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TWL: More night ops

M
mikem@yachtsdelivered.com
Tue, Feb 20, 2001 8:57 PM

Joe Engle makes the point that the low end chart plotting systems are not
reliable and I am inclined to agree with him. On the other hand, the high
end stuff is completely out of my reach and most likely many others.
Perhaps someone has the time to go into detail about the tradeoffs between
cost and performance/reliability of the various generalized chart plotting
solutions, laptops/desktop/dedicated/integrated radar+chartplotter.
I love the laptop chartplotting system, but as noted don't consider it
completely reliable.
So, here goes a short story. Bodega Bay Calif. is just north of San
Francisco. The jetties are about 150 yards apart and about 1/3 mile long,
they face East/West. The place is notorious for fog. It's a dark and
stormy, correction, foggy night. Visibility is 50 feet or less. The radar
has a 1/4 mile scale but not 1/8. The MB or Middle Bang as it is called on
the radar is so large that it stretches from one jetty tip to the other.
The laptop is working and the chart plotting is set to about 300 yards from
one side of the screen to the other. GPS SA is turned off so accuracy is
about 25 feet. And by the way, did I mention that the steering compass is
not working and to compound the problem, the tide is flooding, which makes
steering a nightmare, since there is very little water passing the rudders.
This is one of those stories that is almost enough to make your hair stand
on end.
It took us an hour to get inside the tips of the jetties. I adjusted the
radar at least a dozen times trying to get the best picture. And did
similar things to the laptop presentation. Still with 50' of visibility, it
does not pay to get in a hurry. I backed out against the current at least a
dozen times, because I could not be sure that we were lined up and
centered. And this begs the question as to what to do if we had an
electronic malfunction of the radar or chart plotter. Under these
conditions, a high order of precision is required. You can only gauge this
from experience; practice, practice. Fact is, I was also hoping for a brief
rise in the fog such that the visibility might climb to a 100 feet or more,
if only for a couple of minutes. Near land this often  happens if you don't
get in a hurry.  And once inside the fog did lift to about 200 feet of
visibility.
The chart plot tells you where you were a few seconds ago. It does not tell
you where you are now. It does not point where you are going, it just
estimates where you might be pointed. The lag is several seconds. The radar
shows where you where about 1/10 of a second ago. But the heading marker
can fall behind because the radar has to make a revolution to get oriented.
The compass has only a degree or 2 of lag and rarely lags enough to be a
problem. Remember ours was not working. No comment please. The channel at
this entrance is only about 125 feet wide. Even in good visibility you have
to stay alert.
The equipment is only a tool, it may fail, but you must not. No matter how
long it takes and no matter how many people are watching you make an idiot
out of yourself, don't proceed unless you are absolutely certain you have
it right. There are only 2 things everybody will remember about your
mistakes. There are the ones you corrected, no matter how many times it
took and the others...
Regards,

Capt. Mike Maurice

Joe Engle makes the point that the low end chart plotting systems are not reliable and I am inclined to agree with him. On the other hand, the high end stuff is completely out of my reach and most likely many others. Perhaps someone has the time to go into detail about the tradeoffs between cost and performance/reliability of the various generalized chart plotting solutions, laptops/desktop/dedicated/integrated radar+chartplotter. I love the laptop chartplotting system, but as noted don't consider it completely reliable. So, here goes a short story. Bodega Bay Calif. is just north of San Francisco. The jetties are about 150 yards apart and about 1/3 mile long, they face East/West. The place is notorious for fog. It's a dark and stormy, correction, foggy night. Visibility is 50 feet or less. The radar has a 1/4 mile scale but not 1/8. The MB or Middle Bang as it is called on the radar is so large that it stretches from one jetty tip to the other. The laptop is working and the chart plotting is set to about 300 yards from one side of the screen to the other. GPS SA is turned off so accuracy is about 25 feet. And by the way, did I mention that the steering compass is not working and to compound the problem, the tide is flooding, which makes steering a nightmare, since there is very little water passing the rudders. This is one of those stories that is almost enough to make your hair stand on end. It took us an hour to get inside the tips of the jetties. I adjusted the radar at least a dozen times trying to get the best picture. And did similar things to the laptop presentation. Still with 50' of visibility, it does not pay to get in a hurry. I backed out against the current at least a dozen times, because I could not be sure that we were lined up and centered. And this begs the question as to what to do if we had an electronic malfunction of the radar or chart plotter. Under these conditions, a high order of precision is required. You can only gauge this from experience; practice, practice. Fact is, I was also hoping for a brief rise in the fog such that the visibility might climb to a 100 feet or more, if only for a couple of minutes. Near land this often happens if you don't get in a hurry. And once inside the fog did lift to about 200 feet of visibility. The chart plot tells you where you were a few seconds ago. It does not tell you where you are now. It does not point where you are going, it just estimates where you might be pointed. The lag is several seconds. The radar shows where you where about 1/10 of a second ago. But the heading marker can fall behind because the radar has to make a revolution to get oriented. The compass has only a degree or 2 of lag and rarely lags enough to be a problem. Remember ours was not working. No comment please. The channel at this entrance is only about 125 feet wide. Even in good visibility you have to stay alert. The equipment is only a tool, it may fail, but you must not. No matter how long it takes and no matter how many people are watching you make an idiot out of yourself, don't proceed unless you are absolutely certain you have it right. There are only 2 things everybody will remember about your mistakes. There are the ones you corrected, no matter how many times it took and the others... Regards, Capt. Mike Maurice
JD
jim_donohue@computer.org
Thu, Feb 22, 2001 4:03 AM

