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Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement

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Setting Clocks in the Mid 1800's

LM
Larry McDavid
Sat, Nov 1, 2014 3:23 AM

So, what did railroads, clock makers and financial institutions use for
accurate time before 1900? If you were in London, you could subscribe to
a service in which a lady carried a mechanical chronometer to the
Greenwich Observatory in the morning and then made a circuit to
subscribers, allowing them to reset their own clocks.

But, if you worked at a railroad station in England earlier, there was
no lady to carry a chronometer and no telegraphed time much before 1900.
Yet, British trains were scheduled with minute arrival/departure times;
the Brits were fanatical about trains being on time! So, what then was
used to set railroad clocks? And, how did folks in the countryside
determine time sufficiently accurately to meet their trains? Most
sundials can barely be read to five minutes, particularly ones common
folks could afford.

Enter the Dent Dipleidoscope. This was an inexpensive, easy-to-use
optical device that could identify local solar noon easily within tens
of seconds and, with care, within three seconds! For 1850, other than at
an observatory with a noon transit instrument, that was precision with a
capital P.

An antique authentic Dent dipleidoscope is currently offered for live
auction on eBay:

I noticed that a Dipleidoscope is up for live auction on Ebay (USA) - this seems to be a rare offering (not in my budget!).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIPLEIDOSCOPE-/231365300840?ssPageName=ADME:SS:SS:US:3160

LOT 1130
Seller's Estimate: USD 600.0 - 800.0
DIPLEIDOSCOPE - England, 19th century, brass and bronze. Brass and glass prism mechanism inset into a shaped bronze case with scrolled sides. Engraved "Dent's Patent Meridian Instrument" and "67 Strand, London". 3"h. 2.25"w. 3"d.

Pricey, you say? Well, it is an authentic 19th century antique dating
from about 1845 so priced as an antique. Note the buyer's premium also.

I have several Dent Dipleidoscopes, including a rare Dent Universal
model capable of operating at times other than local solar noon and even
in the southern hemisphere. I gave a presentation on the Dent
Dipleidoscope at the Harvard conference of the North American Sundial
Society in 2013. If anyone is interested, I can provide a pdf of that
presentation. The presentation includes history, detailed explanation of
operation and lots of pictures of the construction of the dipleidoscope.

The Dent dipleidoscope provided an easy and inexpensive way to set
clocks at solar noon to an accuracy of better than tens of seconds, with
an achievable accuracy of about three seconds. Short of a noon transit
instrument at an observatory, it was the most accurate way to establish
time. Arguably, a hand-carried mechanical chronometer set that morning
at the Greenwich Observatory was also popular among bankers and
watchmakers in London, though it was a relatively expensive service.
But, the Dent Dipleidoscope could be used throughout England (and,
elsewhere) even on country estates. As the British trains began to run
with minute scheduling, accurate time became much more important!

Best of all, the Dent Dipleidoscope is astonishingly easy to use!

Larry McDavid
NASS Sundial Registrar

And, multiple HP Z3801A owner... times change!

--
Best wishes,

Larry McDavid W6FUB
Anaheim, California  (SE of Los Angeles, near Disneyland)

