
> The
> > > > > autocal
> > > > > > >> uses the internal Vref and an internal 10K resistor to do cal
> on
> > > > > everything
> > > > > > >> else, so that tells you what the basic cal procedure is. I
> just
> > > got
> > > my
> > > > > 3458
> > > > > > >> back from Loveland, and that's what they did for me -- warmed
> it
> > > up,
> > > > > then
> > > > > > >> ran autocal, then measured everything against a Fluke 5700,
> aided
> > > by
> > > > > an
> > > > > HP
> > > > > > >> 3325, and another 3458.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> It has been 5 years since I replaced the display board (no
> > > "exchange"
> > > > > > >> deal was available then AFAIK, so I don't know what's changed)
> and
> > > > > also
> > > > > the
> > > > > > >> NVRAM board, which was dead, with one with the Snap-cap RAM
> chips.
> > > I
> > > > > did
> > > > > > >> those replacements, then sent it home for cal, which was
> complete,
> > > > > since
> > > > > > >> all the RAM was new. Now after 5 years, the unit passed all
> > > incoming
> > > > > > >> performance tests and was sent back to me without a cal
> process
> of
> > > any
> > > > > > >> kind. This tells me that an old, well-aged Vref module is a
> good
> > > > > thing.
> > > > > The
> > > > > > >> 10VDC test had changed by a bit under 5ppm, or roughly
> 1ppm/year.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> They have a cal deal -- use code 1.090 -- press them for it --
> and
> > > > > that
> > > > > > >> saved me 30% off the normal price. I think this deal lasts
> until
> > > > > > >> mid-September, so my recent "cal" ended up at just under $400
> > > > > including
> > > > > > >> shipping. I'm not sure the deal is available on new or
> first-time
> > > > > cals;
> > > > > my
> > > > > > >> unit was in their data bank.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> But this is a long way of saying I don't think you need to
> send
> it
> > > for
> > > > > > >> cal -- just push Auto Cal and Enter and wait about 10 minutes
> and
> > > you
> > > > > > >> should be good to go.
> > > > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > > > >> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
> > > > > > >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> > > > > > >> mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
> > > > > > >> and follow the instructions there.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
> > > > > > To unsubscribe, go to
> > > > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
> > > > > > and follow the instructions there.
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
> > > > > To unsubscribe, go to
> > > > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
> > > > > and follow the instructions there.
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
> > > > To unsubscribe, go to
> > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
> > > > and follow the instructions there.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
> > > To unsubscribe, go to
> > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
> > > and follow the instructions there.
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
>
> _______________________________________________
> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
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> and follow the instructions there.
>
RE
Randy Evans
Mon, Aug 18, 2014 3:48 AM
Can someone explain to me how to read the internal temperature using the
front panel TEMP? command. I have played around but I am doing something
wrong.
thanks,
Randy
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Randy Evans randyevans2688@gmail.com
wrote:
That worked! Now it reads 000.00030mV. So far it looks good except for
the display.
Thanks,
Randy
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Bill Gold wpgold3637@att.net wrote:
You need a comma "," between the "0" and the "3458". So blu C "CAL
0,3458" "Enter".
See pg. # 64 of the CAL Manual for the syntax.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Evans" randyevans2688@gmail.com
To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" volt-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Bill,
You are very helpful and I really appreciate it.
I entered BLUE-C-03458 and I still get the ERR message (106, "OUT OF
-- CAL secured"). That would be consistent with what you are saying. I
guess its no reason to panic yet.
I'm not sure how to use the SECURE command. I guess it's time to open
up but I will probably have to get some PosiDrive screwdrivers.
Thanks,
Randy
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Bill Gold wpgold3637@att.net wrote:
Randy:
You are doing a ZERO calibration on the meter rather than a ACAL.
have to give it a password after the "0" and then it will do the ZERO
calibration. Usually the password is "3458" and comes from the
that
way. But someone could have changed it in the past. You can do this
the front panel menu using the SECURE command. But there is a jumper
inside
the 3458A which disables the request for a password so that you can do
CAL or reset the password to what you want. So everything is working
expected. The jumper is JM600 on the outguard processor board 66505
66515 on the left of the meter inside. Try "3458" first as most are
this password. Read the Calibration Manual pg. #8 for how to get
the meter. You will need two sizes of a PosiDrive type screwdrivers
accomplish this. Again in the Cal Manual.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Evans" randyevans2688@gmail.com
To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" volt-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Bill,
I installed the U-short and executed the BLUE-C-0 front panel
get an ERR on the display. I assume this is not good. Did I do
Randy:
Look at page #23 of the 3458A Calibration Manual. Make
Terminal Short" as shown and put it in as shown.
Before I did an ACAL I had around -000.00025 mVDC. After
read +000.00002 mVDC. I did the "CAL 0" myself so I would expect
meter should return to a low value, and it does. I do get a
+/- 30 nVDC using 100 PLC and just observing the variations. As I
I have never seen a spec on the ZERO stability over temperature.
If I turn on the MATH function and then do 40 measurements
the statistics show:
Low reading -70 nVDC
Mean reading -28 nVDC
High reading +3.5 nVDC
Total Variation 73 nVDC
So that correlates with my visual observation of 60 nVDC.
hour
the room had gone up around 1 degree C. Then I observed
After another ACAL the reading was again +000.00002 mVDC. This
meter has a negative tempco as the room temp goes up.
Obviously do an ACAL before any precision measurements
nanovolts.
Go to the Keysight website and go to "Technical Support" and
"Parts". Then enter in the "Part Number" "03458-66517" which is
replacement "03458-66507" assembly and you will see the
number on the right hand side. Click on that and you will get the
information about the exchange program and so on. Looks like you
order this part online and pay for it with a credit card, but you
create or use an existing login account.
I needed a new display a few years ago. At that time you
just the display for around $80. Being extremely good at removing
inserting and soldering I ordered the part. The problem was that
spacing from top to bottom of the pins had changed. It went from
1.3
inches to around 1.5 inches. So I had to bend the pins to fit my
board and then get something like 72 pins into the holes on the PC
It took hours. This change is probably why HP/Agilent/Keysight
you just get the display anymore but wants you to get the whole PC
assembly. It did work just fine once installed.
Hope this helps your decision to keep or not.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Evans" randyevans2688@gmail.com
To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Interesting note. After the room cooled down from about 79F to
another ACAL, the meter now reads +000.00035 mVDC, a more
although it does bounce around a couple of tenths of a uV.
Maybe that is OK? If so, then the only issue would seem to be
has some faint pixels, which a new display should fix.
Randy
On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Randy Evans
The unit seems to be working so far except for one issue.
ACAL, and making sure the Auto Zero is ON, I short the input
copper wire shunt across the inputs and the reading is
-000.0023 mVDC. That seems rather high. I would expect the
the input leads internally and force a zero reading during the
Anyone have any comments on this reading?
Thanks,
Randy
On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Richard Moore
Hi Randy -- sounds like your unit is in cal, based on your
of DCV and precision 10k resistor.
Using autocal all is recommended before doing precision
I do that if it's been more than a day or two since last use.
uses the internal Vref and an internal 10K resistor to do cal
else, so that tells you what the basic cal procedure is. I
back from Loveland, and that's what they did for me -- warmed
ran autocal, then measured everything against a Fluke 5700,
3325, and another 3458.
It has been 5 years since I replaced the display board (no
deal was available then AFAIK, so I don't know what's
NVRAM board, which was dead, with one with the Snap-cap RAM
those replacements, then sent it home for cal, which was
all the RAM was new. Now after 5 years, the unit passed all
performance tests and was sent back to me without a cal
kind. This tells me that an old, well-aged Vref module is a
10VDC test had changed by a bit under 5ppm, or roughly
They have a cal deal -- use code 1.090 -- press them for it
saved me 30% off the normal price. I think this deal lasts
mid-September, so my recent "cal" ended up at just under $400
shipping. I'm not sure the deal is available on new or
unit was in their data bank.
But this is a long way of saying I don't think you need to
cal -- just push Auto Cal and Enter and wait about 10 minutes
and follow the instructions there.
and follow the instructions there.
and follow the instructions there.
Can someone explain to me how to read the internal temperature using the
front panel TEMP? command. I have played around but I am doing something
wrong.
thanks,
Randy
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Randy Evans <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
wrote:
> That worked! Now it reads 000.00030mV. So far it looks good except for
> the display.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Randy
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637@att.net> wrote:
>
>> You need a comma "," between the "0" and the "3458". So blu C "CAL
>> 0,3458" "Enter".
>>
>> See pg. # 64 of the CAL Manual for the syntax.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
>> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts@febo.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
>>
>>
>> > Bill,
>> >
>> > You are very helpful and I really appreciate it.
>> >
>> > I entered BLUE-C-03458 and I still get the ERR message (106, "OUT OF
>> RANGE
>> > -- CAL secured"). That would be consistent with what you are saying. I
>> > guess its no reason to panic yet.
>> >
>> > I'm not sure how to use the SECURE command. I guess it's time to open
>> it
>> > up but I will probably have to get some PosiDrive screwdrivers.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Randy
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637@att.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Randy:
>> > >
>> > > You are doing a ZERO calibration on the meter rather than a ACAL.
>> You
>> > > have to give it a password after the "0" and then it will do the ZERO
>> > > calibration. Usually the password is "3458" and comes from the
>> factory
>> > > that
>> > > way. But someone could have changed it in the past. You can do this
>> from
>> > > the front panel menu using the SECURE command. But there is a jumper
>> > > inside
>> > > the 3458A which disables the request for a password so that you can do
>> any
>> > > CAL or reset the password to what you want. So everything is working
>> as
>> > > expected. The jumper is JM600 on the outguard processor board 66505
>> or
>> > > 66515 on the left of the meter inside. Try "3458" first as most are
>> set
>> to
>> > > this password. Read the Calibration Manual pg. #8 for how to get
>> inside
>> of
>> > > the meter. You will need two sizes of a PosiDrive type screwdrivers
>> to
>> > > accomplish this. Again in the Cal Manual.
>> > >
>> > > Bill
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
>> > > To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts@febo.com>
>> > > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:22 AM
>> > > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > Bill,
>> > > >
>> > > > I installed the U-short and executed the BLUE-C-0 front panel
>> command
>> and
>> > > I
>> > > > get an ERR on the display. I assume this is not good. Did I do
>> this
>> > > > correctly?
>> > > >
>> > > > Thanks,
>> > > >
>> > > > Randy
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637@att.net>
>> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Randy:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Look at page #23 of the 3458A Calibration Manual. Make
>> yourself
>> a
>> > > "4
>> > > > > Terminal Short" as shown and put it in as shown.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Before I did an ACAL I had around -000.00025 mVDC. After
>> ACAL I
>> > > now
>> > > > > read +000.00002 mVDC. I did the "CAL 0" myself so I would expect
>> that
>> > > the
>> > > > > meter should return to a low value, and it does. I do get a
>> variation
>> > > of
>> > > > > +/- 30 nVDC using 100 PLC and just observing the variations. As I
>> > > remember
>> > > > > I have never seen a spec on the ZERO stability over temperature.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > If I turn on the MATH function and then do 40 measurements
>> with
>> 100
>> > > PLC
>> > > > > the statistics show:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Low reading -70 nVDC
>> > > > > Mean reading -28 nVDC
>> > > > > High reading +3.5 nVDC
>> > > > > Total Variation 73 nVDC
>> > > > >
>> > > > > So that correlates with my visual observation of 60 nVDC.
>> After
>> an
>> > > > > hour
>> > > > > the room had gone up around 1 degree C. Then I observed
>> -000.00023
>> > > mVDC.
