Clearing Customs US
check this out:
http://www.boost-energy.com/ampair/products_product5.asp
Ron
--- On Wed, 8/5/09, KevinR kfredden@verizon.net wrote:
From: KevinR kfredden@verizon.net
Subject: Re: T&T: Energy cost article by Nigel Calder
To: 2elnav@netbistro.com
Cc: "Trawlers & Trawlering List" trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 7:31 PM
-----Original Message-----
... You would have to use a bigger anchor. <VBG> but not anythign bigger
than
what many trawler owners are already using.
When I anchor for the night, I want to set my hook as firmly as possible,
and prevent any drag that would work against the anchor. The last thing I
would ever consider was hanging a drag device over the side that was going
to put a several kilowatt additional pull on the anchor rode.
Nigel sure had a screwy idea with that one - but then again, he is just a
writer pushing out as many words as he can to make money!
Kevin
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----- Original Message -----
From: "KevinR"
When I anchor for the night, I want to set my hook as firmly as possible,
and prevent any drag that would work against the anchor. The last thing I
would ever consider was hanging a drag device over the side that was going
to put a several kilowatt additional pull on the anchor rode.
Nigel sure had a screwy idea with that one - but then again, he is just a
writer pushing out as many words as he can to make money!
Kevin
REPLY
Kevin you missed the whole point. Who said the anchor had to be the same
one that was securing the boat?
Someone complained about having to handle a water turbine of 24"
diameter. I merely mentioned that an anchor to secure the whole assembly
need not be any bigger than what is normally carried by a cruiser and the
water turbine would only be about as big as one of those Air wind
generators.
I had said that serious proposals had been made for megawatt generators
powered by the gulf stream. These would be big enough to power entire
cities. However the environmentalist killed the idea because they were
concerned whales would bump into it. This on the other hand would be small
and manageable.
Arild
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob McLeran"
Is there some reason why more trawler-type boats don't use wind
generators? That source seems like a natural to me, and many sail boats
use them, but one hardly ever sees them on trawlers.
REPLY
Two reasons are most likely the reason. Power boats tend to use a lot
more power than sailboats.
With engines running its there in any case. Power boaters do not seem to
mind the engine noise in the same way sailboaters do.
Wind generators such as you see in sailboats do not deliver enough power to
run air conditioning full time. For some reason power boaters seem to
demand air conditioning whereas sailboat people somehow manage to get
along without it most of the time.
Maybe its a case of those who insist on air conditionign simply gravitate
to power boats as a matter of necessity. Those who can do without often
stay with sail because it is more environmentally friendly by not burinig
so much fossil fuel.
Arild
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Dreher
check this out: http://www.boost-energy.com/ampair/products_product5.asp
REPLY
Yep that is one of the products I was thinking of. There are more.
Arild
check this out:
http://www.boost-energy.com/ampair/products_product5.asp
Great reference that answers my original questions. Although I didn't spot
the physical dimensions, it looks like the unit is about a foot in diameter.
Its wattage output is just about linear to the water current flow. EG for a
2kt current it generates 2 amps for a 12 volt system; in an 8 kt current,
its upper limit, it generates 8 amps at 12 volts.
Converting this wattage, 2 knots yields 24 watts (one small lamp) 8 knots
yields 96 watts (2 moderate lamps).
Or, one day and night at anchor in a 2 kt current will reload a 12v battery
with only 48 amp-hours. What's an 8D battery capacity? 480 Ah? You'd need 5
days to reload a half drained 8D?
-- Jim Ague
Good point
As a reference, my two solar panels generate 12 amps at 12 v durng a sunny day
Greg and Susan Han
Allegria -- Krogen Whaleback #16
On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 4:19 AM, Jim Agueague@usa.net wrote:
check this out:
http://www.boost-energy.com/ampair/products_product5.asp
Great reference that answers my original questions. Although I didn't spot
the physical dimensions, it looks like the unit is about a foot in diameter.
Its wattage output is just about linear to the water current flow. EG for a
2kt current it generates 2 amps for a 12 volt system; in an 8 kt current,
its upper limit, it generates 8 amps at 12 volts.
