Empathy List Archives

RA

Rudy and Jill

Tue, May 31, 2016 12:32 PM

We think that a single engine is the way to go. If the boat has a small rudder, for slow speed maneuverability, add a bow thruster. But, this assumes a religious adherence to a through maintenance program, an excellent spare parts department, all of the necessary manuals, in particular the parts manual, and clean tanks. Along with this, if the boat will be going where help, parts, and towing is hard to find, then a dependable "get somewhere" system is a big component of cruising with less anxiety, as long as it is as simple of a system as is possible. Single engines, since there is more room to get to the hard-to-get-to items on the engine, will often lend itself to someone being more willing to do the maintenance, thus providing a more reliable engine.

Some folks think that twin engines negates the above concerns, but if a maintenance program is not adhered to for one engine, it won't be for the other. Since fuel problems is the most frequent problem with diesel engines, if the fuel is a problem for one engine, more than likely it will be a problem for both. Fuel polishing isn't the answer either, as if a bad load of fuel is taken on, it takes a lot of polishing to clean that fuel. The same if you start with dirty tanks. So it is best to start with clean tanks and have some way of cleaning, if not a whole tank of fuel, at least some fuel, while you are "out to sea". Once that plan is implemented, then spending the time and money to install a fuel polishing system, if you want one, makes sense.

Okay, go for it you "twin engine" guys and gals.

Rudy and Jill
Green Turtle Cay, Abacos
Briney Bug- a 34 foot sail-assisted trawler
850-832-7748

On Mon, 5/30/16, Richard P via Trawlers-and-Trawlering trawlers@lists.trawlering.com wrote:

Subject: T&T: twin engines pro and con
To: "trawlers@lists.trawlering.com trawlers@lists.trawlering.com" trawlers@lists.trawlering.com
Date: Monday, May 30, 2016, 10:59 PM

In looking for a trawler, 35-42ft
long to be used in Mexico's Sea of
Cortez I have been frustrated by my excluding any boat with
twin engines.
Many boats I see advertised on yachtworld have twin engines
so I am
wondering if I am making a mistake by excluding them.

My thoughts are that twins 1. Double the work to service
them, 2. make the
ER crowded, 3.Add at least 40% to the sound level and 4.
Consume more fuel
for a given speed thus limiting my range in an area where
fuel sources are
very far apart. 5. Double the service effort and complexity
with twin
rudders. 6. Have exposed props that may lead to damage when
hitting a log
or rock.

I am not at all concerned about redundancy issues nor do I
need
maneuverability in close quarters. I also don't need more
than about 50hp
since I cruise at about 80% of hull speed.

Can the experts on this list tell me reasons that I am
mistaken on
eliminating boats from my search that have twins?

Thanks

Richard

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We think that a single engine is the way to go. If the boat has a small rudder, for slow speed maneuverability, add a bow thruster. But, this assumes a religious adherence to a through maintenance program, an excellent spare parts department, all of the necessary manuals, in particular the parts manual, and clean tanks. Along with this, if the boat will be going where help, parts, and towing is hard to find, then a dependable "get somewhere" system is a big component of cruising with less anxiety, as long as it is as simple of a system as is possible. Single engines, since there is more room to get to the hard-to-get-to items on the engine, will often lend itself to someone being more willing to do the maintenance, thus providing a more reliable engine. Some folks think that twin engines negates the above concerns, but if a maintenance program is not adhered to for one engine, it won't be for the other. Since fuel problems is the most frequent problem with diesel engines, if the fuel is a problem for one engine, more than likely it will be a problem for both. Fuel polishing isn't the answer either, as if a bad load of fuel is taken on, it takes a lot of polishing to clean that fuel. The same if you start with dirty tanks. So it is best to start with clean tanks and have some way of cleaning, if not a whole tank of fuel, at least some fuel, while you are "out to sea". Once that plan is implemented, then spending the time and money to install a fuel polishing system, if you want one, makes sense. Okay, go for it you "twin engine" guys and gals. Rudy and Jill Green Turtle Cay, Abacos Briney Bug- a 34 foot sail-assisted trawler 850-832-7748 -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 5/30/16, Richard P via Trawlers-and-Trawlering <trawlers@lists.trawlering.com> wrote: Subject: T&T: twin engines pro and con To: "trawlers@lists.trawlering.com trawlers@lists.trawlering.com" <trawlers@lists.trawlering.com> Date: Monday, May 30, 2016, 10:59 PM In looking for a trawler, 35-42ft long to be used in Mexico's Sea of Cortez I have been frustrated by my excluding any boat with twin engines. Many boats I see advertised on yachtworld have twin engines so I am wondering if I am making a mistake by excluding them. My thoughts are that twins 1. Double the work to service them, 2. make the ER crowded, 3.Add at least 40% to the sound level and 4. Consume more fuel for a given speed thus limiting my range in an area where fuel sources are very far apart. 5. Double the service effort and complexity with twin rudders. 6. Have exposed props that may lead to damage when hitting a log or rock. I am not at all concerned about redundancy issues nor do I need maneuverability in close quarters. I also don't need more than about 50hp since I cruise at about 80% of hull speed. Can the experts on this list tell me reasons that I am mistaken on eliminating boats from my search that have twins? Thanks Richard _______________________________________________ http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options (get password, change email address, etc) go to: http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com Trawlers & Trawlering and T&T are trademarks of Water World Productions. Unauthorized use is prohibited.