>> > > > > After another ACAL the reading was again +000.00002 mVDC. This
>> > > particular
>> > > > > meter has a negative tempco as the room temp goes up.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Obviously do an ACAL before any precision measurements
>> requiring
>> > > low
>> > > > > nanovolts.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Go to the Keysight website and go to "Technical Support" and
>> choose
>> > > > > "Parts". Then enter in the "Part Number" "03458-66517" which is
>> the
>> > > > > replacement "03458-66507" assembly and you will see the
>> replacement
>> > > part
>> > > > > number on the right hand side. Click on that and you will get the
>> > > > > information about the exchange program and so on. Looks like you
>> can
>> > > just
>> > > > > order this part online and pay for it with a credit card, but you
>> have
>> > > to
>> > > > > create or use an existing login account.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I needed a new display a few years ago. At that time you
>> could
>> > > order
>> > > > > just the display for around $80. Being extremely good at removing
>> and
>> > > then
>> > > > > inserting and soldering I ordered the part. The problem was that
>> the
>> > > > > spacing from top to bottom of the pins had changed. It went from
>> > > around
>> > > > > 1.3
>> > > > > inches to around 1.5 inches. So I had to bend the pins to fit my
>> > > display
>> > > > > board and then get something like 72 pins into the holes on the PC
>> > > Board.
>> > > > > It took hours. This change is probably why HP/Agilent/Keysight
>> doesn't
>> > > let
>> > > > > you just get the display anymore but wants you to get the whole PC
>> > > Board
>> > > > > assembly. It did work just fine once installed.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Hope this helps your decision to keep or not.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Bill
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > > From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
>> > > > > To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <
>> volt-nuts@febo.com>
>> > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:36 PM
>> > > > > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > Interesting note. After the room cooled down from about 79F to
>> 73F,
>> > > and
>> > > > > > another ACAL, the meter now reads +000.00035 mVDC, a more
>> reasonable
>> > > > > value,
>> > > > > > although it does bounce around a couple of tenths of a uV.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Maybe that is OK? If so, then the only issue would seem to be
>> the
>> > > > > display
>> > > > > > has some faint pixels, which a new display should fix.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Randy
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Randy Evans
>> > > <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
>> > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > The unit seems to be working so far except for one issue.
>> After
>> > > doing
>> > > > > an
>> > > > > > > ACAL, and making sure the Auto Zero is ON, I short the input
>> leads
>> > > > > with
>> > > > > a
>> > > > > > > copper wire shunt across the inputs and the reading is
>> > > approximately
>> > > > > > > -000.0023 mVDC. That seems rather high. I would expect the
>> unit
>> > > to
>> > > > > short
>> > > > > > > the input leads internally and force a zero reading during the
>> > > ACAL.
>> > > > > > > Anyone have any comments on this reading?
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Thanks,
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Randy
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Richard Moore
>> > > <richiem5683@gmail.com>
>> > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >> Hi Randy -- sounds like your unit is in cal, based on your
>> > > > > measurements
>> > > > > > >> of DCV and precision 10k resistor.
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> Using autocal all is recommended before doing precision
>> > > measurements,
>> > > > > and
>> > > > > > >> I do that if it's been more than a day or two since last use.
>> The
>> > > > > autocal
>> > > > > > >> uses the internal Vref and an internal 10K resistor to do cal
>> on
>> > > > > everything
>> > > > > > >> else, so that tells you what the basic cal procedure is. I
>> just
>> > > got
>> > > my
>> > > > > 3458
>> > > > > > >> back from Loveland, and that's what they did for me -- warmed
>> it
>> > > up,
>> > > > > then
>> > > > > > >> ran autocal, then measured everything against a Fluke 5700,
>> aided
>> > > by
>> > > > > an
>> > > > > HP
>> > > > > > >> 3325, and another 3458.
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> It has been 5 years since I replaced the display board (no
>> > > "exchange"
>> > > > > > >> deal was available then AFAIK, so I don't know what's
>> changed)
>> and
>> > > > > also
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > >> NVRAM board, which was dead, with one with the Snap-cap RAM
>> chips.
>> > > I
>> > > > > did
>> > > > > > >> those replacements, then sent it home for cal, which was
>> complete,
>> > > > > since
>> > > > > > >> all the RAM was new. Now after 5 years, the unit passed all
>> > > incoming
>> > > > > > >> performance tests and was sent back to me without a cal
>> process
>> of
>> > > any
>> > > > > > >> kind. This tells me that an old, well-aged Vref module is a
>> good
>> > > > > thing.
>> > > > > The
>> > > > > > >> 10VDC test had changed by a bit under 5ppm, or roughly
>> 1ppm/year.
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> They have a cal deal -- use code 1.090 -- press them for it
>> --
>> and
>> > > > > that
>> > > > > > >> saved me 30% off the normal price. I think this deal lasts
>> until
>> > > > > > >> mid-September, so my recent "cal" ended up at just under $400
>> > > > > including
>> > > > > > >> shipping. I'm not sure the deal is available on new or
>> first-time
>> > > > > cals;
>> > > > > my
>> > > > > > >> unit was in their data bank.
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> But this is a long way of saying I don't think you need to
>> send
>> it
>> > > for
>> > > > > > >> cal -- just push Auto Cal and Enter and wait about 10 minutes
>> and
>> > > you
>> > > > > > >> should be good to go.
>> > > > > > >> _______________________________________________
>> > > > > > >> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>> > > > > > >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
>> > > > > > >> mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>> > > > > > >> and follow the instructions there.
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>> > > > > > To unsubscribe, go to
>> > > > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>> > > > > > and follow the instructions there.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>> > > > > To unsubscribe, go to
>> > > > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>> > > > > and follow the instructions there.
>> > > > >
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>> > > > To unsubscribe, go to
>> > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>> > > > and follow the instructions there.
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>> > > To unsubscribe, go to
>> > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>> > > and follow the instructions there.
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>> > To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>> > and follow the instructions there.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>
>
TM
Todd Micallef
Mon, Aug 18, 2014 4:17 AM
Randy,
Do you mean that you can select it, but it won't give you a temperature? Or
do you mean that you can't find it in the menu? If you go to the MENU
option, select FULL or something like that. It should enable all the extra
menus.
If you can see it, I believe all you have to do is find it under the menu
and hit Enter. I have tested mine and have never had an issue with getting
a temperature measurement.
Todd
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:48 PM, Randy Evans randyevans2688@gmail.com
wrote:
Can someone explain to me how to read the internal temperature using the
front panel TEMP? command. I have played around but I am doing something
wrong.
thanks,
Randy
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Randy Evans randyevans2688@gmail.com
wrote:
That worked! Now it reads 000.00030mV. So far it looks good except for
the display.
Thanks,
Randy
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Bill Gold wpgold3637@att.net wrote:
You need a comma "," between the "0" and the "3458". So blu C "CAL
0,3458" "Enter".
See pg. # 64 of the CAL Manual for the syntax.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Evans" randyevans2688@gmail.com
To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" volt-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Bill,
You are very helpful and I really appreciate it.
I entered BLUE-C-03458 and I still get the ERR message (106, "OUT OF
-- CAL secured"). That would be consistent with what you are
guess its no reason to panic yet.
I'm not sure how to use the SECURE command. I guess it's time to
up but I will probably have to get some PosiDrive screwdrivers.
Thanks,
Randy
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Bill Gold wpgold3637@att.net
Randy:
You are doing a ZERO calibration on the meter rather than a
have to give it a password after the "0" and then it will do the
calibration. Usually the password is "3458" and comes from the
that
way. But someone could have changed it in the past. You can do
the front panel menu using the SECURE command. But there is a
inside
the 3458A which disables the request for a password so that you can
CAL or reset the password to what you want. So everything is
expected. The jumper is JM600 on the outguard processor board 66505
66515 on the left of the meter inside. Try "3458" first as most are
this password. Read the Calibration Manual pg. #8 for how to get
the meter. You will need two sizes of a PosiDrive type screwdrivers
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Bill,
I installed the U-short and executed the BLUE-C-0 front panel
get an ERR on the display. I assume this is not good. Did I do
Randy:
Look at page #23 of the 3458A Calibration Manual. Make
Terminal Short" as shown and put it in as shown.
Before I did an ACAL I had around -000.00025 mVDC. After
read +000.00002 mVDC. I did the "CAL 0" myself so I would
meter should return to a low value, and it does. I do get a
+/- 30 nVDC using 100 PLC and just observing the variations.
I have never seen a spec on the ZERO stability over temperature.
If I turn on the MATH function and then do 40 measurements
the statistics show:
Low reading -70 nVDC
Mean reading -28 nVDC
High reading +3.5 nVDC
Total Variation 73 nVDC
So that correlates with my visual observation of 60 nVDC.
hour
the room had gone up around 1 degree C. Then I observed
After another ACAL the reading was again +000.00002 mVDC. This
meter has a negative tempco as the room temp goes up.
Obviously do an ACAL before any precision measurements
nanovolts.
Go to the Keysight website and go to "Technical Support" and
"Parts". Then enter in the "Part Number" "03458-66517" which
replacement "03458-66507" assembly and you will see the
number on the right hand side. Click on that and you will get
information about the exchange program and so on. Looks like
order this part online and pay for it with a credit card, but
create or use an existing login account.
I needed a new display a few years ago. At that time you
just the display for around $80. Being extremely good at
inserting and soldering I ordered the part. The problem was
spacing from top to bottom of the pins had changed. It went
1.3
inches to around 1.5 inches. So I had to bend the pins to fit
board and then get something like 72 pins into the holes on the
It took hours. This change is probably why HP/Agilent/Keysight
you just get the display anymore but wants you to get the whole
assembly. It did work just fine once installed.
Hope this helps your decision to keep or not.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Evans" randyevans2688@gmail.com
To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Interesting note. After the room cooled down from about 79F
another ACAL, the meter now reads +000.00035 mVDC, a more
although it does bounce around a couple of tenths of a uV.
Maybe that is OK? If so, then the only issue would seem to be
has some faint pixels, which a new display should fix.
Randy
On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Randy Evans
The unit seems to be working so far except for one issue.
ACAL, and making sure the Auto Zero is ON, I short the
copper wire shunt across the inputs and the reading is
-000.0023 mVDC. That seems rather high. I would expect
the input leads internally and force a zero reading during
Anyone have any comments on this reading?
Thanks,
Randy
On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Richard Moore
Hi Randy -- sounds like your unit is in cal, based on your
of DCV and precision 10k resistor.
Using autocal all is recommended before doing precision
I do that if it's been more than a day or two since last
uses the internal Vref and an internal 10K resistor to do
else, so that tells you what the basic cal procedure is. I
back from Loveland, and that's what they did for me --
ran autocal, then measured everything against a Fluke 5700,
3325, and another 3458.
It has been 5 years since I replaced the display board (no
deal was available then AFAIK, so I don't know what's
NVRAM board, which was dead, with one with the Snap-cap RAM
those replacements, then sent it home for cal, which was
all the RAM was new. Now after 5 years, the unit passed all
performance tests and was sent back to me without a cal
kind. This tells me that an old, well-aged Vref module is a
10VDC test had changed by a bit under 5ppm, or roughly
They have a cal deal -- use code 1.090 -- press them for it
saved me 30% off the normal price. I think this deal lasts
mid-September, so my recent "cal" ended up at just under
shipping. I'm not sure the deal is available on new or
unit was in their data bank.
But this is a long way of saying I don't think you need to
cal -- just push Auto Cal and Enter and wait about 10
and follow the instructions there.
and follow the instructions there.
and follow the instructions there.
Randy,
Do you mean that you can select it, but it won't give you a temperature? Or
do you mean that you can't find it in the menu? If you go to the MENU
option, select FULL or something like that. It should enable all the extra
menus.
If you can see it, I believe all you have to do is find it under the menu
and hit Enter. I have tested mine and have never had an issue with getting
a temperature measurement.
Todd
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:48 PM, Randy Evans <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Can someone explain to me how to read the internal temperature using the
> front panel TEMP? command. I have played around but I am doing something
> wrong.
>
> thanks,
>
> Randy
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Randy Evans <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > That worked! Now it reads 000.00030mV. So far it looks good except for
> > the display.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Randy
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637@att.net> wrote:
> >
> >> You need a comma "," between the "0" and the "3458". So blu C "CAL
> >> 0,3458" "Enter".
> >>
> >> See pg. # 64 of the CAL Manual for the syntax.
> >>
> >> Bill
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
> >> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts@febo.com>
> >> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:25 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
> >>
> >>
> >> > Bill,
> >> >
> >> > You are very helpful and I really appreciate it.
