Empathy List Archives

FS

Frank Stellmach

Thu, Mar 27, 2014 4:33 PM

Hi,

the DALLAS datasheet specifies 10 years data retention. Quite obviously,
that's the unpowered time.

That time includes self discharge and RAM sustaining currents.

self discharge and RAM supply current will be of the same order, i.e. <
1µA, I assume from experience.
And I assume also, that those currents will vary over samples, i.e. over
samples of battery and RAM.

Recently, there was the case, where the CAL RAM was still alive after 24
years (instrument vintage 1989, same DALLAS date code!), but with
unknown powering history.

Additionally, a typical 10 years of lifetime is given also for those
batteries.

Therefore, in practise there will be no pronounced difference between
powered / unpowered state.
On the other hand, DALLAS implemented an electronic seal, so that the
RAM inside the package is initially powered only after first power up.
But there's no parameter in the datasheet, specifying data retention
according to date code or to initial power up.

The waste of energy just to extend the batteries lifetime, does not pay off.
On the contrary, the MTBF time of the instrument will be consumed, the
display will get bad, and here in Germany, this energy consumption would
cost a fortune (meanwhile: 25+ Cents / kWh, crazy).

Yes, as long the instrument is powered, the CAL RAM will not lose its
content.. but what about unexpected power outages?

If you save the CAL RAM and repogram a fresh one after failure, there's
no need to send it to agilent.

No, not any RAM error needs recalibration.
Those error messages are not documented.

So I've scanned the text fragments in the firmware file:

RAM TEST 1
RAM TEST 2

probably refer to either to the configuration RAMs (2x32kB), andthe CAL
RAM (8kB).

Eror messages are:
NONVOLATILE RAM HiGH /LOW
CAL RAM FAILURE

and known ones from other users:

RAM TEST 1 HIGH / LOW

So I assume, that a real failure of the cal constants only apply on
message: CAL RAM FAILURE and perhaps RAM TEST 2 ...., as RAM TEST 1
should refer to the configuration RAMs only, HIGH to the high byte RAM,
LOW to the low byte RAM.

Errors of the cal RAM will manifest in additional ACAL or CAL failures.

Frank

Hi, the DALLAS datasheet specifies 10 years data retention. Quite obviously, that's the unpowered time. That time includes self discharge and RAM sustaining currents. self discharge and RAM supply current will be of the same order, i.e. < 1µA, I assume from experience. And I assume also, that those currents will vary over samples, i.e. over samples of battery and RAM. Recently, there was the case, where the CAL RAM was still alive after 24 years (instrument vintage 1989, same DALLAS date code!), but with unknown powering history. Additionally, a typical 10 years of lifetime is given also for those batteries. Therefore, in practise there will be no pronounced difference between powered / unpowered state. On the other hand, DALLAS implemented an electronic seal, so that the RAM inside the package is initially powered only after first power up. But there's no parameter in the datasheet, specifying data retention according to date code or to initial power up. The waste of energy just to extend the batteries lifetime, does not pay off. On the contrary, the MTBF time of the instrument will be consumed, the display will get bad, and here in Germany, this energy consumption would cost a fortune (meanwhile: 25+ Cents / kWh, crazy). Yes, as long the instrument is powered, the CAL RAM will not lose its content.. but what about unexpected power outages? If you save the CAL RAM and repogram a fresh one after failure, there's no need to send it to agilent. No, not any RAM error needs recalibration. Those error messages are not documented. So I've scanned the text fragments in the firmware file: RAM TEST 1 RAM TEST 2 probably refer to either to the configuration RAMs (2x32kB), andthe CAL RAM (8kB). Eror messages are: NONVOLATILE RAM HiGH /LOW CAL RAM FAILURE and known ones from other users: RAM TEST 1 HIGH / LOW So I assume, that a real failure of the cal constants only apply on message: CAL RAM FAILURE and perhaps RAM TEST 2 ...., as RAM TEST 1 should refer to the configuration RAMs only, HIGH to the high byte RAM, LOW to the low byte RAM. Errors of the cal RAM will manifest in additional ACAL or CAL failures. Frank

CH

Chuck Harris

Thu, Mar 27, 2014 5:46 PM

Frank Stellmach wrote:

Hi,

the DALLAS datasheet specifies 10 years data retention. Quite obviously, that's the
unpowered time.

It is also the time at the maximum storage temperature... where the silicon
has the most leakage current, and the lithium cells self discharge the most
quickly.

In my experience, they last easily twice to 3 times that long.

-Chuck Harris

Frank Stellmach wrote: > Hi, > > the DALLAS datasheet specifies 10 years data retention. Quite obviously, that's the > unpowered time. It is also the time at the maximum storage temperature... where the silicon has the most leakage current, and the lithium cells self discharge the most quickly. In my experience, they last easily twice to 3 times that long. -Chuck Harris

TK

Tom Knox

Thu, Mar 27, 2014 5:59 PM

Date Codes can be misleading because most of this style of chip does not connect to the battery until the first power up cycle. So evl

Thomas Knox

Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 17:33:17 +0100
From: frank.stellmach@freenet.de
To: volt-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [volt-nuts] 3458a RAM batteries - longer life if unit is continually powered?