Mike said:

it right. There are only 2 things everybody will remember about your
mistakes. There are the ones you corrected, no matter how many times it
took and the others...
Regards,

Capt. Mike Maurice

And one of the easiest and most sensible strategies is to lay off for a
while. There is no requirement that you shoot the inlet.  Seas is bad,
visibility is bad, fog is bad - run out to the open ocean and wait.  If you
can't do that you probably do not belong out there.

I have about a  thousand hours  at sea in the dark when it was messy. I
don't think much of radar for anything other than dodging big bodies of
metal - though that is a perfectly reasonable mission.  In a sea it cannot
track anything but big ships and large geographic features.  One can't see a
good size sailboat at 1 mile anymore a panga. And no amount of power or
array width is going to fix this.  The sea simply hides the vessel.

GPS works pretty well all the time.  If you lose it you wait a little bit
and it comes back.  Sure there are inaccuracies - the coast at Puerto
Vallarta is set a least 200 meters in land. So a wise captain would not make
an approach unless he could see clearly.  I would not shoot that approach on
radar either - for different reasons but the same outcome.

My boat will always have at least 3 gps - but probably only a single radar.
Note that the Gps are still cheaper.

Jim- Who would point out that anyone expecting radar to work when the powers
that be don't agree is being very naive.

Mike said: > it right. There are only 2 things everybody will remember about your > mistakes. There are the ones you corrected, no matter how many times it > took and the others... > Regards, > > > Capt. Mike Maurice > And one of the easiest and most sensible strategies is to lay off for a while. There is no requirement that you shoot the inlet. Seas is bad, visibility is bad, fog is bad - run out to the open ocean and wait. If you can't do that you probably do not belong out there. I have about a thousand hours at sea in the dark when it was messy. I don't think much of radar for anything other than dodging big bodies of metal - though that is a perfectly reasonable mission. In a sea it cannot track anything but big ships and large geographic features. One can't see a good size sailboat at 1 mile anymore a panga. And no amount of power or array width is going to fix this. The sea simply hides the vessel. GPS works pretty well all the time. If you lose it you wait a little bit and it comes back. Sure there are inaccuracies - the coast at Puerto Vallarta is set a least 200 meters in land. So a wise captain would not make an approach unless he could see clearly. I would not shoot that approach on radar either - for different reasons but the same outcome. My boat will always have at least 3 gps - but probably only a single radar. Note that the Gps are still cheaper. Jim- Who would point out that anyone expecting radar to work when the powers that be don't agree is being very naive.
M
mikem@yachtsdelivered.com
Thu, Feb 22, 2001 4:16 AM

jim_donohue@computer.org
At 11:03 PM 2/21/01, you wrote:

Jim- Who would point out that anyone expecting radar to work when the powers
that be don't agree is being very naive.