> >> >
> >> > I entered BLUE-C-03458 and I still get the ERR message (106, "OUT OF
> >> RANGE
> >> > -- CAL secured"). That would be consistent with what you are
> saying. I
> >> > guess its no reason to panic yet.
> >> >
> >> > I'm not sure how to use the SECURE command. I guess it's time to
> open
> >> it
> >> > up but I will probably have to get some PosiDrive screwdrivers.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> >
> >> > Randy
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637@att.net>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Randy:
> >> > >
> >> > > You are doing a ZERO calibration on the meter rather than a
> ACAL.
> >> You
> >> > > have to give it a password after the "0" and then it will do the
> ZERO
> >> > > calibration. Usually the password is "3458" and comes from the
> >> factory
> >> > > that
> >> > > way. But someone could have changed it in the past. You can do
> this
> >> from
> >> > > the front panel menu using the SECURE command. But there is a
> jumper
> >> > > inside
> >> > > the 3458A which disables the request for a password so that you can
> do
> >> any
> >> > > CAL or reset the password to what you want. So everything is
> working
> >> as
> >> > > expected. The jumper is JM600 on the outguard processor board 66505
> >> or
> >> > > 66515 on the left of the meter inside. Try "3458" first as most are
> >> set
> >> to
> >> > > this password. Read the Calibration Manual pg. #8 for how to get
> >> inside
> >> of
> >> > > the meter. You will need two sizes of a PosiDrive type screwdrivers
> >> to
> >> > > accomplish this. Again in the Cal Manual.
> >> > >
> >> > > Bill
> >> > >
> >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
> >> > > To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts@febo.com
> >
> >> > > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:22 AM
> >> > > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > > Bill,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I installed the U-short and executed the BLUE-C-0 front panel
> >> command
> >> and
> >> > > I
> >> > > > get an ERR on the display. I assume this is not good. Did I do
> >> this
> >> > > > correctly?
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Thanks,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Randy
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637@att.net>
> >> wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > Randy:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Look at page #23 of the 3458A Calibration Manual. Make
> >> yourself
> >> a
> >> > > "4
> >> > > > > Terminal Short" as shown and put it in as shown.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Before I did an ACAL I had around -000.00025 mVDC. After
> >> ACAL I
> >> > > now
> >> > > > > read +000.00002 mVDC. I did the "CAL 0" myself so I would
> expect
> >> that
> >> > > the
> >> > > > > meter should return to a low value, and it does. I do get a
> >> variation
> >> > > of
> >> > > > > +/- 30 nVDC using 100 PLC and just observing the variations.
> As I
> >> > > remember
> >> > > > > I have never seen a spec on the ZERO stability over temperature.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > If I turn on the MATH function and then do 40 measurements
> >> with
> >> 100
> >> > > PLC
> >> > > > > the statistics show:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Low reading -70 nVDC
> >> > > > > Mean reading -28 nVDC
> >> > > > > High reading +3.5 nVDC
> >> > > > > Total Variation 73 nVDC
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > So that correlates with my visual observation of 60 nVDC.
> >> After
> >> an
> >> > > > > hour
> >> > > > > the room had gone up around 1 degree C. Then I observed
> >> -000.00023
> >> > > mVDC.
> >> > > > > After another ACAL the reading was again +000.00002 mVDC. This
> >> > > particular
> >> > > > > meter has a negative tempco as the room temp goes up.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Obviously do an ACAL before any precision measurements
> >> requiring
> >> > > low
> >> > > > > nanovolts.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Go to the Keysight website and go to "Technical Support" and
> >> choose
> >> > > > > "Parts". Then enter in the "Part Number" "03458-66517" which
> is
> >> the
> >> > > > > replacement "03458-66507" assembly and you will see the
> >> replacement
> >> > > part
> >> > > > > number on the right hand side. Click on that and you will get
> the
> >> > > > > information about the exchange program and so on. Looks like
> you
> >> can
> >> > > just
> >> > > > > order this part online and pay for it with a credit card, but
> you
> >> have
> >> > > to
> >> > > > > create or use an existing login account.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > I needed a new display a few years ago. At that time you
> >> could
> >> > > order
> >> > > > > just the display for around $80. Being extremely good at
> removing
> >> and
> >> > > then
> >> > > > > inserting and soldering I ordered the part. The problem was
> that
> >> the
> >> > > > > spacing from top to bottom of the pins had changed. It went
> from
> >> > > around
> >> > > > > 1.3
> >> > > > > inches to around 1.5 inches. So I had to bend the pins to fit
> my
> >> > > display
> >> > > > > board and then get something like 72 pins into the holes on the
> PC
> >> > > Board.
> >> > > > > It took hours. This change is probably why HP/Agilent/Keysight
> >> doesn't
> >> > > let
> >> > > > > you just get the display anymore but wants you to get the whole
> PC
> >> > > Board
> >> > > > > assembly. It did work just fine once installed.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Hope this helps your decision to keep or not.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Bill
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > > > From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
> >> > > > > To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <
> >> volt-nuts@febo.com>
> >> > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:36 PM
> >> > > > > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > > Interesting note. After the room cooled down from about 79F
> to
> >> 73F,
> >> > > and
> >> > > > > > another ACAL, the meter now reads +000.00035 mVDC, a more
> >> reasonable
> >> > > > > value,
> >> > > > > > although it does bounce around a couple of tenths of a uV.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Maybe that is OK? If so, then the only issue would seem to be
> >> the
> >> > > > > display
> >> > > > > > has some faint pixels, which a new display should fix.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Randy
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Randy Evans
> >> > > <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
> >> > > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > The unit seems to be working so far except for one issue.
> >> After
> >> > > doing
> >> > > > > an
> >> > > > > > > ACAL, and making sure the Auto Zero is ON, I short the
> input
> >> leads
> >> > > > > with
> >> > > > > a
> >> > > > > > > copper wire shunt across the inputs and the reading is
> >> > > approximately
> >> > > > > > > -000.0023 mVDC. That seems rather high. I would expect
> the
> >> unit
> >> > > to
> >> > > > > short
> >> > > > > > > the input leads internally and force a zero reading during
> the
> >> > > ACAL.
> >> > > > > > > Anyone have any comments on this reading?
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Thanks,
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Randy
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Richard Moore
> >> > > <richiem5683@gmail.com>
> >> > > > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >> Hi Randy -- sounds like your unit is in cal, based on your
> >> > > > > measurements
> >> > > > > > >> of DCV and precision 10k resistor.
> >> > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > >> Using autocal all is recommended before doing precision
> >> > > measurements,
> >> > > > > and
> >> > > > > > >> I do that if it's been more than a day or two since last
> use.
> >> The
> >> > > > > autocal
> >> > > > > > >> uses the internal Vref and an internal 10K resistor to do
> cal
> >> on
> >> > > > > everything
> >> > > > > > >> else, so that tells you what the basic cal procedure is. I
> >> just
> >> > > got
> >> > > my
> >> > > > > 3458
> >> > > > > > >> back from Loveland, and that's what they did for me --
> warmed
> >> it
> >> > > up,
> >> > > > > then
> >> > > > > > >> ran autocal, then measured everything against a Fluke 5700,
> >> aided
> >> > > by
> >> > > > > an
> >> > > > > HP
> >> > > > > > >> 3325, and another 3458.
> >> > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > >> It has been 5 years since I replaced the display board (no
> >> > > "exchange"
> >> > > > > > >> deal was available then AFAIK, so I don't know what's
> >> changed)
> >> and
> >> > > > > also
> >> > > > > the
> >> > > > > > >> NVRAM board, which was dead, with one with the Snap-cap RAM
> >> chips.
> >> > > I
> >> > > > > did
> >> > > > > > >> those replacements, then sent it home for cal, which was
> >> complete,
> >> > > > > since
> >> > > > > > >> all the RAM was new. Now after 5 years, the unit passed all
> >> > > incoming
> >> > > > > > >> performance tests and was sent back to me without a cal
> >> process
> >> of
> >> > > any
> >> > > > > > >> kind. This tells me that an old, well-aged Vref module is a
> >> good
> >> > > > > thing.
> >> > > > > The
> >> > > > > > >> 10VDC test had changed by a bit under 5ppm, or roughly
> >> 1ppm/year.
> >> > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > >> They have a cal deal -- use code 1.090 -- press them for it
> >> --
> >> and
> >> > > > > that
> >> > > > > > >> saved me 30% off the normal price. I think this deal lasts
> >> until
> >> > > > > > >> mid-September, so my recent "cal" ended up at just under
> $400
> >> > > > > including
> >> > > > > > >> shipping. I'm not sure the deal is available on new or
> >> first-time
> >> > > > > cals;
> >> > > > > my
> >> > > > > > >> unit was in their data bank.
> >> > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > >> But this is a long way of saying I don't think you need to
> >> send
> >> it
> >> > > for
> >> > > > > > >> cal -- just push Auto Cal and Enter and wait about 10
> minutes
> >> and
> >> > > you
> >> > > > > > >> should be good to go.
> >> > > > > > >> _______________________________________________
> >> > > > > > >> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
> >> > > > > > >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> >> > > > > > >> mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
> >> > > > > > >> and follow the instructions there.
> >> > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > > > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
> >> > > > > > To unsubscribe, go to
> >> > > > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
> >> > > > > > and follow the instructions there.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
> >> > > > > To unsubscribe, go to
> >> > > > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
> >> > > > > and follow the instructions there.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
> >> > > > To unsubscribe, go to
> >> > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
> >> > > > and follow the instructions there.
> >> > >
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
> >> > > To unsubscribe, go to
> >> > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
> >> > > and follow the instructions there.
> >> > >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
> >> > To unsubscribe, go to
> >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
> >> > and follow the instructions there.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
> >> To unsubscribe, go to
> >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >>
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
RE
Randy Evans
Mon, Aug 18, 2014 5:11 AM
Todd,
I am very new to the 3458 so much of it is slowly unfolding mystery to me
(I'm a three day wonder). I went to the menu and selected FULL and then
TEMP? appeared. I am not sure where to find this but it's probably in the
manual somewhere. I will slowly uncover these secrets but it's frustrating
at times. Easy once you know it.
Thanks for the help, Todd.
Randy
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 9:17 PM, Todd Micallef tmicallef@gmail.com wrote:
Randy,
Do you mean that you can select it, but it won't give you a temperature? Or
do you mean that you can't find it in the menu? If you go to the MENU
option, select FULL or something like that. It should enable all the extra
menus.
If you can see it, I believe all you have to do is find it under the menu
and hit Enter. I have tested mine and have never had an issue with getting
a temperature measurement.
Todd
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:48 PM, Randy Evans randyevans2688@gmail.com
wrote:
Can someone explain to me how to read the internal temperature using the
front panel TEMP? command. I have played around but I am doing
That worked! Now it reads 000.00030mV. So far it looks good except for
the display.
Thanks,
Randy
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Bill Gold wpgold3637@att.net
You need a comma "," between the "0" and the "3458". So blu C "CAL
0,3458" "Enter".
See pg. # 64 of the CAL Manual for the syntax.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Evans" randyevans2688@gmail.com
To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" volt-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Bill,
You are very helpful and I really appreciate it.
I entered BLUE-C-03458 and I still get the ERR message (106, "OUT OF
-- CAL secured"). That would be consistent with what you are
guess its no reason to panic yet.
I'm not sure how to use the SECURE command. I guess it's time to
up but I will probably have to get some PosiDrive screwdrivers.
Thanks,
Randy
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Bill Gold wpgold3637@att.net
Randy:
You are doing a ZERO calibration on the meter rather than a
have to give it a password after the "0" and then it will do the
calibration. Usually the password is "3458" and comes from the
that
way. But someone could have changed it in the past. You can do
the front panel menu using the SECURE command. But there is a
inside
the 3458A which disables the request for a password so that you
CAL or reset the password to what you want. So everything is
expected. The jumper is JM600 on the outguard processor board
66515 on the left of the meter inside. Try "3458" first as most
this password. Read the Calibration Manual pg. #8 for how to get
the meter. You will need two sizes of a PosiDrive type
accomplish this. Again in the Cal Manual.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Evans" randyevans2688@gmail.com
To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Bill,
I installed the U-short and executed the BLUE-C-0 front panel
get an ERR on the display. I assume this is not good. Did I do
Randy:
Look at page #23 of the 3458A Calibration Manual. Make
Terminal Short" as shown and put it in as shown.