RG

Rich Gano

Tue, May 31, 2016 3:40 PM

Rudy's comments below seem to echo an underlying a belief by him as well as others that having twin engines automatically means that neither is as well maintained as well on average as would a single engine in the same boat. My experience on boats does not support this line of thought. If you have twin engines you don't care for, you are likely going to be that same person on a boat with a single engine, and it will suffer the same neglect. On the flip side, in my personal boats, I don't think my current single engine is any better cared for than the twins I babied like children. It's not the characteristics of the boat that dictate owner care, it's the character of the owner.

On the topic of clean fuel in twin engine boats, why would a conscientious owner ever consider himself safe from a fuel-induced end of voyage just because he has two engines? That's just silly to think you would not lose both engines at once. I well remember a delivery up the California coast of a 60-foot ChrisCraft with BIG twin Detroits in fourteen foot seas (weather center estimates, not mine) when both engines began to surge due to fuel filter clogging (luckily, a safe haven was close by). You clean all tanks and keep them clean on this assumption, just like you do all the other conscientious maintenance on the most expensive part of the boat - engines. And for a single or twin engine owner, fueling during long trips can be accomplished in such a manner than the owner is not gambling the whole trip on a single fueling. Just fuel more often into a segregated tank which can be polished or polish the fuel before leaving to ensure it is good.

I think twins and singles are the way to go.

Rich Gano
FROLIC 2005 Mainship 30 Pilot II
Panama City, FL

We think that a single engine is the way to go. If the boat has a small rudder,
for slow speed maneuverability, add a bow thruster. But, this assumes a
religious adherence to a through maintenance program, an excellent spare
parts department, all of the necessary manuals, in particular the parts
manual, and clean tanks

Some folks think that twin engines negates the above concerns, but if a
maintenance program is not adhered to for one engine, it won't be for the
other. Since fuel problems is the most frequent problem with diesel engines,
if the fuel is a problem for one engine, more than likely it will be a problem for
both. Fuel polishing isn't the answer either

