Suitable Boats
Bob Austin said:
So come on guys, lets encourage all folks who are interested in
passagemaking,
and not make this the "Nordhavn club".
AND
Yes, there is a really fantastic business model and
advertising scheme going here! (Got to have the next size boat, or too
big a
boat--nonsense--this is all hype)
Bob,
Good on you for now having a power cat, and I certainly look forward to
hearing about its attributes and your experiences on it. However your
antipathy towards Nordhavn's intrigues me. The only postings I can see
on Nordhavn's to any extent come from our tireless list manager Scott.
Why don't you take it over from him, as if my memory serves me correctly
he has made the open offer before? Scott is a great contributor to our
Nordhavn owner's site and I'm sure his appetite for idea exchange is
well sated with fellow boaters all singing from the same hymn page about
going to sea in great boats.
On the issue of hype that you mention you have got this completely wrong
in my view. This implies that people purchase Nordhavn's on hype rather
than experience, hard cold research, and perspicacity. The profile I
have of a typical Nordhavn owner is someone who has an
engineering/quality type background. Commercial airline pilots certainly
stands out as one major background. I personally have no engineering,
but bought my Nordhavn based on advice from experts who have
collectively done many tough circumnavigations and are regarded as "old
sea dogs" One such fellow the late Meyer Page and I had 6 days at sea
together from Fiji to NZ on the last leg of a circumnavigation. This was
on his 68' custom built Motor/sailer, or Pilot house yachts as we call
them downunder. He said if he had his time over again he would buy a
Nordhavn for the safety, comfort, and resale aspect. Sadly he sold his
beautiful boat "Lady Catherine" for a song, and passed away through the
ravages of cancer.
I am only the 3rd Nordhavn owner hailing from Melbourne, the other two
are owned by Michael Lasky and Geoff McGeary who upgraded both their
time worn 57's to a 76 & a 78. These guys are not prone to hype - they
are astute businessmen which is probably why they can afford such big
suckers.
I detect a bitterness that maybe is born from another issue (did your
mother in law buy one?). Or maybe it's related to the answer "why does a
dog lick his balls", and that is "because he can"
Finally on catamarans, the Australian company Incat designed a wave
piercing high speed catamaran ferry to move people and cars across Bass
Strait between Melbourne and Tasmania. They have since sold 22 of these
upwards to Europe, three to the US Military, and others to the
Australian military. Guess what? The Australian Maritime Safety
Authority banned them running across Bass Strait as a passenger ferry -
too dangerous. Steve Dashew said that when a Kiwi does a
circumnavigation, the roughest sea he will encounter will be within 200
miles of NZ. Not sure about how the other Trawlers brands you mention,
and particularly power cats would fair down this way. Have you heard of
the "Queens Birthday tragedy", "1999 Sydney to Hobart Race, or which
country won the tragic Fastnet race a few years ago?"
Thank goodness I have a Nordhavn, and astute enough to reject buying
anything on hype - money is much too hard to come by.
Peter Sheppard
I'm going to second Bob on the Nordhavn hype, they must have a super sales
department, plus it seems like they have there target market figured out.
They do look "shippy" though.
From: "Peter Sheppard" Peter@petersheppard.com.au
Reply-To: Passagemaking Under Power
Listpassagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com
To: passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com
Subject: [PUP] Suitable Boats
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 13:05:40 +1100
Bob Austin said:
So come on guys, lets encourage all folks who are interested in
passagemaking,
and not make this the "Nordhavn club".
AND
Yes, there is a really fantastic business model and
advertising scheme going here! (Got to have the next size boat, or too
big a
boat--nonsense--this is all hype)
Bob,
Good on you for now having a power cat, and I certainly look forward to
hearing about its attributes and your experiences on it. However your
antipathy towards Nordhavn's intrigues me. The only postings I can see
on Nordhavn's to any extent come from our tireless list manager Scott.
Why don't you take it over from him, as if my memory serves me correctly
he has made the open offer before? Scott is a great contributor to our
Nordhavn owner's site and I'm sure his appetite for idea exchange is
well sated with fellow boaters all singing from the same hymn page about
going to sea in great boats.
