Dave & Nancy wrote: I don't think that the CE rules are being applied in the Caribbean EU territories. You can purchase new non-complient engines in St Martin/Martinique and other places. You also can sell boats that were built after the CE requirements without CE certification. This happens every day! Well I believe many people in the french carribean would love to see that coming true and especially all my customers who have to fly me over to have their boat CE certified as the local authorities are refusing to register their boat without CE certificate. Maybe US citizens can buy non-CE approved boats when they export them (altough that is also illegal when the transaction take place in Europe). Unfortunately this is quite often the case, when we refuse to certify boats for CE customers because of non-compliance with some requirements, they are just exported to the US where the requirements are not so stringent. What concerns the Euro statement: the currency has nothing to do with the EEC, if that was the case then the UK would be using Euros instead of pounds. Peter Jacops European Certification Bureau Melkhoutsingel 29 7806 Houtbay South Africa www.marinesurvey.co.za info@marinesurvey.co.za skype: ecbzuidafrika tel: 021 790 5905 ----- Original Message ----- From: <passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com> To: <passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 6:00 AM Subject: Passagemaking-Under-Power Digest, Vol 24, Issue 10 > Send Passagemaking-Under-Power mailing list submissions to > passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > passagemaking-under-power-owner@lists.samurai.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Passagemaking-Under-Power digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Non EPA compliance diesels (Peter Jacops) > 2. Re: Non EPA compliance diesels (Dave Cooper) > 3. Re: Customs and laws..was Non EPA compliance diesels (Dave Cooper) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 09:08:11 +0100 > From: "Peter Jacops" <info@marinesurvey.co.za> > Subject: [PUP] Non EPA compliance diesels > To: <passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com> > Message-ID: <02b101c70c7b$0666f570$0200a8c0@ECBSA> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Just some clarification from a European point of view. Since January 2006 > the amended European Recreational Craft Directive 2003/44/EC became > applicable this means that all craft PLACED on the European market > (including its 70 overseas territories, such as many Carribean islands) > need > to comply with this amended directive. The amendemend also include > requirements on noise and emission. You are still allowed to VISIT > European > countries but if you want to sell your boat in a European Country you will > have to comply with the directive. The noise requirements are normally not > applicable to displacements boats. The International ISO standard > applicable > to emission are very similar to the American requirements and in most > cases > the American exhaust emission will be accepted. Do not hesitate to contact > me for more clarification on European requirements. > > > Peter Jacops > European Certification Bureau > Melkhoutsingel 29 > 7806 Houtbay > South Africa > www.marinesurvey.co.za > info@marinesurvey.co.za > skype: ecbzuidafrika > > tel: 021 790 5905 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com> > To: <passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com> > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 6:00 AM > Subject: Passagemaking-Under-Power Digest, Vol 24, Issue 9 > > >> Send Passagemaking-Under-Power mailing list submissions to >> passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> passagemaking-under-power-owner@lists.samurai.com >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Passagemaking-Under-Power digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Non EPA compliance diesels (Dave Cooper) >> 2. Re: Non EPA compliance diesels (Robert Phillips) >> 3. Re: Non EPA compliance diesels (Al Thomason) >> 4. Re: Non EPA compliance diesels (John Harris) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 07:35:16 -0400 >> From: "Dave Cooper" <swansong@gmn-usa.com> >> Subject: Re: [PUP] Non EPA compliance diesels >> To: <passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com> >> Message-ID: <003301c70bce$c8f49870$7d01a8c0@Dell> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> <Bob wrote: ....Our last several entries into Pensacola was a cell phone >> call in on arrival and "come to the office in a few days" type of entry> >> >> >> >> Ah yes Bob, but the times are changing. Our last entry into the US, in St >> John, USVI, requires all persons on board to come to the >> Customs/Immigration >> dock at the same time. In other words you must anchor somewhere and come >> in >> by dinghy as there's no space for a big private boat to dock. They then >> may >> or may not ask you to bring the boat to the dock for further inspection >> or >> send a guy. >> >> >> >> Not to long ago a crew list and the captain was all that was required. >> Before that just the phone call. And before that basically nothing. So I >> see >> a pattern of escalation here as to what the US Customs/Immigration want >> to >> check for. >> >> >> >> In St Martin there was no check-in/out till a few years ago. Now they >> need >> an incoming Zarpe, a ton of questions and are also randomly checking the >> boats entering in person. >> >> >> >> I'm not trying to alarm anyone but I do see that various countries are >> changing clearance procedures to include searches and checks for many >> things >> that were un-heard of 3 or 4 years ago. For the US or the EU to add >> emissions to the list isn't far off, IMO. >> >> >> >> BTW, the fees for clearing in/out have also dramatically jumped..gee >> another >> source of revenue ;-). The cost of running the Caribbean Island >> jurisdictions (about 15 entities) from Venezuela to the USVI was in the >> order of $100.00 total back in the early 80's and took no more than a few >> moments of your time. Now it runs $1500 and can be as much as 2000 if you >> catch the wrong person on duty. Today you'd better figure a weeks worth >> of >> time just for clearing procedures! >> >> >> >> As always, YMMV >> >> >> >> Dave & Nancy >> >> Swan Song >> >> Roughwater 58 >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 10:00:56 -0400 >> From: Robert Phillips <bob@doylecaribbean.com> >> Subject: Re: [PUP] Non EPA compliance diesels >> To: passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com >> Message-ID: <0df3e0621578fc09de88f426a1950d9a@doylecaribbean.