Before I did an ACAL I had around -000.00025 mVDC. After
read +000.00002 mVDC. I did the "CAL 0" myself so I would
meter should return to a low value, and it does. I do get a
+/- 30 nVDC using 100 PLC and just observing the variations.
I have never seen a spec on the ZERO stability over
If I turn on the MATH function and then do 40 measurements
the statistics show:
Low reading -70 nVDC
Mean reading -28 nVDC
High reading +3.5 nVDC
Total Variation 73 nVDC
So that correlates with my visual observation of 60 nVDC.
hour
the room had gone up around 1 degree C. Then I observed
After another ACAL the reading was again +000.00002 mVDC.
meter has a negative tempco as the room temp goes up.
Obviously do an ACAL before any precision measurements
nanovolts.
Go to the Keysight website and go to "Technical Support"
"Parts". Then enter in the "Part Number" "03458-66517" which
replacement "03458-66507" assembly and you will see the
number on the right hand side. Click on that and you will get
information about the exchange program and so on. Looks like
order this part online and pay for it with a credit card, but
create or use an existing login account.
I needed a new display a few years ago. At that time you
just the display for around $80. Being extremely good at
inserting and soldering I ordered the part. The problem was
spacing from top to bottom of the pins had changed. It went
1.3
inches to around 1.5 inches. So I had to bend the pins to fit
board and then get something like 72 pins into the holes on
It took hours. This change is probably why
you just get the display anymore but wants you to get the
assembly. It did work just fine once installed.
Hope this helps your decision to keep or not.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Evans" randyevans2688@gmail.com
To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Interesting note. After the room cooled down from about 79F
another ACAL, the meter now reads +000.00035 mVDC, a more
although it does bounce around a couple of tenths of a uV.
Maybe that is OK? If so, then the only issue would seem to
has some faint pixels, which a new display should fix.
Randy
On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Randy Evans
The unit seems to be working so far except for one issue.
ACAL, and making sure the Auto Zero is ON, I short the
copper wire shunt across the inputs and the reading is
-000.0023 mVDC. That seems rather high. I would expect
the input leads internally and force a zero reading during
Anyone have any comments on this reading?
Thanks,
Randy
On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Richard Moore
Hi Randy -- sounds like your unit is in cal, based on
of DCV and precision 10k resistor.
Using autocal all is recommended before doing precision
I do that if it's been more than a day or two since last
uses the internal Vref and an internal 10K resistor to do
else, so that tells you what the basic cal procedure is.
back from Loveland, and that's what they did for me --
ran autocal, then measured everything against a Fluke
3325, and another 3458.
It has been 5 years since I replaced the display board
deal was available then AFAIK, so I don't know what's
NVRAM board, which was dead, with one with the Snap-cap
those replacements, then sent it home for cal, which was
all the RAM was new. Now after 5 years, the unit passed
performance tests and was sent back to me without a cal
kind. This tells me that an old, well-aged Vref module
10VDC test had changed by a bit under 5ppm, or roughly
They have a cal deal -- use code 1.090 -- press them for
saved me 30% off the normal price. I think this deal
mid-September, so my recent "cal" ended up at just under
shipping. I'm not sure the deal is available on new or
unit was in their data bank.
But this is a long way of saying I don't think you need
cal -- just push Auto Cal and Enter and wait about 10
and follow the instructions there.
and follow the instructions there.
and follow the instructions there.
Todd,
I am very new to the 3458 so much of it is slowly unfolding mystery to me
(I'm a three day wonder). I went to the menu and selected FULL and then
TEMP? appeared. I am not sure where to find this but it's probably in the
manual somewhere. I will slowly uncover these secrets but it's frustrating
at times. Easy once you know it.
Thanks for the help, Todd.
Randy
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 9:17 PM, Todd Micallef <tmicallef@gmail.com> wrote:
> Randy,
>
> Do you mean that you can select it, but it won't give you a temperature? Or
> do you mean that you can't find it in the menu? If you go to the MENU
> option, select FULL or something like that. It should enable all the extra
> menus.
>
> If you can see it, I believe all you have to do is find it under the menu
> and hit Enter. I have tested mine and have never had an issue with getting
> a temperature measurement.
>
> Todd
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:48 PM, Randy Evans <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Can someone explain to me how to read the internal temperature using the
> > front panel TEMP? command. I have played around but I am doing
> something
> > wrong.
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > Randy
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Randy Evans <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > That worked! Now it reads 000.00030mV. So far it looks good except for
> > > the display.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Randy
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637@att.net>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> You need a comma "," between the "0" and the "3458". So blu C "CAL
> > >> 0,3458" "Enter".
> > >>
> > >> See pg. # 64 of the CAL Manual for the syntax.
> > >>
> > >> Bill
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
> > >> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts@febo.com>
> > >> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:25 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > Bill,
> > >> >
> > >> > You are very helpful and I really appreciate it.
> > >> >
> > >> > I entered BLUE-C-03458 and I still get the ERR message (106, "OUT OF
> > >> RANGE
> > >> > -- CAL secured"). That would be consistent with what you are
> > saying. I
> > >> > guess its no reason to panic yet.
> > >> >
> > >> > I'm not sure how to use the SECURE command. I guess it's time to
> > open
> > >> it
> > >> > up but I will probably have to get some PosiDrive screwdrivers.
> > >> >
> > >> > Thanks,
> > >> >
> > >> > Randy
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637@att.net>
> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > Randy:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > You are doing a ZERO calibration on the meter rather than a
> > ACAL.
> > >> You
> > >> > > have to give it a password after the "0" and then it will do the
> > ZERO
> > >> > > calibration. Usually the password is "3458" and comes from the
> > >> factory
> > >> > > that
> > >> > > way. But someone could have changed it in the past. You can do
> > this
> > >> from
> > >> > > the front panel menu using the SECURE command. But there is a
> > jumper
> > >> > > inside
> > >> > > the 3458A which disables the request for a password so that you
> can
> > do
> > >> any
> > >> > > CAL or reset the password to what you want. So everything is
> > working
> > >> as
> > >> > > expected. The jumper is JM600 on the outguard processor board
> 66505
> > >> or
> > >> > > 66515 on the left of the meter inside. Try "3458" first as most
> are
> > >> set
> > >> to
> > >> > > this password. Read the Calibration Manual pg. #8 for how to get
> > >> inside
> > >> of
> > >> > > the meter. You will need two sizes of a PosiDrive type
> screwdrivers
> > >> to
> > >> > > accomplish this. Again in the Cal Manual.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Bill
> > >> > >
> > >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >> > > From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
> > >> > > To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <
> volt-nuts@febo.com
> > >
> > >> > > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:22 AM
> > >> > > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > Bill,
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > I installed the U-short and executed the BLUE-C-0 front panel
> > >> command
> > >> and
> > >> > > I
> > >> > > > get an ERR on the display. I assume this is not good. Did I do
> > >> this
> > >> > > > correctly?
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Thanks,
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Randy
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637@att.net
> >
> > >> wrote:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > > Randy:
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Look at page #23 of the 3458A Calibration Manual. Make
> > >> yourself
> > >> a
> > >> > > "4
> > >> > > > > Terminal Short" as shown and put it in as shown.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Before I did an ACAL I had around -000.00025 mVDC. After
> > >> ACAL I
> > >> > > now
> > >> > > > > read +000.00002 mVDC. I did the "CAL 0" myself so I would
> > expect
> > >> that
> > >> > > the
> > >> > > > > meter should return to a low value, and it does. I do get a
> > >> variation
> > >> > > of
> > >> > > > > +/- 30 nVDC using 100 PLC and just observing the variations.
> > As I
> > >> > > remember
> > >> > > > > I have never seen a spec on the ZERO stability over
> temperature.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > If I turn on the MATH function and then do 40 measurements
> > >> with
> > >> 100
> > >> > > PLC
> > >> > > > > the statistics show:
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Low reading -70 nVDC
> > >> > > > > Mean reading -28 nVDC
> > >> > > > > High reading +3.5 nVDC
> > >> > > > > Total Variation 73 nVDC
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > So that correlates with my visual observation of 60 nVDC.
> > >> After
> > >> an
> > >> > > > > hour
> > >> > > > > the room had gone up around 1 degree C. Then I observed
> > >> -000.00023
> > >> > > mVDC.
> > >> > > > > After another ACAL the reading was again +000.00002 mVDC.
> This
> > >> > > particular
> > >> > > > > meter has a negative tempco as the room temp goes up.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Obviously do an ACAL before any precision measurements
> > >> requiring
> > >> > > low
> > >> > > > > nanovolts.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Go to the Keysight website and go to "Technical Support"
> and
> > >> choose
> > >> > > > > "Parts". Then enter in the "Part Number" "03458-66517" which
> > is
> > >> the
> > >> > > > > replacement "03458-66507" assembly and you will see the
> > >> replacement
> > >> > > part
> > >> > > > > number on the right hand side. Click on that and you will get
> > the
> > >> > > > > information about the exchange program and so on. Looks like
> > you
> > >> can
> > >> > > just
> > >> > > > > order this part online and pay for it with a credit card, but
> > you
> > >> have
> > >> > > to
> > >> > > > > create or use an existing login account.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > I needed a new display a few years ago. At that time you
> > >> could
> > >> > > order
> > >> > > > > just the display for around $80. Being extremely good at
> > removing
> > >> and
> > >> > > then
> > >> > > > > inserting and soldering I ordered the part. The problem was
> > that
> > >> the
> > >> > > > > spacing from top to bottom of the pins had changed. It went
> > from
> > >> > > around
> > >> > > > > 1.3
> > >> > > > > inches to around 1.5 inches. So I had to bend the pins to fit
> > my
> > >> > > display
> > >> > > > > board and then get something like 72 pins into the holes on
> the
> > PC
> > >> > > Board.
> > >> > > > > It took hours. This change is probably why
> HP/Agilent/Keysight
> > >> doesn't
> > >> > > let
> > >> > > > > you just get the display anymore but wants you to get the
> whole
> > PC
> > >> > > Board
> > >> > > > > assembly. It did work just fine once installed.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Hope this helps your decision to keep or not.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Bill
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >> > > > > From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
> > >> > > > > To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <
> > >> volt-nuts@febo.com>
> > >> > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:36 PM
> > >> > > > > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > > Interesting note. After the room cooled down from about 79F
> > to
> > >> 73F,
> > >> > > and
> > >> > > > > > another ACAL, the meter now reads +000.00035 mVDC, a more
> > >> reasonable
> > >> > > > > value,
> > >> > > > > > although it does bounce around a couple of tenths of a uV.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > Maybe that is OK? If so, then the only issue would seem to
> be
> > >> the
> > >> > > > > display
> > >> > > > > > has some faint pixels, which a new display should fix.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > Randy
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Randy Evans
> > >> > > <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
> > >> > > > > > wrote:
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > The unit seems to be working so far except for one issue.
> > >> After
> > >> > > doing
> > >> > > > > an
> > >> > > > > > > ACAL, and making sure the Auto Zero is ON, I short the
> > input
> > >> leads
> > >> > > > > with
> > >> > > > > a
> > >> > > > > > > copper wire shunt across the inputs and the reading is
> > >> > > approximately
> > >> > > > > > > -000.0023 mVDC. That seems rather high. I would expect
> > the
> > >> unit
> > >> > > to
> > >> > > > > short
> > >> > > > > > > the input leads internally and force a zero reading during
> > the
> > >> > > ACAL.
> > >> > > > > > > Anyone have any comments on this reading?
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > Randy
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Richard Moore
> > >> > > <richiem5683@gmail.com>
> > >> > > > > > > wrote:
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >> Hi Randy -- sounds like your unit is in cal, based on
> your
> > >> > > > > measurements
> > >> > > > > > >> of DCV and precision 10k resistor.
> > >> > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > >> Using autocal all is recommended before doing precision
> > >> > > measurements,
> > >> > > > > and
> > >> > > > > > >> I do that if it's been more than a day or two since last
> > use.