So, what did railroads, clock makers and financial institutions use for accurate time before 1900? If you were in London, you could subscribe to a service in which a lady carried a mechanical chronometer to the Greenwich Observatory in the morning and then made a circuit to subscribers, allowing them to reset their own clocks. But, if you worked at a railroad station in England earlier, there was no lady to carry a chronometer and no telegraphed time much before 1900. Yet, British trains were scheduled with minute arrival/departure times; the Brits were fanatical about trains being on time! So, what then was used to set railroad clocks? And, how did folks in the countryside determine time sufficiently accurately to meet their trains? Most sundials can barely be read to five minutes, particularly ones common folks could afford. Enter the Dent Dipleidoscope. This was an inexpensive, easy-to-use optical device that could identify local solar noon easily within tens of seconds and, with care, within three seconds! For 1850, other than at an observatory with a noon transit instrument, that was precision with a capital P. An antique authentic Dent dipleidoscope is currently offered for live auction on eBay: >> I noticed that a Dipleidoscope is up for live auction on Ebay (USA) - this seems to be a rare offering (not in my budget!). >> >> >> http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIPLEIDOSCOPE-/231365300840?ssPageName=ADME:SS:SS:US:3160 >> >> >> LOT 1130 >> Seller's Estimate: USD 600.0 - 800.0 >> DIPLEIDOSCOPE - England, 19th century, brass and bronze. Brass and glass prism mechanism inset into a shaped bronze case with scrolled sides. Engraved "Dent's Patent Meridian Instrument" and "67 Strand, London". 3"h. 2.25"w. 3"d. Pricey, you say? Well, it is an authentic 19th century antique dating from about 1845 so priced as an antique. Note the buyer's premium also. I have several Dent Dipleidoscopes, including a rare Dent Universal model capable of operating at times other than local solar noon and even in the southern hemisphere. I gave a presentation on the Dent Dipleidoscope at the Harvard conference of the North American Sundial Society in 2013. If anyone is interested, I can provide a pdf of that presentation. The presentation includes history, detailed explanation of operation and lots of pictures of the construction of the dipleidoscope. The Dent dipleidoscope provided an easy and inexpensive way to set clocks at solar noon to an accuracy of better than tens of seconds, with an achievable accuracy of about three seconds. Short of a noon transit instrument at an observatory, it was the most accurate way to establish time. Arguably, a hand-carried mechanical chronometer set that morning at the Greenwich Observatory was also popular among bankers and watchmakers in London, though it was a relatively expensive service. But, the Dent Dipleidoscope could be used throughout England (and, elsewhere) even on country estates. As the British trains began to run with minute scheduling, accurate time became much more important! Best of all, the Dent Dipleidoscope is astonishingly easy to use! Larry McDavid NASS Sundial Registrar And, multiple HP Z3801A owner... times change! -- Best wishes, Larry McDavid W6FUB Anaheim, California (SE of Los Angeles, near Disneyland)
SG
Sanjeev Gupta
Sat, Nov 1, 2014 7:14 AM

On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Larry McDavid lmcdavid@lmceng.com wrote:

I gave a presentation on the Dent Dipleidoscope at the Harvard conference
of the North American Sundial Society in 2013. If anyone is interested, I
can provide a pdf of that presentation. The presentation includes history,
detailed explanation of operation and lots of pictures of the construction
of the dipleidoscope.

(specifically on-list)

Larry, I, for one, would appreciate your presentation.

--
Sanjeev Gupta
+65 98551208    http://www.linkedin.com/in/ghane

On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Larry McDavid <lmcdavid@lmceng.com> wrote: > I gave a presentation on the Dent Dipleidoscope at the Harvard conference > of the North American Sundial Society in 2013. If anyone is interested, I > can provide a pdf of that presentation. The presentation includes history, > detailed explanation of operation and lots of pictures of the construction > of the dipleidoscope. (specifically on-list) Larry, I, for one, would appreciate your presentation. -- Sanjeev Gupta +65 98551208 http://www.linkedin.com/in/ghane
PS
paul swed
Sat, Nov 1, 2014 3:18 PM

I would be quite interested in reading your presentation also.
Thank you
Paul
WB8TSL

On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 3:14 AM, Sanjeev Gupta ghane0@gmail.com wrote:

On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Larry McDavid lmcdavid@lmceng.com
wrote:

I gave a presentation on the Dent Dipleidoscope at the Harvard conference
of the North American Sundial Society in 2013. If anyone is interested, I
can provide a pdf of that presentation. The presentation includes

history,

detailed explanation of operation and lots of pictures of the

construction

of the dipleidoscope.

(specifically on-list)

Larry, I, for one, would appreciate your presentation.

--
Sanjeev Gupta
+65 98551208    http://www.linkedin.com/in/ghane


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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and follow the instructions there.