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed >> >> What is absurd is that you can clear into Puerto Rico and you are >> cleared for the rest of the US, so long as you don't stop in a foreign >> country in between. On my last trip from Lauderdale to Tortola I went >> non-stop down the Old Bahama Channel to San Juan, called Customs and >> was asked why I was calling if I didn't stop anywhere; I guess I must >> sound like an honest person. So Dave, when you want to take that >> smokey old Detroit into the US, try clearing in Ponce. >> >> Bob Phillips, >> Another Asylum, Tortola, BVI >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 06:36:58 -0800 >> From: "Al Thomason" <athomas@sns-access.com> >> Subject: Re: [PUP] Non EPA compliance diesels >> To: "Passagemaking Under Power List" >> <passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com> >> Message-ID: <03b101c70be8$2ded19a0$6424a8c0@ibmsld0wgptumu> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >>> It's very easy for customs to check. Walk into the ER and look for the >>> tag...No tag no entry. >> >> Humm... I can not find any such an EPA tag on my Cummins 6B, wonder how >> that in an extreme would be dealt with. Perhaps had best not leave the >> USA >> if I wanted to come back??? :-) >> >> -al- >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 15:08:42 -0000 >> From: "John Harris" <JohnPH@Comcast.net> >> Subject: Re: [PUP] Non EPA compliance diesels >> To: "Passagemaking Under Power List" >> <passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com> >> Message-ID: <001601c70bec$9f7dfd10$3501c80a@JPHDell> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> This topic has started with the assumption that if there is a rule it >> will >> be enforced, I would suggest that only a little over have of the rules, >> regulations, and laws that we have in the United States are enforced. >> >> If someone would like to start a list of non-enforced rules - just for >> boating - I would be happy to add a few. >> >> John Harris >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Passagemaking-Under-Power Mailing List >> >> End of Passagemaking-Under-Power Digest, Vol 24, Issue 9 >> ******************************************************** > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 06:40:38 -0400 > From: "Dave Cooper" <swansong@gmn-usa.com> > Subject: Re: [PUP] Non EPA compliance diesels > To: "'Passagemaking Under Power List'" > <passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com> > Message-ID: <001f01c70c90$5170f650$7d01a8c0@Dell> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Peter wrote: ......all craft PLACED on the European market (including its > 70 > overseas territories, such as many Caribbean islands) need to comply with > this amended directive. ....... You are still allowed to VISIT European > countries but if you want to sell your boat in a European Country you will > have to comply with the directive.> > > I don't want to step on the EU directives but I don't think that the CE > rules are being applied in the Caribbean EU territories. You can purchase > new non-complient engines in St Martin/Martinique and other places. You > also > can sell boats that were built after the CE requirements without CE > certification. This happens every day! So the laws of the EU with regard > to > boating requirements are again being applied in a very spotty manner, > IMHO. > > Which means that you can get caught up and fined in a sudden enforcement > of > some rule/law you know nothing about. > > Take currency...even tho all EU countries should be on the EURO some > Caribbean EU territories still keep the local currency!! > > Oh well. > > Dave & Nancy > Swan Song > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 06:40:38 -0400 > From: "Dave Cooper" <swansong@gmn-usa.com> > Subject: Re: [PUP] Customs and laws..was Non EPA compliance diesels > To: "'Passagemaking Under Power List'" > <passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com> > Message-ID: <002001c70c90$51bbbaf0$7d01a8c0@Dell> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > <John wrote: If someone would like to start a list of non-enforced rules - > just for boating - I would be happy to add a few.> > > I think John's statement makes my point. When you have so many boating > laws > on the books you'll find them enforced differently in different places. As > Bob Phillips pointed out, Puerto Rico didn't want to even see him. That > doesn't mean that some other US Port Customs/Immigration folks take the > same > view. Spotty and haphazard enforcement can lead to complacency. > > A good example of this is the French islands of Guadeloupe/Martinique. > Recently they started fining boaters who arrived to check in with state > registered vessels. I.e. boats registered in a state not USCG documented. > Until then folks have been checking in/out with USVI and other "state" > registered vessels. This has always been illegal but woops just now > enforced. Most other Caribbean jurisdictions accept state registrations. > > So I suggest that as more laws hit the books that we are supposed to abide > by more zealous officials will find that there's money to be made if you > "fine rich boaters" who violate little known or seldom enforced laws. > Realize that most of the fine will go into their pockets not the > government > coiffures. > > Emissions and many other local rules/laws fit this category. Trying to > keep > up with them is not easy but needs to become an integral part of passage > planning. What special rules/laws must I meet to visit this country/port. > What will I need if required to divert to another port for help/repairs. > > One only needs to run the gamut of a few banana republic entry procedures > to > realize that it can turn into a nightmare with the wrong duty officers or > be > a piece of cake. Again local interpretation of laws prevails. > > YMMV > > > Dave > Swan Song > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Passagemaking-Under-Power Mailing List > > End of Passagemaking-Under-Power Digest, Vol 24, Issue 10 > *********************************************************