> > >> The
> > >> > > > > autocal
> > >> > > > > > >> uses the internal Vref and an internal 10K resistor to do
> > cal
> > >> on
> > >> > > > > everything
> > >> > > > > > >> else, so that tells you what the basic cal procedure is.
> I
> > >> just
> > >> > > got
> > >> > > my
> > >> > > > > 3458
> > >> > > > > > >> back from Loveland, and that's what they did for me --
> > warmed
> > >> it
> > >> > > up,
> > >> > > > > then
> > >> > > > > > >> ran autocal, then measured everything against a Fluke
> 5700,
> > >> aided
> > >> > > by
> > >> > > > > an
> > >> > > > > HP
> > >> > > > > > >> 3325, and another 3458.
> > >> > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > >> It has been 5 years since I replaced the display board
> (no
> > >> > > "exchange"
> > >> > > > > > >> deal was available then AFAIK, so I don't know what's
> > >> changed)
> > >> and
> > >> > > > > also
> > >> > > > > the
> > >> > > > > > >> NVRAM board, which was dead, with one with the Snap-cap
> RAM
> > >> chips.
> > >> > > I
> > >> > > > > did
> > >> > > > > > >> those replacements, then sent it home for cal, which was
> > >> complete,
> > >> > > > > since
> > >> > > > > > >> all the RAM was new. Now after 5 years, the unit passed
> all
> > >> > > incoming
> > >> > > > > > >> performance tests and was sent back to me without a cal
> > >> process
> > >> of
> > >> > > any
> > >> > > > > > >> kind. This tells me that an old, well-aged Vref module
> is a
> > >> good
> > >> > > > > thing.
> > >> > > > > The
> > >> > > > > > >> 10VDC test had changed by a bit under 5ppm, or roughly
> > >> 1ppm/year.
> > >> > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > >> They have a cal deal -- use code 1.090 -- press them for
> it
> > >> --
> > >> and
> > >> > > > > that
> > >> > > > > > >> saved me 30% off the normal price. I think this deal
> lasts
> > >> until
> > >> > > > > > >> mid-September, so my recent "cal" ended up at just under
> > $400
> > >> > > > > including
> > >> > > > > > >> shipping. I'm not sure the deal is available on new or
> > >> first-time
> > >> > > > > cals;
> > >> > > > > my
> > >> > > > > > >> unit was in their data bank.
> > >> > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > >> But this is a long way of saying I don't think you need
> to
> > >> send
> > >> it
> > >> > > for
> > >> > > > > > >> cal -- just push Auto Cal and Enter and wait about 10
> > minutes
> > >> and
> > >> > > you
> > >> > > > > > >> should be good to go.
> > >> > > > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> > > > > > >> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
> > >> > > > > > >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> > >> > > > > > >> mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
> > >> > > > > > >> and follow the instructions there.
> > >> > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > >> > > > > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
> > >> > > > > > To unsubscribe, go to
> > >> > > > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
> > >> > > > > > and follow the instructions there.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > >> > > > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
> > >> > > > > To unsubscribe, go to
> > >> > > > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
> > >> > > > > and follow the instructions there.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > _______________________________________________
> > >> > > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
> > >> > > > To unsubscribe, go to
> > >> > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
> > >> > > > and follow the instructions there.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > _______________________________________________
> > >> > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
> > >> > > To unsubscribe, go to
> > >> > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
> > >> > > and follow the instructions there.
> > >> > >
> > >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
> > >> > To unsubscribe, go to
> > >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
> > >> > and follow the instructions there.
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
> > >> To unsubscribe, go to
> > >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
> > >> and follow the instructions there.
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
CB
Charles Black
Mon, Aug 18, 2014 2:27 PM
Hit the grey key in the "FUNCTION/RANGE" key block. Then hit "T" (light
grey marking) in the "MENU" key block Then hit down arrow twice in the
"FUNCTION/RANGE" key block. You will now have TEMP? on the display. Then
hit the "Enter" key in the "NUMERIC/USER" key block. Now you should see
the TEMP? value in degrees Celsius.
Charlie
On 8/17/2014 8:48 PM, Randy Evans wrote:
Can someone explain to me how to read the internal temperature using the
front panel TEMP? command. I have played around but I am doing something
wrong.
thanks,
Randy
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Randy Evans randyevans2688@gmail.com
wrote:
That worked! Now it reads 000.00030mV. So far it looks good except for
the display.
Thanks,
Randy
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Bill Gold wpgold3637@att.net wrote:
You need a comma "," between the "0" and the "3458". So blu C "CAL
0,3458" "Enter".
See pg. # 64 of the CAL Manual for the syntax.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Evans" randyevans2688@gmail.com
To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" volt-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Bill,
You are very helpful and I really appreciate it.
I entered BLUE-C-03458 and I still get the ERR message (106, "OUT OF
-- CAL secured"). That would be consistent with what you are saying. I
guess its no reason to panic yet.
I'm not sure how to use the SECURE command. I guess it's time to open
up but I will probably have to get some PosiDrive screwdrivers.
Thanks,
Randy
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Bill Gold wpgold3637@att.net wrote:
Randy:
You are doing a ZERO calibration on the meter rather than a ACAL.
have to give it a password after the "0" and then it will do the ZERO
calibration. Usually the password is "3458" and comes from the
that
way. But someone could have changed it in the past. You can do this
the front panel menu using the SECURE command. But there is a jumper
inside
the 3458A which disables the request for a password so that you can do
CAL or reset the password to what you want. So everything is working
expected. The jumper is JM600 on the outguard processor board 66505
66515 on the left of the meter inside. Try "3458" first as most are
this password. Read the Calibration Manual pg. #8 for how to get
the meter. You will need two sizes of a PosiDrive type screwdrivers
accomplish this. Again in the Cal Manual.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Evans" randyevans2688@gmail.com
To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" volt-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Bill,
I installed the U-short and executed the BLUE-C-0 front panel
get an ERR on the display. I assume this is not good. Did I do
Randy:
Look at page #23 of the 3458A Calibration Manual. Make
Terminal Short" as shown and put it in as shown.
Before I did an ACAL I had around -000.00025 mVDC. After
read +000.00002 mVDC. I did the "CAL 0" myself so I would expect
meter should return to a low value, and it does. I do get a
+/- 30 nVDC using 100 PLC and just observing the variations. As I
I have never seen a spec on the ZERO stability over temperature.
If I turn on the MATH function and then do 40 measurements
the statistics show:
Low reading -70 nVDC
Mean reading -28 nVDC
High reading +3.5 nVDC
Total Variation 73 nVDC
So that correlates with my visual observation of 60 nVDC.
hour
the room had gone up around 1 degree C. Then I observed
After another ACAL the reading was again +000.00002 mVDC. This
meter has a negative tempco as the room temp goes up.
Obviously do an ACAL before any precision measurements
nanovolts.
Go to the Keysight website and go to "Technical Support" and
"Parts". Then enter in the "Part Number" "03458-66517" which is
replacement "03458-66507" assembly and you will see the
number on the right hand side. Click on that and you will get the
information about the exchange program and so on. Looks like you
order this part online and pay for it with a credit card, but you
create or use an existing login account.
I needed a new display a few years ago. At that time you
just the display for around $80. Being extremely good at removing
inserting and soldering I ordered the part. The problem was that
spacing from top to bottom of the pins had changed. It went from
1.3
inches to around 1.5 inches. So I had to bend the pins to fit my
board and then get something like 72 pins into the holes on the PC
It took hours. This change is probably why HP/Agilent/Keysight
you just get the display anymore but wants you to get the whole PC
assembly. It did work just fine once installed.
Hope this helps your decision to keep or not.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Evans" randyevans2688@gmail.com
To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Interesting note. After the room cooled down from about 79F to
another ACAL, the meter now reads +000.00035 mVDC, a more
although it does bounce around a couple of tenths of a uV.
Maybe that is OK? If so, then the only issue would seem to be
has some faint pixels, which a new display should fix.
Randy
On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Randy Evans
The unit seems to be working so far except for one issue.
ACAL, and making sure the Auto Zero is ON, I short the input
copper wire shunt across the inputs and the reading is
-000.0023 mVDC. That seems rather high. I would expect the
the input leads internally and force a zero reading during the
Anyone have any comments on this reading?
Thanks,
Randy
On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Richard Moore
Hi Randy -- sounds like your unit is in cal, based on your
of DCV and precision 10k resistor.
Using autocal all is recommended before doing precision
I do that if it's been more than a day or two since last use.
uses the internal Vref and an internal 10K resistor to do cal
else, so that tells you what the basic cal procedure is. I
back from Loveland, and that's what they did for me -- warmed
ran autocal, then measured everything against a Fluke 5700,
3325, and another 3458.
It has been 5 years since I replaced the display board (no
deal was available then AFAIK, so I don't know what's
NVRAM board, which was dead, with one with the Snap-cap RAM
those replacements, then sent it home for cal, which was
all the RAM was new. Now after 5 years, the unit passed all
performance tests and was sent back to me without a cal
kind. This tells me that an old, well-aged Vref module is a
10VDC test had changed by a bit under 5ppm, or roughly
They have a cal deal -- use code 1.090 -- press them for it
saved me 30% off the normal price. I think this deal lasts
mid-September, so my recent "cal" ended up at just under $400
shipping. I'm not sure the deal is available on new or
unit was in their data bank.
But this is a long way of saying I don't think you need to
cal -- just push Auto Cal and Enter and wait about 10 minutes
and follow the instructions there.
and follow the instructions there.
and follow the instructions there.
Hit the grey key in the "FUNCTION/RANGE" key block. Then hit "T" (light
grey marking) in the "MENU" key block Then hit down arrow twice in the
"FUNCTION/RANGE" key block. You will now have TEMP? on the display. Then
hit the "Enter" key in the "NUMERIC/USER" key block. Now you should see
the TEMP? value in degrees Celsius.
Charlie
On 8/17/2014 8:48 PM, Randy Evans wrote:
> Can someone explain to me how to read the internal temperature using the
> front panel TEMP? command. I have played around but I am doing something
> wrong.
>
> thanks,
>
> Randy
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Randy Evans <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> That worked! Now it reads 000.00030mV. So far it looks good except for
>> the display.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Randy
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>> You need a comma "," between the "0" and the "3458". So blu C "CAL
>>> 0,3458" "Enter".
>>>
>>> See pg. # 64 of the CAL Manual for the syntax.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
>>> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts@febo.com>
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:25 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
>>>
>>>
>>>> Bill,
>>>>
>>>> You are very helpful and I really appreciate it.
>>>>
>>>> I entered BLUE-C-03458 and I still get the ERR message (106, "OUT OF
>>> RANGE
>>>> -- CAL secured"). That would be consistent with what you are saying. I
>>>> guess its no reason to panic yet.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure how to use the SECURE command. I guess it's time to open
>>> it
>>>> up but I will probably have to get some PosiDrive screwdrivers.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Randy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637@att.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Randy:
>>>>>
>>>>> You are doing a ZERO calibration on the meter rather than a ACAL.
