The entire topic of selecting a passagemaker is incredibly
interesting simply because there are so many options and so many
compromises.

I have just a few comments on the issue of future designs.

RESALE VALUE
I think Rod has a very interesting point that Scott backs up
succinctly given his cruising plans. He has to have a boat that he
can resell when the adventure is over and I assume a lot of people
are in his position. I am just the opposite. We've had the family 68'
Defever design since 1971 and made our first transpacific journey
beginning in 1972. Thirty four years later we're about to replace the
boat with another one that I hope will last another 35 years and that
my kids will cruise extensively. I can't recall one time in my life
where I ever made a buying decision based on resale value - but that
probably makes me an anomaly.

THE NEED FOR SPEED
Construction technology, design efficiency and contemporary diesels
have brought us to a crossroads where higher speed passagemakers are
a reality. The C&W Explorer is a good example as are some catamaran
designs. I have not made a long ocean crossing in a power cat but I
have done some coastwise cruising in a design that touted 2500nm
range at 25 knots. While those claims can be taken with a grain of
salt I can say that I was immensely impressed with that particular
vessel's sea-handling characteristics in moderate seas. I personally
found the motion far more appealing than that of sailing cats where
broad, beam and close hauled reaches cause real stiffness and high
acceleration in roll.

SPEED VS. COST
In my research for the Passagemaking book I am writing I have found
that the displacement - cost relationship holds true when you are
talking about the same materials and levels of sophistication, but
not otherwise. As an example, my 85' passagemaker design from steel
with an aluminium superstructure is budgeted at $1.2 million. Steve
Dashew's FPD design is very similar in size and performance but goes
for $3.5 million out of aluminium, built in New Zealand and with some
sophisticated systems.

One off vessels in composite or FRP where weight minimization is a
factor (e.g. high speed) tend to be the most expensive if done
commercially. In a previous post I talk about the per lb prices
inherent in various countries of construction

SAFETY, RELIABILITY & EFFICIENCY
A long slender steel hull pushed by a Gardner diesel at a V/L of 1.1
is pretty tough to beat in terms of safety, reliability and
efficiency.  While I am attracted to the notion of higher speeds I
still wonder about the results of a composite or aluminium hulled
high speed cat or tri tangling with a container late one night when
the kids are asleep in the hull staterooms. But perhaps with a tunnel
hull design, protected prop, etc., you would just ride up and over
the obstruction with little damage?

And then there is the added cost of high speed running in fuel and
equipment maintenance. Given the high cost of diesel in some foreign
countries the flexibility to refuel where diesel is less expensive
can be advantageous.

NOISE & VIBRATION
We are spending a lot of time and money to substantially mitigate the
noise and vibration in our vessel, simply because it really is
tedious on a prolonged basis. This too would be more difficult to do
on a high speed vessel.

FUTURE ALTERNATIVES
A friend of mine is the Chairman of Comex S.A. and he has built a
state-of-the-art SWATH vessel for cruising and exploration ( he
carries a very cool deep submersible on the back). While it was not
an inexpensive endeavor the lack of motion is absolutely remarkable.
If you have a wife that gets seasick and can't get her interested in
cruising, the SWATH is the ticket. I expect to see more interest in
these hulls over the next few years.

If cost is no object, I still think the personal luxury submarine is
the ultimate passagemaker. Cruise on the surface in a slender, very
efficient monohull and dive when it gets rough. We're now designing a
high speed patrol and surveillance sub with a rigid streamlined snort
mast so that the sub can run just submerged at high speed avoiding
most of the wavemaking resistance that plagues displacement hulls.
Add closed cycle diesel and you have a remarkable combination.

And if all this too slow or plebian, I sit on the Board of a company
that has an interesting alternative: http://avtechgroup.com

Bruce

---=====
L. Bruce Jones                 U.S. SUBMARINES, INC.
President POSEIDON UNDERSEA RESORTS LLC
Tel: 208/687-9057                      Fax: 208/441-7478
E-mail: bruce@ussubmarines.com          http://ussubs.com
http://poseidonresorts.com

"Design, engineering and construction of submarines and submersibles"
"Submarine related consulting, sales and operations."

---=====

You would know better, but I think that the $3.5 million (USD?) embraces
real R&D and computer time. They also redid some things after Steve Dashew
was dissatisfied or changed his view. Even their alternators are very
expensive. I don't know the cost factor, but the windows are way over
strength. If this is like his sailboats, this is the prototype of a series
which may permit them to recover most or all the cost over time. The
Dashew's are in the happy position of pursuing their avocation as a
business. You would think that building in New Zealand would be cheaper. The
Gardiner concept sounds too good to me. I looked up the SWATH vessel through
Google and saw the research vessel which looked like it stood on twin
submarines and not a traditional cat.
Ron Rogers

----- Original Message -----
From: "L. Bruce Jones" bruce@ussubmarines.com
|
| SPEED VS. COST
| In my research for the Passagemaking book I am writing I have found
| that the displacement - cost relationship holds true when you are
| talking about the same materials and levels of sophistication, but
| not otherwise. As an example, my 85' passagemaker design from steel
| with an aluminium superstructure is budgeted at $1.2 million. Steve
| Dashew's FPD design is very similar in size and performance but goes
| for $3.5 million out of aluminium, built in New Zealand and with some
| sophisticated systems.