From Mike Maurice----
When I write out these stories, they are from the real thing; I am
disinclined to use hypothetical ones, where a real story is available. When
I made my introduction, some weeks ago, I made it clear, what I do and what
my experience was like. So I assume everyone is informed about those
assumptions. No one should assume, that I am as good as I think I am. What
I bring to the table is the experience that I have in fact accumulated. In
this part of the world, there are a lot of accidents. I have been lucky and
wary and methodical, and unlike many of my contemporaries, I have not had a
serious accident and I am still alive. One false move and a little less
luck, and I would be where they are!
I have no apologies for my tactics. By being open and candid about such
things, makes me vulnerable to some criticism. Such tactics as I have come
to use are legitimate objects of debate. I take that in stride. Some of my
friends had tactics which on the surface were less open to debate and they
are not here, to do so. I consider being here, a reasonable trade off. If I
blow it good, some night and make the evening news, you will recall that I
said that no one is as good as they think they are. I have had crew who
have claimed that I am infallible. And I tell them that is their first big
mistake, don't make another.
There are no private mistakes aboard ship, for the entire crew will pay for
them. I tell them that I make lots of mistakes. The trick isn't in hiding
them, but making a plan to prevent them from happening again. The captain's
job is to prevent mistakes and to have a plan to extract the ship and crew
from any that do happen. This implies everybody watching out for the
mistakes of others. Not as a matter of criticism, but just so we won't all
expire in a cold sea together.
It is much easier to go to sea, than to put such things into words, so I
have made some effort to write them down. Much of it is on my web site, to
which I am constantly adding. I could be a lot less outspoken and then many
would be deprived of the benefit learning from my wealth of mistakes.
I have 3 sons who I have taught about such things and many other who have
crewed. I do have to remind them not to try some of my "stunts", just
because they have seen me do something and get away with it. It's perfectly
legit to learn from some one else, but don't try to emulate their magic
until you know exactly how to do every bit of the magic your self. Ask lots
of questions and don't jump to conclusions. The sailors game is a game you
can learn, and as you learn each new bit, you get a little more powerful.
The trick then is to not reach further than you can grasp, oh maybe just a
teeny bit, more. Eventually you will have your own bag of tricks and make
magic. Magic is something some one else can do, that you don't know how
they do it. But, it's still just magic and if you use your wits instead of
your brawn, why you can do anything, anyone else can! The magic is a
learned thing.
When I write about something, I try to emphasis things that can be done,
because I believe that it's important for others to know what can be done.
Often times we learn new things just by watching or knowing someone else
figured out how to do it.
And as always, hang on to your caution, and if you aren't sure, then use
it, instead of your bravado.
Now, here is something you can sink your teeth into. I carry survival suits
for everyone aboard and I don't care about liferafts. Aw, you say, there he
goes again with that contrary mind. Everyone knows that liferafts are "de
rigour". Ok, I have considered the accidents in this area, especially where
I work. And have concluded that a good raft is too big and heavy to carry
around and one light enough too, is not good enough. And, any accident I
might have would most likely be in an entrance, in a storm, at night.
Voila! Survival suits it is. Because a liferaft is useless in the
entrances. Watch out, now. I have ammunition to back this up.
Ok, so now you know why the survival suits. BTW, I hear that most delivery
captains don't use suits. So let me tell you a little secret. There is a
subtle benefit to carrying suits. It has to do with fear. You will hear me
mention fear often, because I believe firmly that most decisions made by
seaman are based on good old fear. Someone must have told you it was
healthy. So here it is.
I have noticed that occasionally when I have to make a decision about going
left or right, that fear is driving the decision. What I tell you now is
quite hard to put into words. The knowledge that I have the suits makes it
easier to make the best decision. It is very difficult to make the meaning
I have in my mind, into the words that make the notion visible to others.
The suits lower the fear level. The fear is that you are making a decision
that will get everybody else, killed. This fear is not rational, but it is
real, but it is not going to happen, so it is -- irrational! The fear can
make the best disciplined mind freeze. The suits are the talisman, the
rabbit's foot, the lucky charm that makes the fear go away. And if it is
so, and you make better decisions, then carrying them is worthwhile; even
if it is not true that they will save you!
Stay out of trouble, stay alive.
Kindest Regards,