>>> You
>>>>> have to give it a password after the "0" and then it will do the ZERO
>>>>> calibration. Usually the password is "3458" and comes from the
>>> factory
>>>>> that
>>>>> way. But someone could have changed it in the past. You can do this
>>> from
>>>>> the front panel menu using the SECURE command. But there is a jumper
>>>>> inside
>>>>> the 3458A which disables the request for a password so that you can do
>>> any
>>>>> CAL or reset the password to what you want. So everything is working
>>> as
>>>>> expected. The jumper is JM600 on the outguard processor board 66505
>>> or
>>>>> 66515 on the left of the meter inside. Try "3458" first as most are
>>> set
>>> to
>>>>> this password. Read the Calibration Manual pg. #8 for how to get
>>> inside
>>> of
>>>>> the meter. You will need two sizes of a PosiDrive type screwdrivers
>>> to
>>>>> accomplish this. Again in the Cal Manual.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts@febo.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:22 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I installed the U-short and executed the BLUE-C-0 front panel
>>> command
>>> and
>>>>> I
>>>>>> get an ERR on the display. I assume this is not good. Did I do
>>> this
>>>>>> correctly?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Randy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637@att.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Randy:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Look at page #23 of the 3458A Calibration Manual. Make
>>> yourself
>>> a
>>>>> "4
>>>>>>> Terminal Short" as shown and put it in as shown.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Before I did an ACAL I had around -000.00025 mVDC. After
>>> ACAL I
>>>>> now
>>>>>>> read +000.00002 mVDC. I did the "CAL 0" myself so I would expect
>>> that
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> meter should return to a low value, and it does. I do get a
>>> variation
>>>>> of
>>>>>>> +/- 30 nVDC using 100 PLC and just observing the variations. As I
>>>>> remember
>>>>>>> I have never seen a spec on the ZERO stability over temperature.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If I turn on the MATH function and then do 40 measurements
>>> with
>>> 100
>>>>> PLC
>>>>>>> the statistics show:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Low reading -70 nVDC
>>>>>>> Mean reading -28 nVDC
>>>>>>> High reading +3.5 nVDC
>>>>>>> Total Variation 73 nVDC
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So that correlates with my visual observation of 60 nVDC.
>>> After
>>> an
>>>>>>> hour
>>>>>>> the room had gone up around 1 degree C. Then I observed
>>> -000.00023
>>>>> mVDC.
>>>>>>> After another ACAL the reading was again +000.00002 mVDC. This
>>>>> particular
>>>>>>> meter has a negative tempco as the room temp goes up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Obviously do an ACAL before any precision measurements
>>> requiring
>>>>> low
>>>>>>> nanovolts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Go to the Keysight website and go to "Technical Support" and
>>> choose
>>>>>>> "Parts". Then enter in the "Part Number" "03458-66517" which is
>>> the
>>>>>>> replacement "03458-66507" assembly and you will see the
>>> replacement
>>>>> part
>>>>>>> number on the right hand side. Click on that and you will get the
>>>>>>> information about the exchange program and so on. Looks like you
>>> can
>>>>> just
>>>>>>> order this part online and pay for it with a credit card, but you
>>> have
>>>>> to
>>>>>>> create or use an existing login account.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I needed a new display a few years ago. At that time you
>>> could
>>>>> order
>>>>>>> just the display for around $80. Being extremely good at removing
>>> and
>>>>> then
>>>>>>> inserting and soldering I ordered the part. The problem was that
>>> the
>>>>>>> spacing from top to bottom of the pins had changed. It went from
>>>>> around
>>>>>>> 1.3
>>>>>>> inches to around 1.5 inches. So I had to bend the pins to fit my
>>>>> display
>>>>>>> board and then get something like 72 pins into the holes on the PC
>>>>> Board.
>>>>>>> It took hours. This change is probably why HP/Agilent/Keysight
>>> doesn't
>>>>> let
>>>>>>> you just get the display anymore but wants you to get the whole PC
>>>>> Board
>>>>>>> assembly. It did work just fine once installed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hope this helps your decision to keep or not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <
>>> volt-nuts@febo.com>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:36 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Interesting note. After the room cooled down from about 79F to
>>> 73F,
>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> another ACAL, the meter now reads +000.00035 mVDC, a more
>>> reasonable
>>>>>>> value,
>>>>>>>> although it does bounce around a couple of tenths of a uV.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe that is OK? If so, then the only issue would seem to be
>>> the
>>>>>>> display
>>>>>>>> has some faint pixels, which a new display should fix.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Randy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Randy Evans
>>>>> <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The unit seems to be working so far except for one issue.
>>> After
>>>>> doing
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>> ACAL, and making sure the Auto Zero is ON, I short the input
>>> leads
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> copper wire shunt across the inputs and the reading is
>>>>> approximately
>>>>>>>>> -000.0023 mVDC. That seems rather high. I would expect the
>>> unit
>>>>> to
>>>>>>> short
>>>>>>>>> the input leads internally and force a zero reading during the
>>>>> ACAL.
>>>>>>>>> Anyone have any comments on this reading?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Randy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Richard Moore
>>>>> <richiem5683@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Randy -- sounds like your unit is in cal, based on your
>>>>>>> measurements
>>>>>>>>>> of DCV and precision 10k resistor.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Using autocal all is recommended before doing precision
>>>>> measurements,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> I do that if it's been more than a day or two since last use.
>>> The
>>>>>>> autocal
>>>>>>>>>> uses the internal Vref and an internal 10K resistor to do cal
>>> on
>>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>>>>> else, so that tells you what the basic cal procedure is. I
>>> just
>>>>> got
>>>>> my
>>>>>>> 3458
>>>>>>>>>> back from Loveland, and that's what they did for me -- warmed
>>> it
>>>>> up,
>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>>>> ran autocal, then measured everything against a Fluke 5700,
>>> aided
>>>>> by
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>> HP
>>>>>>>>>> 3325, and another 3458.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It has been 5 years since I replaced the display board (no
>>>>> "exchange"
>>>>>>>>>> deal was available then AFAIK, so I don't know what's
>>> changed)
>>> and
>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> NVRAM board, which was dead, with one with the Snap-cap RAM
>>> chips.
>>>>> I
>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>>>> those replacements, then sent it home for cal, which was
>>> complete,
>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>>> all the RAM was new. Now after 5 years, the unit passed all
>>>>> incoming
>>>>>>>>>> performance tests and was sent back to me without a cal
>>> process
>>> of
>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>>> kind. This tells me that an old, well-aged Vref module is a
>>> good
>>>>>>> thing.
>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>> 10VDC test had changed by a bit under 5ppm, or roughly
>>> 1ppm/year.
>>>>>>>>>> They have a cal deal -- use code 1.090 -- press them for it
>>> --
>>> and
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> saved me 30% off the normal price. I think this deal lasts
>>> until
>>>>>>>>>> mid-September, so my recent "cal" ended up at just under $400
>>>>>>> including
>>>>>>>>>> shipping. I'm not sure the deal is available on new or
>>> first-time
>>>>>>> cals;
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>> unit was in their data bank.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But this is a long way of saying I don't think you need to
>>> send
>>> it
>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> cal -- just push Auto Cal and Enter and wait about 10 minutes
>>> and
>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> should be good to go.
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
>>>>>>>>>> mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>>>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
>
>
RE
Randy Evans
Mon, Aug 18, 2014 8:46 PM
I finally found it after I realized I had to select the LONG MENU first.
Thanks,
Randy
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 7:27 AM, Charles Black cblack@centurytel.net
wrote:
Hit the grey key in the "FUNCTION/RANGE" key block. Then hit "T" (light
grey marking) in the "MENU" key block Then hit down arrow twice in the
"FUNCTION/RANGE" key block. You will now have TEMP? on the display. Then
hit the "Enter" key in the "NUMERIC/USER" key block. Now you should see the
TEMP? value in degrees Celsius.
Charlie
On 8/17/2014 8:48 PM, Randy Evans wrote:
Can someone explain to me how to read the internal temperature using the
front panel TEMP? command. I have played around but I am doing something
wrong.
thanks,
Randy
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Randy Evans randyevans2688@gmail.com
wrote:
That worked! Now it reads 000.00030mV. So far it looks good except for
the display.
Thanks,
Randy
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Bill Gold wpgold3637@att.net wrote:
You need a comma "," between the "0" and the "3458". So blu C "CAL
0,3458" "Enter".
See pg. # 64 of the CAL Manual for the syntax.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Evans" randyevans2688@gmail.com
To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" volt-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Bill,
You are very helpful and I really appreciate it.
I entered BLUE-C-03458 and I still get the ERR message (106, "OUT OF
-- CAL secured"). That would be consistent with what you are saying.
I
guess its no reason to panic yet.
I'm not sure how to use the SECURE command. I guess it's time to open
up but I will probably have to get some PosiDrive screwdrivers.
Thanks,
Randy
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Bill Gold wpgold3637@att.net
wrote:
Randy:
You are doing a ZERO calibration on the meter rather than a ACAL.
have to give it a password after the "0" and then it will do the ZERO
calibration. Usually the password is "3458" and comes from the
way. But someone could have changed it in the past. You can do this
the front panel menu using the SECURE command. But there is a jumper
inside
the 3458A which disables the request for a password so that you can do
CAL or reset the password to what you want. So everything is working
expected. The jumper is JM600 on the outguard processor board 66505
66515 on the left of the meter inside. Try "3458" first as most are
this password. Read the Calibration Manual pg. #8 for how to get
the meter. You will need two sizes of a PosiDrive type screwdrivers
accomplish this. Again in the Cal Manual.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Evans" randyevans2688@gmail.com
To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" volt-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Bill,
I installed the U-short and executed the BLUE-C-0 front panel
get an ERR on the display. I assume this is not good. Did I do
Look at page #23 of the 3458A Calibration Manual. Make
Terminal Short" as shown and put it in as shown.
Before I did an ACAL I had around -000.00025 mVDC. After
read +000.00002 mVDC. I did the "CAL 0" myself so I would expect
meter should return to a low value, and it does. I do get a
+/- 30 nVDC using 100 PLC and just observing the variations. As I
I have never seen a spec on the ZERO stability over temperature.
If I turn on the MATH function and then do 40 measurements
Low reading -70 nVDC
Mean reading -28 nVDC
High reading +3.5 nVDC
Total Variation 73 nVDC
So that correlates with my visual observation of 60 nVDC.
the room had gone up around 1 degree C. Then I observed
After another ACAL the reading was again +000.00002 mVDC. This
meter has a negative tempco as the room temp goes up.
Obviously do an ACAL before any precision measurements
Go to the Keysight website and go to "Technical Support" and
"Parts". Then enter in the "Part Number" "03458-66517" which is
replacement "03458-66507" assembly and you will see the
number on the right hand side. Click on that and you will get the
information about the exchange program and so on. Looks like you
order this part online and pay for it with a credit card, but you
create or use an existing login account.
I needed a new display a few years ago. At that time you
just the display for around $80. Being extremely good at removing
inserting and soldering I ordered the part. The problem was that
spacing from top to bottom of the pins had changed. It went from
inches to around 1.5 inches. So I had to bend the pins to fit my
board and then get something like 72 pins into the holes on the PC
It took hours. This change is probably why HP/Agilent/Keysight
you just get the display anymore but wants you to get the whole PC
assembly. It did work just fine once installed.
Hope this helps your decision to keep or not.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Evans" randyevans2688@gmail.com
To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Interesting note. After the room cooled down from about 79F to
another ACAL, the meter now reads +000.00035 mVDC, a more
although it does bounce around a couple of tenths of a uV.
Maybe that is OK? If so, then the only issue would seem to be
has some faint pixels, which a new display should fix.
Randy
On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Randy Evans
The unit seems to be working so far except for one issue.
ACAL, and making sure the Auto Zero is ON, I short the input
copper wire shunt across the inputs and the reading is
-000.0023 mVDC. That seems rather high. I would expect the
the input leads internally and force a zero reading during the
Anyone have any comments on this reading?
Thanks,
Randy
On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Richard Moore
Hi Randy -- sounds like your unit is in cal, based on your
of DCV and precision 10k resistor.
Using autocal all is recommended before doing precision
I do that if it's been more than a day or two since last use.
uses the internal Vref and an internal 10K resistor to do cal
else, so that tells you what the basic cal procedure is. I
back from Loveland, and that's what they did for me -- warmed
ran autocal, then measured everything against a Fluke 5700,
It has been 5 years since I replaced the display board (no
deal was available then AFAIK, so I don't know what's
NVRAM board, which was dead, with one with the Snap-cap RAM
those replacements, then sent it home for cal, which was
all the RAM was new. Now after 5 years, the unit passed all
performance tests and was sent back to me without a cal
kind. This tells me that an old, well-aged Vref module is a
10VDC test had changed by a bit under 5ppm, or roughly
They have a cal deal -- use code 1.090 -- press them for it
saved me 30% off the normal price. I think this deal lasts
mid-September, so my recent "cal" ended up at just under $400
shipping. I'm not sure the deal is available on new or
unit was in their data bank.
But this is a long way of saying I don't think you need to
cal -- just push Auto Cal and Enter and wait about 10 minutes
and follow the instructions there.
and follow the instructions there.
and follow the instructions there.