On the issue of hype that you mention you have got this completely wrong
in my view. This implies that people purchase Nordhavn's on hype rather
than experience, hard cold research, and perspicacity. The profile I
have of a typical Nordhavn owner is someone who has an
engineering/quality type background. Commercial airline pilots certainly
stands out as one major background. I personally have no engineering,
but bought my Nordhavn based on advice from experts who have
collectively done many tough circumnavigations and are regarded as "old
sea dogs" One such fellow the late Meyer Page and I had 6 days at sea
together from Fiji to NZ on the last leg of a circumnavigation. This was
on his 68' custom built Motor/sailer, or Pilot house yachts as we call
them downunder. He said if he had his time over again he would buy a
Nordhavn for the safety, comfort, and resale aspect. Sadly he sold his
beautiful boat "Lady Catherine" for a song, and passed away through the
ravages of cancer.
I am only the 3rd Nordhavn owner hailing from Melbourne, the other two
are owned by Michael Lasky and Geoff McGeary who upgraded both their
time worn 57's to a 76 & a 78. These guys are not prone to hype - they
are astute businessmen which is probably why they can afford such big
suckers.
I detect a bitterness that maybe is born from another issue (did your
mother in law buy one?). Or maybe it's related to the answer "why does a
dog lick his balls", and that is "because he can"
Finally on catamarans, the Australian company Incat designed a wave
piercing high speed catamaran ferry to move people and cars across Bass
Strait between Melbourne and Tasmania. They have since sold 22 of these
upwards to Europe, three to the US Military, and others to the
Australian military. Guess what? The Australian Maritime Safety
Authority banned them running across Bass Strait as a passenger ferry -
too dangerous. Steve Dashew said that when a Kiwi does a
circumnavigation, the roughest sea he will encounter will be within 200
miles of NZ. Not sure about how the other Trawlers brands you mention,
and particularly power cats would fair down this way. Have you heard of
the "Queens Birthday tragedy", "1999 Sydney to Hobart Race, or which
country won the tragic Fastnet race a few years ago?"
Thank goodness I have a Nordhavn, and astute enough to reject buying
anything on hype - money is much too hard to come by.
Peter Sheppard
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Respectfully, Peter, I don't think that Bob has any "antipathy towards
Nordhavn" and I am sure that you recognize that he is a tireless and
frequent contributor to this and other sites.
He hardly deserves criticism for pointing out that Nordhavn has a great
business model. It does, although the "get the next best and bigger model"
is hardly unique -- Nordhavn has certainly done a wonderful job in its
implementation. The reference to "hype" was to ability of companies to
market their next or "better" or "bigger" model to produce sales. That is
certainly nothing new and not something on which Nordhavn has cornered the
market. The "hype" comment -- if I read it correctly -- was a people
comment, not a Nordhavn comment.
I think Bob's point was that passagemaking under power need not be limited
to Nordhavns or, for that matter, Krogans. I agree. I don't remember him
saying that Nordhavns were not great boats, only that they were not the only
way to cross oceans.
The comment about the mother-in-law and the dog were way off base, in my
opinion.
Alan Wagner
Tampa, Florida
Currently, "Morning Delight"
Under construction in Halifax by YachtSmiths International:
"Passage of Time" (Kasten designed 53')
http://kastenmarine.com/valdemar52.htm
http://yachtsmiths.com/valdemar_52_gallery_01.htm
Hi Guys,
I opened my gmail today and I found over 30 emails back and forth about you
guys discussing an array of different subjects and I thought like putting my
nose in it too for a bit.
This 'discussion' of yours about the Nordhavn's are fascinating to read. In
one way or another, almost all of you have a good point about this subject:
BOB: "So come on guys, lets encourage all folks who are interested in
passagemaking, and not make this the "Nordhavn club".
Absolutely! Lets give incentive to more people to get rid of their fears and
anxieties and to be able to experience what we power/sail 'boaters' are
experiencing. BUT, and that is a BIG BUT, hopping that THEY KNOW WHAT THEY
ARE DOING when they do finally purchase a boat that may haven't been tried
exhaustively by the company owners and some private owners and that can give
you a testimony by EXPERIENCE that the boat is safe and seaworthy.
Just to exemplify what I am talking about. We went to the Dusseldorf last
boat show in Germany a couple of months ago and we visited the the most
talked about boat of the show which was this 'thing' called 'Bandido', a
motorboat 90 feet long with a lot of steel, built by Drettman.
www.bandido-yachts.com
The boat is big, expensive as hell ( I stick to my Nordhavn 57 at any day of
the year!) full of non sense stuff including the shock of my life: THE
GALLEY HAD A CERAMIC STOVE TOP! I almost fell with horror to think that a
boat that was supposed to be build to go to sea ( as they claim) has a
ceramic, shinning and impossibly slippery top with no protection whats or
ever around, could be aloud to be fitted!
