passagemaking@lists.trawlering.com

Passagemaking Under Power List

View all threads

Abandoned ships that don't sink

PP
Peter Pisciotta
Mon, Mar 5, 2007 10:10 PM

I was listening to a Podcast replay of Discovery
Channel's "The Most Dangerous Catch" the other day.
They related the story of a 1981 disaster where the
F/V St Patrick, a 150-foot scallop boat, was caught in
a storm near Kodiak Alaska. Pounded by a couple huge
waves, the boat started to list up to 90-degrees. The
crew of 11 abandoned ship, but the liferaft had been
stripped away. Still, they donned survival suits,
lashed themselves together, and jumped into the frothy
waters. There weren't enough survival suits to go
around - some died within minutes, others the first
night. Eventually, their tethers parted and they were
separated in the storm and the long Alaskan night.

One of the 2 survivors was interviewed - he washed-up
on a small island near Kodiak 36-hours later. He was
astonished to learn the boat didn't sink afterall. It
was towed into harbor the next day, however sunk prior
to reaching dock. I'm sure the locals tell all
greenhorns "there, 50-feet beneath the surface, lies
the St Patrick, the last dry perch for 9 of 11 good
souls."

Its sobering to think these guys - some without
survival suits - decided to leave a boat and take
their chances in a 30-degree washing machine. I'm sure
some of the crew had more sea-time and rugged water
experience by age 8 than anyone on this list
accumulates in a lifetime.

Yet they jumped off a boat (a really big boat!) that
didn't sink.

Peter
www.SeaSkills.com

I was listening to a Podcast replay of Discovery Channel's "The Most Dangerous Catch" the other day. They related the story of a 1981 disaster where the F/V St Patrick, a 150-foot scallop boat, was caught in a storm near Kodiak Alaska. Pounded by a couple huge waves, the boat started to list up to 90-degrees. The crew of 11 abandoned ship, but the liferaft had been stripped away. Still, they donned survival suits, lashed themselves together, and jumped into the frothy waters. There weren't enough survival suits to go around - some died within minutes, others the first night. Eventually, their tethers parted and they were separated in the storm and the long Alaskan night. One of the 2 survivors was interviewed - he washed-up on a small island near Kodiak 36-hours later. He was astonished to learn the boat didn't sink afterall. It was towed into harbor the next day, however sunk prior to reaching dock. I'm sure the locals tell all greenhorns "there, 50-feet beneath the surface, lies the St Patrick, the last dry perch for 9 of 11 good souls." Its sobering to think these guys - some without survival suits - decided to leave a boat and take their chances in a 30-degree washing machine. I'm sure some of the crew had more sea-time and rugged water experience by age 8 than anyone on this list accumulates in a lifetime. Yet they jumped off a boat (a really big boat!) that didn't sink. Peter www.SeaSkills.com
JH
John Harris
Mon, Mar 5, 2007 10:33 PM

The story that Peter relates about leaving a floating ship reminds me that
"experience" and "smart"  don't necessarily go together.

John Harris

The story that Peter relates about leaving a floating ship reminds me that "experience" and "smart" don't necessarily go together. John Harris
MM
Mike Maurice
Mon, Mar 5, 2007 10:45 PM

I am pretty familiar with this story. It is a mistake to assume that the
crew were all that experienced. Certainly not about when to abandon
ship. As I recall, part of the problem was that there was a real lack of
experience. There is a detailed report of this accident, but I am not
sure just where to find a copy. This and several other accidents of a
similar nature resulted in new fishing vessel regulations, since
implemented, including training of captains and crews.

Mike

I am pretty familiar with this story. It is a mistake to assume that the crew were all that experienced. Certainly not about when to abandon ship. As I recall, part of the problem was that there was a real lack of experience. There is a detailed report of this accident, but I am not sure just where to find a copy. This and several other accidents of a similar nature resulted in new fishing vessel regulations, since implemented, including training of captains and crews. Mike
PP
Peter Pisciotta
Mon, Mar 5, 2007 11:15 PM

I am pretty familiar with this story. It is a
mistake to assume that the crew were all that
experienced. Certainly not about when to abandon
ship.

The survivor interviewed was a greenhorn - first trip.
The cook was also on a maiden voyage (she died the
second night). The experience of the others was not
told, but I'd imagine there was a mix and at least a
few of the mates were seasoned - yet they all got off
the boat.

My point in relating stories like this is to provoke
thought. I suspect a lot of folks spend a lot of time
thinking through what-if scenarios. There are lots of
stories about racing sailboats that were abandoned and
later found floating. I think its tempting to say
"hurumph - always step UP into a liferaft!!!" And
dismiss what happened as inexperience, stupidity, or
some other flaw that can somehow be avoided by prior
thinking.