I finally found it after I realized I had to select the LONG MENU first.
Thanks,
Randy
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 7:27 AM, Charles Black <cblack@centurytel.net>
wrote:
> Hit the grey key in the "FUNCTION/RANGE" key block. Then hit "T" (light
> grey marking) in the "MENU" key block Then hit down arrow twice in the
> "FUNCTION/RANGE" key block. You will now have TEMP? on the display. Then
> hit the "Enter" key in the "NUMERIC/USER" key block. Now you should see the
> TEMP? value in degrees Celsius.
>
> Charlie
>
>
> On 8/17/2014 8:48 PM, Randy Evans wrote:
>
>> Can someone explain to me how to read the internal temperature using the
>> front panel TEMP? command. I have played around but I am doing something
>> wrong.
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> Randy
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Randy Evans <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> That worked! Now it reads 000.00030mV. So far it looks good except for
>>> the display.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Randy
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637@att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> You need a comma "," between the "0" and the "3458". So blu C "CAL
>>>> 0,3458" "Enter".
>>>>
>>>> See pg. # 64 of the CAL Manual for the syntax.
>>>>
>>>> Bill
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
>>>> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts@febo.com>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:25 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bill,
>>>>>
>>>>> You are very helpful and I really appreciate it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I entered BLUE-C-03458 and I still get the ERR message (106, "OUT OF
>>>>>
>>>> RANGE
>>>>
>>>>> -- CAL secured"). That would be consistent with what you are saying.
>>>>> I
>>>>> guess its no reason to panic yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure how to use the SECURE command. I guess it's time to open
>>>>>
>>>> it
>>>>
>>>>> up but I will probably have to get some PosiDrive screwdrivers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Randy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637@att.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Randy:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are doing a ZERO calibration on the meter rather than a ACAL.
>>>>>>
>>>>> You
>>>>
>>>>> have to give it a password after the "0" and then it will do the ZERO
>>>>>> calibration. Usually the password is "3458" and comes from the
>>>>>>
>>>>> factory
>>>>
>>>>> that
>>>>>> way. But someone could have changed it in the past. You can do this
>>>>>>
>>>>> from
>>>>
>>>>> the front panel menu using the SECURE command. But there is a jumper
>>>>>> inside
>>>>>> the 3458A which disables the request for a password so that you can do
>>>>>>
>>>>> any
>>>>
>>>>> CAL or reset the password to what you want. So everything is working
>>>>>>
>>>>> as
>>>>
>>>>> expected. The jumper is JM600 on the outguard processor board 66505
>>>>>>
>>>>> or
>>>>
>>>>> 66515 on the left of the meter inside. Try "3458" first as most are
>>>>>>
>>>>> set
>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>> this password. Read the Calibration Manual pg. #8 for how to get
>>>>>>
>>>>> inside
>>>> of
>>>>
>>>>> the meter. You will need two sizes of a PosiDrive type screwdrivers
>>>>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>> accomplish this. Again in the Cal Manual.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts@febo.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:22 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I installed the U-short and executed the BLUE-C-0 front panel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> command
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>> I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> get an ERR on the display. I assume this is not good. Did I do
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> this
>>>>
>>>>> correctly?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Randy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637@att.net>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Randy:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Look at page #23 of the 3458A Calibration Manual. Make
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> yourself
>>>> a
>>>>
>>>>> "4
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Terminal Short" as shown and put it in as shown.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Before I did an ACAL I had around -000.00025 mVDC. After
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ACAL I
>>>>
>>>>> now
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> read +000.00002 mVDC. I did the "CAL 0" myself so I would expect
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> that
>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> meter should return to a low value, and it does. I do get a
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> variation
>>>>
>>>>> of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> +/- 30 nVDC using 100 PLC and just observing the variations. As I
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have never seen a spec on the ZERO stability over temperature.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I turn on the MATH function and then do 40 measurements
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> with
>>>> 100
>>>>
>>>>> PLC
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the statistics show:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Low reading -70 nVDC
>>>>>>>> Mean reading -28 nVDC
>>>>>>>> High reading +3.5 nVDC
>>>>>>>> Total Variation 73 nVDC
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So that correlates with my visual observation of 60 nVDC.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After
>>>> an
>>>>
>>>>> hour
>>>>>>>> the room had gone up around 1 degree C. Then I observed
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -000.00023
>>>>
>>>>> mVDC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After another ACAL the reading was again +000.00002 mVDC. This
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> particular
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> meter has a negative tempco as the room temp goes up.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Obviously do an ACAL before any precision measurements
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> requiring
>>>>
>>>>> low
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> nanovolts.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Go to the Keysight website and go to "Technical Support" and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> choose
>>>>
>>>>> "Parts". Then enter in the "Part Number" "03458-66517" which is
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> replacement "03458-66507" assembly and you will see the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> replacement
>>>>
>>>>> part
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> number on the right hand side. Click on that and you will get the
>>>>>>>> information about the exchange program and so on. Looks like you
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> can
>>>>
>>>>> just
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> order this part online and pay for it with a credit card, but you
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> have
>>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> create or use an existing login account.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I needed a new display a few years ago. At that time you
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> could
>>>>
>>>>> order
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> just the display for around $80. Being extremely good at removing
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>> then
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> inserting and soldering I ordered the part. The problem was that
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> spacing from top to bottom of the pins had changed. It went from
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1.3
>>>>>>>> inches to around 1.5 inches. So I had to bend the pins to fit my
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> display
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> board and then get something like 72 pins into the holes on the PC
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Board.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It took hours. This change is probably why HP/Agilent/Keysight
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>
>>>>> let
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> you just get the display anymore but wants you to get the whole PC
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Board
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> assembly. It did work just fine once installed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hope this helps your decision to keep or not.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> volt-nuts@febo.com>
>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:36 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Interesting note. After the room cooled down from about 79F to
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 73F,
>>>>
>>>>> and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> another ACAL, the meter now reads +000.00035 mVDC, a more
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> reasonable
>>>>
>>>>> value,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> although it does bounce around a couple of tenths of a uV.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Maybe that is OK? If so, then the only issue would seem to be
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> display
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> has some faint pixels, which a new display should fix.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Randy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Randy Evans
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The unit seems to be working so far except for one issue.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> After
>>>>
>>>>> doing
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ACAL, and making sure the Auto Zero is ON, I short the input
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> leads
>>>>
>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> copper wire shunt across the inputs and the reading is
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> approximately
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -000.0023 mVDC. That seems rather high. I would expect the
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> unit
>>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> short
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the input leads internally and force a zero reading during the
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ACAL.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyone have any comments on this reading?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Randy
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Richard Moore
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <richiem5683@gmail.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Randy -- sounds like your unit is in cal, based on your
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> measurements
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> of DCV and precision 10k resistor.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Using autocal all is recommended before doing precision
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> measurements,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I do that if it's been more than a day or two since last use.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>
>>>>> autocal
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> uses the internal Vref and an internal 10K resistor to do cal
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>
>>>>> everything
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> else, so that tells you what the basic cal procedure is. I
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>
>>>>> got
>>>>>> my
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3458
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> back from Loveland, and that's what they did for me -- warmed
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>
>>>>> up,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ran autocal, then measured everything against a Fluke 5700,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> aided
>>>>
>>>>> by
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>> HP
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 3325, and another 3458.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It has been 5 years since I replaced the display board (no
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "exchange"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> deal was available then AFAIK, so I don't know what's
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> changed)
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>> also
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> NVRAM board, which was dead, with one with the Snap-cap RAM
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> chips.
>>>>
>>>>> I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> those replacements, then sent it home for cal, which was
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> complete,
>>>>
>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> all the RAM was new. Now after 5 years, the unit passed all
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> incoming
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> performance tests and was sent back to me without a cal
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> process
>>>> of
>>>>
>>>>> any
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> kind. This tells me that an old, well-aged Vref module is a
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>
>>>>> thing.
>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 10VDC test had changed by a bit under 5ppm, or roughly
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1ppm/year.
>>>>
>>>>> They have a cal deal -- use code 1.090 -- press them for it
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> saved me 30% off the normal price. I think this deal lasts
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> until
>>>>
>>>>> mid-September, so my recent "cal" ended up at just under $400
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> including
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> shipping. I'm not sure the deal is available on new or
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> first-time
>>>>
>>>>> cals;
>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> unit was in their data bank.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But this is a long way of saying I don't think you need to
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> send
>>>> it
>>>>
>>>>> for
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> cal -- just push Auto Cal and Enter and wait about 10 minutes
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>> you
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> should be good to go.
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
>>>>>>>>>>> mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>>>>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>>>>
>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>>>>
>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
>> mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
CB
Charles Black
Mon, Aug 18, 2014 9:26 PM
It faster to use alphabetical menu system. Also I forgot to mention that
if you want to recall a recent command just hit the grey button and then
the enter button ("Recall"). This can be done over and over to bring
back older commands.
Charlie
On 8/18/2014 1:46 PM, Randy Evans wrote:
I finally found it after I realized I had to select the LONG MENU first.
Thanks,
Randy
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 7:27 AM, Charles Black cblack@centurytel.net
wrote:
Hit the grey key in the "FUNCTION/RANGE" key block. Then hit "T" (light
grey marking) in the "MENU" key block Then hit down arrow twice in the
"FUNCTION/RANGE" key block. You will now have TEMP? on the display. Then
hit the "Enter" key in the "NUMERIC/USER" key block. Now you should see the
TEMP? value in degrees Celsius.
Charlie
On 8/17/2014 8:48 PM, Randy Evans wrote:
Can someone explain to me how to read the internal temperature using the
front panel TEMP? command. I have played around but I am doing something
wrong.
thanks,
Randy
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Randy Evans randyevans2688@gmail.com
wrote:
That worked! Now it reads 000.00030mV. So far it looks good except for
the display.
Thanks,
Randy
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Bill Gold wpgold3637@att.net wrote:
You need a comma "," between the "0" and the "3458". So blu C "CAL
0,3458" "Enter".
See pg. # 64 of the CAL Manual for the syntax.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Evans" randyevans2688@gmail.com
To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" volt-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Bill,
You are very helpful and I really appreciate it.
I entered BLUE-C-03458 and I still get the ERR message (106, "OUT OF
-- CAL secured"). That would be consistent with what you are saying.
I
guess its no reason to panic yet.
I'm not sure how to use the SECURE command. I guess it's time to open
up but I will probably have to get some PosiDrive screwdrivers.
Thanks,
Randy
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Bill Gold wpgold3637@att.net
wrote:
Randy:
You are doing a ZERO calibration on the meter rather than a ACAL.
You
have to give it a password after the "0" and then it will do the ZERO
calibration. Usually the password is "3458" and comes from the
way. But someone could have changed it in the past. You can do this
from
the front panel menu using the SECURE command. But there is a jumper
inside
the 3458A which disables the request for a password so that you can do
any
CAL or reset the password to what you want. So everything is working
as
expected. The jumper is JM600 on the outguard processor board 66505
or
66515 on the left of the meter inside. Try "3458" first as most are
set
this password. Read the Calibration Manual pg. #8 for how to get
inside
the meter. You will need two sizes of a PosiDrive type screwdrivers
to
accomplish this. Again in the Cal Manual.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Evans" randyevans2688@gmail.com
To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" volt-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Bill,
I installed the U-short and executed the BLUE-C-0 front panel
get an ERR on the display. I assume this is not good. Did I do
Look at page #23 of the 3458A Calibration Manual. Make
Terminal Short" as shown and put it in as shown.
Before I did an ACAL I had around -000.00025 mVDC. After
read +000.00002 mVDC. I did the "CAL 0" myself so I would expect
that
meter should return to a low value, and it does. I do get a
variation
+/- 30 nVDC using 100 PLC and just observing the variations. As I
remember
I have never seen a spec on the ZERO stability over temperature.
If I turn on the MATH function and then do 40 measurements
Low reading -70 nVDC
Mean reading -28 nVDC
High reading +3.5 nVDC
Total Variation 73 nVDC
So that correlates with my visual observation of 60 nVDC.
the room had gone up around 1 degree C. Then I observed
After another ACAL the reading was again +000.00002 mVDC. This
particular
meter has a negative tempco as the room temp goes up.