Capt. Mike Maurice

<jim_donohue@computer.org> At 11:03 PM 2/21/01, you wrote: >Jim- Who would point out that anyone expecting radar to work when the powers >that be don't agree is being very naive. From Mike Maurice---- When I write out these stories, they are from the real thing; I am disinclined to use hypothetical ones, where a real story is available. When I made my introduction, some weeks ago, I made it clear, what I do and what my experience was like. So I assume everyone is informed about those assumptions. No one should assume, that I am as good as I think I am. What I bring to the table is the experience that I have in fact accumulated. In this part of the world, there are a lot of accidents. I have been lucky and wary and methodical, and unlike many of my contemporaries, I have not had a serious accident and I am still alive. One false move and a little less luck, and I would be where they are! I have no apologies for my tactics. By being open and candid about such things, makes me vulnerable to some criticism. Such tactics as I have come to use are legitimate objects of debate. I take that in stride. Some of my friends had tactics which on the surface were less open to debate and they are not here, to do so. I consider being here, a reasonable trade off. If I blow it good, some night and make the evening news, you will recall that I said that no one is as good as they think they are. I have had crew who have claimed that I am infallible. And I tell them that is their first big mistake, don't make another. There are no private mistakes aboard ship, for the entire crew will pay for them. I tell them that I make lots of mistakes. The trick isn't in hiding them, but making a plan to prevent them from happening again. The captain's job is to prevent mistakes and to have a plan to extract the ship and crew from any that do happen. This implies everybody watching out for the mistakes of others. Not as a matter of criticism, but just so we won't all expire in a cold sea together. It is much easier to go to sea, than to put such things into words, so I have made some effort to write them down. Much of it is on my web site, to which I am constantly adding. I could be a lot less outspoken and then many would be deprived of the benefit learning from my wealth of mistakes. I have 3 sons who I have taught about such things and many other who have crewed. I do have to remind them not to try some of my "stunts", just because they have seen me do something and get away with it. It's perfectly legit to learn from some one else, but don't try to emulate their magic until you know exactly how to do every bit of the magic your self. Ask lots of questions and don't jump to conclusions. The sailors game is a game you can learn, and as you learn each new bit, you get a little more powerful. The trick then is to not reach further than you can grasp, oh maybe just a teeny bit, more. Eventually you will have your own bag of tricks and make magic. Magic is something some one else can do, that you don't know how they do it. But, it's still just magic and if you use your wits instead of your brawn, why you can do anything, anyone else can! The magic is a learned thing. When I write about something, I try to emphasis things that can be done, because I believe that it's important for others to know what can be done. Often times we learn new things just by watching or knowing someone else figured out how to do it. And as always, hang on to your caution, and if you aren't sure, then use it, instead of your bravado. Now, here is something you can sink your teeth into. I carry survival suits for everyone aboard and I don't care about liferafts. Aw, you say, there he goes again with that contrary mind. Everyone knows that liferafts are "de rigour". Ok, I have considered the accidents in this area, especially where I work. And have concluded that a good raft is too big and heavy to carry around and one light enough too, is not good enough. And, any accident I might have would most likely be in an entrance, in a storm, at night. Voila! Survival suits it is. Because a liferaft is useless in the entrances. Watch out, now. I have ammunition to back this up. Ok, so now you know why the survival suits. BTW, I hear that most delivery captains don't use suits. So let me tell you a little secret. There is a subtle benefit to carrying suits. It has to do with fear. You will hear me mention fear often, because I believe firmly that most decisions made by seaman are based on good old fear. Someone must have told you it was healthy. So here it is. I have noticed that occasionally when I have to make a decision about going left or right, that fear is driving the decision. What I tell you now is quite hard to put into words. The knowledge that I have the suits makes it easier to make the best decision. It is very difficult to make the meaning I have in my mind, into the words that make the notion visible to others. The suits lower the fear level. The fear is that you are making a decision that will get everybody else, killed. This fear is not rational, but it is real, but it is not going to happen, so it is -- irrational! The fear can make the best disciplined mind freeze. The suits are the talisman, the rabbit's foot, the lucky charm that makes the fear go away. And if it is so, and you make better decisions, then carrying them is worthwhile; even if it is not true that they will save you! Stay out of trouble, stay alive. Kindest Regards, Capt. Mike Maurice
JD
jim_donohue@computer.org
Thu, Feb 22, 2001 11:32 PM

The radar comment is that those who turn off GPSs would not be challenged to
disable radar as well.  If you get into an electronic countermeasures
contest I would not expect anything to work.

Fear is an interesting subject.  I believe it to be an important part of the
equations - particularly when sailing at night in heavy weather with limited
visibility. I however feel no pressures on the decision making - it is
simply orthogonal to the fear.  I am however very much afraid of being
physically injured.  I go forward very carefully and only with all hands on
deck.  I try to do things in ways that minimize the risk - even if it takes
a while.  I sometimes decide to wait rather than take risk.