My perception of the chart for power generated looks like perhaps 1/2 amp at 2 knots, or slightly more. Add to this that we have found Ampair one of the least power producing products as far as their wind generators, I would assume their projections might be on the optimistic side. This would typically be the current velocity for most anchorages we encounter and for whatever this unit costs, would really not be practical for most boaters/cruisers. Chuck
To follow our adventures, go to
http://trawler-beach-house.blogspot.com/
http://sea-trek.blogspot.com/
--- On Thu, 8/6/09, Jim Ague ague@usa.net wrote:
check this out:
http://www.boost-energy.com/ampair/products_product5.asp
Great reference that answers my original questions.
Although I didn't spot the physical dimensions, it looks
like the unit is about a foot in diameter. Its wattage
output is just about linear to the water current flow. EG
for a 2kt current it generates 2 amps for a 12 volt system;
in an 8 kt current, its upper limit, it generates 8 amps at
12 volts.
Converting this wattage, 2 knots yields 24 watts (one small
lamp) 8 knots yields 96 watts (2 moderate lamps).
Or, one day and night at anchor in a 2 kt current will
reload a 12v battery with only 48 amp-hours. What's an 8D
battery capacity? 480 Ah? You'd need 5 days to reload a half
drained 8D?
-- Jim Ague
From: Ron Dreher [mailto:ron_dreher@yahoo.com]
check this out:
http://www.boost-energy.com/ampair/products_product5.asp
Wow - at anything less than 1.8 knots, there is no power output at all from
that thing, but at a two knot current, we get a whole whopping 0.7 amps (700
milliamps or 8 watts!). The current has to get above 4 knots before the
thing even gets to 4 amps (a measly 48 watts) - and I don't want to anchor
in a four knot current!
That thing looks like it is only useful for a house near a fast flowing
stream where you can tap into some real water flow, and even then you get
less than 100 watts out of it! Not a real good use of money unless you have
absolutely no other power source, and certainly not a useful system on a
trawler.
Cheers,
Kevin
Arild, That is an unusual situation, what I would consider not the norm. In
order for any unit to be successful for a given market it would need to work
well in what would be considered the average conditions encountered by the
widest range of targeted buyers. Your particular situation would probably not
fall into that category, but for the area you describe it certainly would be a
"green" solution for other than boating applications. This type of
application, as I am sure you already know, exists now. Chuck
To follow our
adventures, go to
http://trawler-beach-house.blogspot.com/
http://sea-trek.blogspot.com/
--- On Wed, 8/5/09, 2elnav@netbistro.com
2elnav@netbistro.com wrote:
REPLY
Quite true Chuck. However some
people also dock
in rivers where the current is constant.
Ther is a
bridge in the nearest town wher th 4ebow
wave at low flow times is stil
one foot high. Based on
where the wave rises again I estimate the river
current
at 4 knots. About 7- 10 knots durin g spring
freshet. There are
three bridges. If every bridge pier
support had a big turbine built into
the pier
base the town could power itself.
Arild
----- Original Message -----
My perception of the chart for power generated looks like perhaps 1/2 amp
at 2 knots, or slightly more. Add to this that we have found Ampair one of
the least power producing products as far as their wind generators, I
would assume their projections might be on the optimistic side. This would
typically be the current velocity for most anchorages we encounter and for
whatever this unit costs, would really not be practical for most
boaters/cruisers. Chuck
REPLY
Chuck look a bit beyond the edge of the box. Its the concept, not
necessarily the specific product or model that is significant.
For starters, that specific model was intended to be towed by a moving
sailboat. Drag is significant and counter productive. Therefore the unit
is NOT going to produce maximum power and drag.
A purpose built generator designed to be tethered by an anchor in a
tidal stream would have a larger propeller pitched to extract maximum
energy from a 2 knot current. Moer than likely such a propeller will
develop lots of troque but slow RPM. A speed up ratio gearbox is likely
called for.
The point is products are already out there. We only need to improve on
the technology. Henry Ford's first car wasn't to great either. But the
concept has endured and we now have cars that do work. Same with boats and
engines. The very first engines were low power, noisy and more of a hit
and miss proposition than the reliable diesel engines we now take for
granted. The first photocells were terrible. Today they are pretty good,
even if still a bit expensive.
Arild