But this was not a racing sailboat, and it wasn't
crewed with part-time sailors or arm chair sailors. It
was a 150-foot fishing boat. Perhaps a comparison to
sailboats can be dismissed (I'd caution against that),
but this certainly raises the bar of comparison.
Something happens out there that offsets what seems
like good common sense from this distance, filtered by
20/20 hindsight. Adlard Coles writes about the stages
of mental transition as boats encounter storms. Time
after time, people step off boats and take their
chances with the sea. There's nothing remotely
rational about that, yet there are dozens of
documented examples of doing just that.

Personally, I know what I'd do given what I know now -
the same thing those 11 people would do knowing the
boat never sank. But still, the torment of being in a
storm - a survival level storm - corrupts proper
thinking. And I'm not sure what to do about that -
except avoid survival conditions. And for the most
part, that's not too difficult.

Peter
www.SeaSkills.com

=======================
Peter Pisciotta
415-902-8439

> I am pretty familiar with this story. It is a > mistake to assume that the crew were all that > experienced. Certainly not about when to abandon > ship. The survivor interviewed was a greenhorn - first trip. The cook was also on a maiden voyage (she died the second night). The experience of the others was not told, but I'd imagine there was a mix and at least a few of the mates were seasoned - yet they all got off the boat. My point in relating stories like this is to provoke thought. I suspect a lot of folks spend a lot of time thinking through what-if scenarios. There are lots of stories about racing sailboats that were abandoned and later found floating. I think its tempting to say "hurumph - always step UP into a liferaft!!!" And dismiss what happened as inexperience, stupidity, or some other flaw that can somehow be avoided by prior thinking. But this was not a racing sailboat, and it wasn't crewed with part-time sailors or arm chair sailors. It was a 150-foot fishing boat. Perhaps a comparison to sailboats can be dismissed (I'd caution against that), but this certainly raises the bar of comparison. Something happens out there that offsets what seems like good common sense from this distance, filtered by 20/20 hindsight. Adlard Coles writes about the stages of mental transition as boats encounter storms. Time after time, people step off boats and take their chances with the sea. There's nothing remotely rational about that, yet there are dozens of documented examples of doing just that. Personally, I know what I'd do given what I know now - the same thing those 11 people would do knowing the boat never sank. But still, the torment of being in a storm - a survival level storm - corrupts proper thinking. And I'm not sure what to do about that - except avoid survival conditions. And for the most part, that's not too difficult. Peter www.SeaSkills.com ======================= Peter Pisciotta 415-902-8439
MM
Mike Maurice
Mon, Mar 5, 2007 11:26 PM

Near as I can tell, the major reason for abandoning boats is the state
of shambles of the inside of the boat. One of the reasons why the Barnes
fellow recently abandoned his boat was that the interior was a shambles.
Of course in his case, the leg injury he had  pretty well spelled the
end of his adventure.

But, I suspect he got his injury from something that got loose. And
there we are back to the loose gear problem. I brought a Cape Horn
Trawler around from Nova Scotia and I did not think the interior would
stay in place if the boat got rolled down 90 degrees on it's side. Maybe
once, but certainly not if repeated. The shelving and closets had lots
of heavy gear in them and were made out of soft wood, screwed, not
bolted in place, as I recall.

In the Kodiak boat's case, which has been discussed before on the forum,
as I recall. The folks were so spooked that the boat would roll over and
take them down that they jumped off anyway. Most would have survived if
they had just stayed with the boat.

Mike


Capt. Mike Maurice
Beaverton Oregon(Near Portland)

Near as I can tell, the major reason for abandoning boats is the state of shambles of the inside of the boat. One of the reasons why the Barnes fellow recently abandoned his boat was that the interior was a shambles. Of course in his case, the leg injury he had pretty well spelled the end of his adventure. But, I suspect he got his injury from something that got loose. And there we are back to the loose gear problem. I brought a Cape Horn Trawler around from Nova Scotia and I did not think the interior would stay in place if the boat got rolled down 90 degrees on it's side. Maybe once, but certainly not if repeated. The shelving and closets had lots of heavy gear in them and were made out of soft wood, screwed, not bolted in place, as I recall. In the Kodiak boat's case, which has been discussed before on the forum, as I recall. The folks were so spooked that the boat would roll over and take them down that they jumped off anyway. Most would have survived if they had just stayed with the boat. Mike _____________________________________ Capt. Mike Maurice Beaverton Oregon(Near Portland)