We mentor first timers on the trip to Baja - the Baja haha and similar.  On
one such trip we had a captain who lost it in the dark.  Literally went out
of his mind.  A minor incident with a fuel transfer pump started a sequence
of events ending up with the engine disabled and both anchors out in 2000
fathoms of water.  Took almost 6 hours to fully restore function to the
boat.  And all driven by fear - He knew that his beloved boat was about to
go on the rocks.  We thought at the time it might be a function of a
scopalamine patch but discovered a few days later that he became delusional
after an hour or two in the dark even with company.  Clever about it too.
Actually got out a second gps to prove we were about to go aground while 25
miles from the nearest land.  We convinced him it was a delusion as the
position he determined was almost two days behind us.  He accepted that but
really believed we had been teleported some how. Utterly convinced that we
were being signaled off by a trawler with nets out that we were about to run
over. It finally became neccessary to ban him from the deck at night.

I have no faith in liferafts - Just as soon use the space or money for
something else.  I do like radios and EPIRBs though.  The only reason for
leaving a floating boat is that it is no longer viable to stay on board -
which means the life raft will be far worse. On one very rough trip we had a
brand new and professionally mounted Avon life raft break its mounts.  We
saved it but only because the sea was quieting.  If the sea had contined
breaking over the bow we would surely have lost the raft - even though
everything else was fine. Kinda ironic though - your last hope is the first
thing that fails.

I have used both Furuno and Raytheon on such long hauls as well as an older
commercial CRT.  I prefer the Raytheon though the others worked well enough.
I think the Furuno was past its prime.  I found all the LCD sets too bright
at night.  The Furuno had contrast problems.  I have not found radar useful
in navigation - though fine for collision avoidance.  I would never
penetrate an unknown harbor without good visibility - I would be unwilling
to trust the channel with the gps and would certainly be unwilling to use
radar to identify aton.  Now if I knew the harbor I would just run the gps
course.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com
[mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of Michael
Maurice
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 8:17 PM
To: trawler-world-list@samurai.com
Subject: TWL: RE: More night ops

jim_donohue@computer.org
At 11:03 PM 2/21/01, you wrote:

Jim- Who would point out that anyone expecting radar to work

when the powers

that be don't agree is being very naive.

The radar comment is that those who turn off GPSs would not be challenged to disable radar as well. If you get into an electronic countermeasures contest I would not expect anything to work. Fear is an interesting subject. I believe it to be an important part of the equations - particularly when sailing at night in heavy weather with limited visibility. I however feel no pressures on the decision making - it is simply orthogonal to the fear. I am however very much afraid of being physically injured. I go forward very carefully and only with all hands on deck. I try to do things in ways that minimize the risk - even if it takes a while. I sometimes decide to wait rather than take risk. We mentor first timers on the trip to Baja - the Baja haha and similar. On one such trip we had a captain who lost it in the dark. Literally went out of his mind. A minor incident with a fuel transfer pump started a sequence of events ending up with the engine disabled and both anchors out in 2000 fathoms of water. Took almost 6 hours to fully restore function to the boat. And all driven by fear - He knew that his beloved boat was about to go on the rocks. We thought at the time it might be a function of a scopalamine patch but discovered a few days later that he became delusional after an hour or two in the dark even with company. Clever about it too. Actually got out a second gps to prove we were about to go aground while 25 miles from the nearest land. We convinced him it was a delusion as the position he determined was almost two days behind us. He accepted that but really believed we had been teleported some how. Utterly convinced that we were being signaled off by a trawler with nets out that we were about to run over. It finally became neccessary to ban him from the deck at night. I have no faith in liferafts - Just as soon use the space or money for something else. I do like radios and EPIRBs though. The only reason for leaving a floating boat is that it is no longer viable to stay on board - which means the life raft will be far worse. On one very rough trip we had a brand new and professionally mounted Avon life raft break its mounts. We saved it but only because the sea was quieting. If the sea had contined breaking over the bow we would surely have lost the raft - even though everything else was fine. Kinda ironic though - your last hope is the first thing that fails. I have used both Furuno and Raytheon on such long hauls as well as an older commercial CRT. I prefer the Raytheon though the others worked well enough. I think the Furuno was past its prime. I found all the LCD sets too bright at night. The Furuno had contrast problems. I have not found radar useful in navigation - though fine for collision avoidance. I would never penetrate an unknown harbor without good visibility - I would be unwilling to trust the channel with the gps and would certainly be unwilling to use radar to identify aton. Now if I knew the harbor I would just run the gps course. Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com > [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of Michael > Maurice > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 8:17 PM > To: trawler-world-list@samurai.com > Subject: TWL: RE: More night ops > > > <jim_donohue@computer.org> > At 11:03 PM 2/21/01, you wrote: > >Jim- Who would point out that anyone expecting radar to work > when the powers > >that be don't agree is being very naive. >