Obviously do an ACAL before any precision measurements
Go to the Keysight website and go to "Technical Support" and
"Parts". Then enter in the "Part Number" "03458-66517" which is
replacement "03458-66507" assembly and you will see the
number on the right hand side. Click on that and you will get the
information about the exchange program and so on. Looks like you
order this part online and pay for it with a credit card, but you
have
create or use an existing login account.
I needed a new display a few years ago. At that time you
just the display for around $80. Being extremely good at removing
and
inserting and soldering I ordered the part. The problem was that
the
spacing from top to bottom of the pins had changed. It went from
inches to around 1.5 inches. So I had to bend the pins to fit my
display
board and then get something like 72 pins into the holes on the PC
Board.
It took hours. This change is probably why HP/Agilent/Keysight
doesn't
you just get the display anymore but wants you to get the whole PC
Board
assembly. It did work just fine once installed.
Hope this helps your decision to keep or not.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Evans" randyevans2688@gmail.com
To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Interesting note. After the room cooled down from about 79F to
73F,
another ACAL, the meter now reads +000.00035 mVDC, a more
although it does bounce around a couple of tenths of a uV.
Maybe that is OK? If so, then the only issue would seem to be
has some faint pixels, which a new display should fix.
Randy
On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Randy Evans
The unit seems to be working so far except for one issue.
After
ACAL, and making sure the Auto Zero is ON, I short the input
leads
copper wire shunt across the inputs and the reading is
approximately
-000.0023 mVDC. That seems rather high. I would expect the
the input leads internally and force a zero reading during the
ACAL.
Anyone have any comments on this reading?
Thanks,
Randy
On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Richard Moore
Hi Randy -- sounds like your unit is in cal, based on your
measurements
of DCV and precision 10k resistor.
Using autocal all is recommended before doing precision
I do that if it's been more than a day or two since last use.
uses the internal Vref and an internal 10K resistor to do cal
else, so that tells you what the basic cal procedure is. I
back from Loveland, and that's what they did for me -- warmed
ran autocal, then measured everything against a Fluke 5700,
It has been 5 years since I replaced the display board (no
deal was available then AFAIK, so I don't know what's
NVRAM board, which was dead, with one with the Snap-cap RAM
those replacements, then sent it home for cal, which was
all the RAM was new. Now after 5 years, the unit passed all
performance tests and was sent back to me without a cal
kind. This tells me that an old, well-aged Vref module is a
10VDC test had changed by a bit under 5ppm, or roughly
They have a cal deal -- use code 1.090 -- press them for it
saved me 30% off the normal price. I think this deal lasts
mid-September, so my recent "cal" ended up at just under $400
shipping. I'm not sure the deal is available on new or
unit was in their data bank.
But this is a long way of saying I don't think you need to
cal -- just push Auto Cal and Enter and wait about 10 minutes
and follow the instructions there.
and follow the instructions there.
and follow the instructions there.
It faster to use alphabetical menu system. Also I forgot to mention that
if you want to recall a recent command just hit the grey button and then
the enter button ("Recall"). This can be done over and over to bring
back older commands.
Charlie
On 8/18/2014 1:46 PM, Randy Evans wrote:
> I finally found it after I realized I had to select the LONG MENU first.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Randy
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 7:27 AM, Charles Black <cblack@centurytel.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Hit the grey key in the "FUNCTION/RANGE" key block. Then hit "T" (light
>> grey marking) in the "MENU" key block Then hit down arrow twice in the
>> "FUNCTION/RANGE" key block. You will now have TEMP? on the display. Then
>> hit the "Enter" key in the "NUMERIC/USER" key block. Now you should see the
>> TEMP? value in degrees Celsius.
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>>
>> On 8/17/2014 8:48 PM, Randy Evans wrote:
>>
>>> Can someone explain to me how to read the internal temperature using the
>>> front panel TEMP? command. I have played around but I am doing something
>>> wrong.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>>
>>> Randy
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Randy Evans <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> That worked! Now it reads 000.00030mV. So far it looks good except for
>>>> the display.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Randy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637@att.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You need a comma "," between the "0" and the "3458". So blu C "CAL
>>>>> 0,3458" "Enter".
>>>>>
>>>>> See pg. # 64 of the CAL Manual for the syntax.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts@febo.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:25 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill,
>>>>>> You are very helpful and I really appreciate it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I entered BLUE-C-03458 and I still get the ERR message (106, "OUT OF
>>>>>>
>>>>> RANGE
>>>>>
>>>>>> -- CAL secured"). That would be consistent with what you are saying.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> guess its no reason to panic yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not sure how to use the SECURE command. I guess it's time to open
>>>>>>
>>>>> it
>>>>>
>>>>>> up but I will probably have to get some PosiDrive screwdrivers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Randy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637@att.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Randy:
>>>>>>> You are doing a ZERO calibration on the meter rather than a ACAL.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> You
>>>>>> have to give it a password after the "0" and then it will do the ZERO
>>>>>>> calibration. Usually the password is "3458" and comes from the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> factory
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> way. But someone could have changed it in the past. You can do this
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> the front panel menu using the SECURE command. But there is a jumper
>>>>>>> inside
>>>>>>> the 3458A which disables the request for a password so that you can do
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> any
>>>>>> CAL or reset the password to what you want. So everything is working
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> expected. The jumper is JM600 on the outguard processor board 66505
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> 66515 on the left of the meter inside. Try "3458" first as most are
>>>>>> set
>>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>>> this password. Read the Calibration Manual pg. #8 for how to get
>>>>>> inside
>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>>> the meter. You will need two sizes of a PosiDrive type screwdrivers
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> accomplish this. Again in the Cal Manual.
>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts@febo.com>
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:22 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bill,
>>>>>>>> I installed the U-short and executed the BLUE-C-0 front panel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> command
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> get an ERR on the display. I assume this is not good. Did I do
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>> correctly?
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Randy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637@att.net>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Randy:
>>>>>>>>> Look at page #23 of the 3458A Calibration Manual. Make
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> yourself
>>>>> a
>>>>>
>>>>>> "4
>>>>>>>> Terminal Short" as shown and put it in as shown.
>>>>>>>>> Before I did an ACAL I had around -000.00025 mVDC. After
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ACAL I
>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>> read +000.00002 mVDC. I did the "CAL 0" myself so I would expect
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> meter should return to a low value, and it does. I do get a
>>>>>>>> variation
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> +/- 30 nVDC using 100 PLC and just observing the variations. As I
>>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>>> I have never seen a spec on the ZERO stability over temperature.
>>>>>>>>> If I turn on the MATH function and then do 40 measurements
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>> 100
>>>>>
>>>>>> PLC
>>>>>>>> the statistics show:
>>>>>>>>> Low reading -70 nVDC
>>>>>>>>> Mean reading -28 nVDC
>>>>>>>>> High reading +3.5 nVDC
>>>>>>>>> Total Variation 73 nVDC
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So that correlates with my visual observation of 60 nVDC.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> After
>>>>> an
>>>>>
>>>>>> hour
>>>>>>>>> the room had gone up around 1 degree C. Then I observed
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -000.00023
>>>>>> mVDC.
>>>>>>>> After another ACAL the reading was again +000.00002 mVDC. This
>>>>>>>> particular
>>>>>>>> meter has a negative tempco as the room temp goes up.
>>>>>>>>> Obviously do an ACAL before any precision measurements
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> requiring
>>>>>> low
>>>>>>>> nanovolts.
>>>>>>>>> Go to the Keysight website and go to "Technical Support" and
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> choose
>>>>>> "Parts". Then enter in the "Part Number" "03458-66517" which is
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>> replacement "03458-66507" assembly and you will see the
>>>>>>>> replacement
>>>>>> part
>>>>>>>> number on the right hand side. Click on that and you will get the
>>>>>>>>> information about the exchange program and so on. Looks like you
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>> order this part online and pay for it with a credit card, but you
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> create or use an existing login account.
>>>>>>>>> I needed a new display a few years ago. At that time you
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>> order
>>>>>>>> just the display for around $80. Being extremely good at removing
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>> inserting and soldering I ordered the part. The problem was that
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>> spacing from top to bottom of the pins had changed. It went from
>>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>>> 1.3
>>>>>>>>> inches to around 1.5 inches. So I had to bend the pins to fit my
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> display
>>>>>>>> board and then get something like 72 pins into the holes on the PC
>>>>>>>> Board.
>>>>>>>> It took hours. This change is probably why HP/Agilent/Keysight
>>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>> let
>>>>>>>> you just get the display anymore but wants you to get the whole PC
>>>>>>>> Board
>>>>>>>> assembly. It did work just fine once installed.
>>>>>>>>> Hope this helps your decision to keep or not.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> volt-nuts@febo.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:36 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Interesting note. After the room cooled down from about 79F to
>>>>>>>>> 73F,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> another ACAL, the meter now reads +000.00035 mVDC, a more
>>>>>>>>> reasonable
>>>>>> value,
>>>>>>>>>> although it does bounce around a couple of tenths of a uV.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe that is OK? If so, then the only issue would seem to be
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>> display
>>>>>>>>>> has some faint pixels, which a new display should fix.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Randy
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Randy Evans
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <randyevans2688@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> The unit seems to be working so far except for one issue.
>>>>>>>>>> After
>>>>>> doing
>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>> ACAL, and making sure the Auto Zero is ON, I short the input
>>>>>>>>>> leads
>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> copper wire shunt across the inputs and the reading is
>>>>>>>>>> approximately
>>>>>>>> -000.0023 mVDC. That seems rather high. I would expect the
>>>>>>>>>> unit
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> short
>>>>>>>>>> the input leads internally and force a zero reading during the
>>>>>>>>>> ACAL.
>>>>>>>> Anyone have any comments on this reading?
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Randy
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Richard Moore
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <richiem5683@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Randy -- sounds like your unit is in cal, based on your
>>>>>>>>>>> measurements
>>>>>>>>>> of DCV and precision 10k resistor.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Using autocal all is recommended before doing precision
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> measurements,
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> I do that if it's been more than a day or two since last use.
>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>> autocal
>>>>>>>>>> uses the internal Vref and an internal 10K resistor to do cal
>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>>>>> else, so that tells you what the basic cal procedure is. I
>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>> got
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3458
>>>>>>>>>> back from Loveland, and that's what they did for me -- warmed
>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>> up,
>>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>>>> ran autocal, then measured everything against a Fluke 5700,
>>>>>>>>>>> aided
>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>> HP
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 3325, and another 3458.
>>>>>>>>>>>> It has been 5 years since I replaced the display board (no
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "exchange"
>>>>>>>> deal was available then AFAIK, so I don't know what's
>>>>>>>>>>> changed)
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> NVRAM board, which was dead, with one with the Snap-cap RAM
>>>>>>>>>>> chips.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>>>> those replacements, then sent it home for cal, which was
>>>>>>>>>>> complete,
>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>>> all the RAM was new. Now after 5 years, the unit passed all
>>>>>>>>>>> incoming
>>>>>>>> performance tests and was sent back to me without a cal
>>>>>>>>>>> process
>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>> kind. This tells me that an old, well-aged Vref module is a
>>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>> thing.
>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 10VDC test had changed by a bit under 5ppm, or roughly
>>>>>>>>>>> 1ppm/year.
>>>>>> They have a cal deal -- use code 1.090 -- press them for it
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> saved me 30% off the normal price. I think this deal lasts
>>>>>>>>>>> until
>>>>>> mid-September, so my recent "cal" ended up at just under $400
>>>>>>>>>>> including
>>>>>>>>>> shipping. I'm not sure the deal is available on new or
>>>>>>>>>>> first-time
>>>>>> cals;
>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> unit was in their data bank.
>>>>>>>>>>>> But this is a long way of saying I don't think you need to
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> send
>>>>> it
>>>>>
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> cal -- just push Auto Cal and Enter and wait about 10 minutes
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> should be good to go.
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
>>>>>>>>>>>> mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>>>>>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>>>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>>>>>
>>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
>>> mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
>> mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
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>