I would be quite interested in reading your presentation also. Thank you Paul WB8TSL On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 3:14 AM, Sanjeev Gupta <ghane0@gmail.com> wrote: > On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Larry McDavid <lmcdavid@lmceng.com> > wrote: > > > I gave a presentation on the Dent Dipleidoscope at the Harvard conference > > of the North American Sundial Society in 2013. If anyone is interested, I > > can provide a pdf of that presentation. The presentation includes > history, > > detailed explanation of operation and lots of pictures of the > construction > > of the dipleidoscope. > > > (specifically on-list) > > Larry, I, for one, would appreciate your presentation. > > -- > Sanjeev Gupta > +65 98551208 http://www.linkedin.com/in/ghane > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >
BC
Brooke Clarke
Sat, Nov 1, 2014 9:16 PM

Hi Larry:

Yes, please.
Here's my Dent Dipleidoscope:
http://www.prc68.com/I/Dent.shtml

Mail_Attachment --
Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
http://www.prc68.com/I/DietNutrition.html
Sanjeev Gupta wrote:

On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Larry McDavid lmcdavid@lmceng.com wrote:

I gave a presentation on the Dent Dipleidoscope at the Harvard conference
of the North American Sundial Society in 2013. If anyone is interested, I
can provide a pdf of that presentation. The presentation includes history,
detailed explanation of operation and lots of pictures of the construction
of the dipleidoscope.

(specifically on-list)

Larry, I, for one, would appreciate your presentation.

Hi Larry: Yes, please. Here's my Dent Dipleidoscope: http://www.prc68.com/I/Dent.shtml Mail_Attachment -- Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html http://www.prc68.com/I/DietNutrition.html Sanjeev Gupta wrote: > On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Larry McDavid <lmcdavid@lmceng.com> wrote: > >> I gave a presentation on the Dent Dipleidoscope at the Harvard conference >> of the North American Sundial Society in 2013. If anyone is interested, I >> can provide a pdf of that presentation. The presentation includes history, >> detailed explanation of operation and lots of pictures of the construction >> of the dipleidoscope. > > (specifically on-list) > > Larry, I, for one, would appreciate your presentation. >
LM
Larry McDavid
Sun, Nov 2, 2014 2:08 AM

Yes, that is one of the original 1843 dipleidoscope designs. All the
original black finish seems to have been polished away, however.

This original design used a lot of expensive brass. Later models used a
cast brass "{scroll" base and a dipleidoscope body machined from a round
brass bar; this could be used for either the British Isles or for the
India model.

Larry

On 11/1/2014 2:16 PM, Brooke Clarke wrote:

Hi Larry:

Yes, please.
Here's my Dent Dipleidoscope:
http://www.prc68.com/I/Dent.shtml

Mail_Attachment --
Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
http://www.prc68.com/I/DietNutrition.html
Sanjeev Gupta wrote:

On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Larry McDavid lmcdavid@lmceng.com
wrote:

I gave a presentation on the Dent Dipleidoscope at the Harvard
conference
of the North American Sundial Society in 2013. If anyone is
interested, I
can provide a pdf of that presentation. The presentation includes
history,
detailed explanation of operation and lots of pictures of the
construction
of the dipleidoscope.

(specifically on-list)

Larry, I, for one, would appreciate your presentation.


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

--
Best wishes,

Larry McDavid W6FUB
Anaheim, California  (SE of Los Angeles, near Disneyland)

Yes, that is one of the original 1843 dipleidoscope designs. All the original black finish seems to have been polished away, however. This original design used a lot of expensive brass. Later models used a cast brass "{scroll" base and a dipleidoscope body machined from a round brass bar; this could be used for either the British Isles or for the India model. Larry On 11/1/2014 2:16 PM, Brooke Clarke wrote: > Hi Larry: > > Yes, please. > Here's my Dent Dipleidoscope: > http://www.prc68.com/I/Dent.shtml > > Mail_Attachment -- > Have Fun, > > Brooke Clarke > http://www.PRC68.com > http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html > http://www.prc68.com/I/DietNutrition.html > Sanjeev Gupta wrote: >> On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Larry McDavid <lmcdavid@lmceng.com> >> wrote: >> >>> I gave a presentation on the Dent Dipleidoscope at the Harvard >>> conference >>> of the North American Sundial Society in 2013. If anyone is >>> interested, I >>> can provide a pdf of that presentation. The presentation includes >>> history, >>> detailed explanation of operation and lots of pictures of the >>> construction >>> of the dipleidoscope. >> >> (specifically on-list) >> >> Larry, I, for one, would appreciate your presentation. >> > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- Best wishes, Larry McDavid W6FUB Anaheim, California (SE of Los Angeles, near Disneyland)