Are they kidding? Have this people EVER been at sea before and tried to cook
at least once? And this is only one aspect of a very big boat with many
complex systems to go wrong in the wrong places of the 'seven seas' as they
put it.
YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN? I guess Peter does.
ALAN: "It does, although the "get the next best and bigger model"is hardly
unique -- Nordhavn has certainly done a wonderful job in its
implementation. The reference to "hype" was to ability of companies to
market their next or "better" or "bigger" model to produce sales.
YES, they are good on that but Alan, PAE does't ONLY do good publicity and
feed the 'hype', to get sales sailing, they get their hands dirty and they
experience themselves what they preach with success and that is something to
REALLY consider here. Also, everytime we needed them in the middle of
nowhere or in a busy city, they where there for us. They ALWAYS picked up
their phones and gave us support an that is important too and only who have
been out there and needed this kind of customer service will understand what
I am saying. So, when one buys a Nordhavn, one is not only buing a good and
seawothy boat, one is bying a very important package that cames with it too.
(again, my humble opinion, though)
PETER: "On the issue of hype that you mention you have got this completely
wrong in my view. This implies that people purchase Nordhavn's on hype
rather than experience, hard cold research, and perspicacity. The profile I
have of a typical Nordhavn owner is someone who has an engineering/quality
type background. Commercial airline pilots certainly stands out as one major
background."
In opinion you are SPOT ON Peter!
My captain and partner in life Chris Samuelson who is not only is a VERY
SMART GUY but was one of the biggest boat builder in England in the 80's
and has been sailing since the was 4 years old and is a very successful
business man, has spent a long time on researching many different
boats before he chose our Nordhavan 57 almost 4 years ago. After a lot of
consideration, he decided to put his faith in PAE and the Nordhavn's sea
worthiness and told me that he wouldn't go out to sea with anything else
(his personal opinion, of course). To be honest, I haven't been at sea with
'anything else' but I am really happy to stick with our Goleen, though.
When I started cruising I didn't know anything about boating AT ALL. The two
of us did a lot of trips on our own on manacing waters and I must say that
it was a very steep learn curve INDEED for me but one thing that I NEVER
felt was that I was unsafe, that the boat wouldn't take it. She looked after
us every time we needed her to look after us. Cracking boat!
When you guys talk about this and that regarding the cruising world and
experiences, you talk from a 'male' perspective which is a whole different
ball game from us 'girls'. It is a lot about technicalities, bits and
bolts, spare parts and engines... a bit tougher and braver world, even if it
is sometimes only to look and feel good.
Us 'girls' see the cruising world and life in a different light and being
anxious about a passage is a recipe for seasickness and many other abhorrent
feelings.
The bottom line is that feeling/being safe is PARAMOUNT and I do HOPE that
all of you guys and girls out there that are about to buy a new boat,
Nordhavn or not, do your research well and make sure that the beauty and the
sea worthiness of your new purchase is not left behind in 'terra firma' on
those glossy brochures/magazines when you go for a long passage or Ocean
crossing.
All the best to you all.
Sonaia Hermida
Goleen's Nordhan 5729 first mate, admiral and everything in between
On 3/19/07, Alan Wagner Wagner.Florida@verizon.net wrote:
Respectfully, Peter, I don't think that Bob has any "antipathy towards
Nordhavn" and I am sure that you recognize that he is a tireless and
frequent contributor to this and other sites.
He hardly deserves criticism for pointing out that Nordhavn has a great
business model. It does, although the "get the next best and bigger
model"
is hardly unique -- Nordhavn has certainly done a wonderful job in its
implementation. The reference to "hype" was to ability of companies to
market their next or "better" or "bigger" model to produce sales. That is
certainly nothing new and not something on which Nordhavn has cornered the
market. The "hype" comment -- if I read it correctly -- was a people
comment, not a Nordhavn comment.
I think Bob's point was that passagemaking under power need not be limited
to Nordhavns or, for that matter, Krogans. I agree. I don't remember him
saying that Nordhavns were not great boats, only that they were not the
only
way to cross oceans.
The comment about the mother-in-law and the dog were way off base, in my
opinion.
Alan Wagner
Tampa, Florida
Currently, "Morning Delight"
Under construction in Halifax by YachtSmiths International:
"Passage of Time" (Kasten designed 53')
http://kastenmarine.com/valdemar52.htm
http://yachtsmiths.com/valdemar_52_gallery_01.htm
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