Rudy's comments below seem to echo an underlying a belief by him as well as others that having twin engines automatically means that neither is as well maintained as well on average as would a single engine in the same boat. My experience on boats does not support this line of thought. If you have twin engines you don't care for, you are likely going to be that same person on a boat with a single engine, and it will suffer the same neglect. On the flip side, in my personal boats, I don't think my current single engine is any better cared for than the twins I babied like children. It's not the characteristics of the boat that dictate owner care, it's the character of the owner. On the topic of clean fuel in twin engine boats, why would a conscientious owner ever consider himself safe from a fuel-induced end of voyage just because he has two engines? That's just silly to think you would not lose both engines at once. I well remember a delivery up the California coast of a 60-foot ChrisCraft with BIG twin Detroits in fourteen foot seas (weather center estimates, not mine) when both engines began to surge due to fuel filter clogging (luckily, a safe haven was close by). You clean all tanks and keep them clean on this assumption, just like you do all the other conscientious maintenance on the most expensive part of the boat - engines. And for a single or twin engine owner, fueling during long trips can be accomplished in such a manner than the owner is not gambling the whole trip on a single fueling. Just fuel more often into a segregated tank which can be polished or polish the fuel before leaving to ensure it is good. I think twins and singles are the way to go. Rich Gano FROLIC 2005 Mainship 30 Pilot II Panama City, FL > We think that a single engine is the way to go. If the boat has a small rudder, > for slow speed maneuverability, add a bow thruster. But, this assumes a > religious adherence to a through maintenance program, an excellent spare > parts department, all of the necessary manuals, in particular the parts > manual, and clean tanks > > Some folks think that twin engines negates the above concerns, but if a > maintenance program is not adhered to for one engine, it won't be for the > other. Since fuel problems is the most frequent problem with diesel engines, > if the fuel is a problem for one engine, more than likely it will be a problem for > both. Fuel polishing isn't the answer either

DB

David Boone

Tue, May 31, 2016 4:04 PM

I agree with Rich! All engines require clean fuel, air for aspiration, and acooling system. Get out side and you will find the gunk, dirty air or filters? Weeds blocking water intake? All True with a single diesel or four outboards! Looking at purchase options I would not exclude twin engine options. Judy's point is well taken and she knows the business! either has buyers. Look at them all and make your choice. It's the discussion same in aviation. You either maintain engines properly or you don't, Certainly one is cheaper than two. We fish far offshore with a single center console and radio and I feel safe.

David Wm. Boone
MY Ramaela
Lying Beaufort NC
Sent from my iPhone , please excuse spelling and syntax errors

On May 31, 2016, at 5:40 PM, Rich Gano via Trawlers-and-Trawlering trawlers@lists.trawlering.com wrote:

Rudy's comments below seem to echo an underlying a belief by him as well as others that having twin engines automatically means that neither is as well maintained as well on average as would a single engine in the same boat. My experience on boats does not support this line of thought. If you have twin engines you don't care for, you are likely going to be that same person on a boat with a single engine, and it will suffer the same neglect. On the flip side, in my personal boats, I don't think my current single engine is any better cared for than the twins I babied like children. It's not the characteristics of the boat that dictate owner care, it's the character of the owner.

On the topic of clean fuel in twin engine boats, why would a conscientious owner ever consider himself safe from a fuel-induced end of voyage just because he has two engines? That's just silly to think you would not lose both engines at once. I well remember a delivery up the California coast of a 60-foot ChrisCraft with BIG twin Detroits in fourteen foot seas (weather center estimates, not mine) when both engines began to surge due to fuel filter clogging (luckily, a safe haven was close by). You clean all tanks and keep them clean on this assumption, just like you do all the other conscientious maintenance on the most expensive part of the boat - engines. And for a single or twin engine owner, fueling during long trips can be accomplished in such a manner than the owner is not gambling the whole trip on a single fueling. Just fuel more often into a segregated tank which can be polished or polish the fuel before leaving to ensure it is good.

I think twins and singles are the way to go.

Rich Gano
FROLIC 2005 Mainship 30 Pilot II
Panama City, FL

We think that a single engine is the way to go. If the boat has a small rudder,
for slow speed maneuverability, add a bow thruster. But, this assumes a
religious adherence to a through maintenance program, an excellent spare
parts department, all of the necessary manuals, in particular the parts
manual, and clean tanks

Some folks think that twin engines negates the above concerns, but if a
maintenance program is not adhered to for one engine, it won't be for the
other. Since fuel problems is the most frequent problem with diesel engines,
if the fuel is a problem for one engine, more than likely it will be a problem for
both. Fuel polishing isn't the answer either

http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com

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Trawlers & Trawlering and T&T are trademarks of Water World
Productions. Unauthorized use is prohibited.

I agree with Rich! All engines require clean fuel, air for aspiration, and acooling system. Get out side and you will find the gunk, dirty air or filters? Weeds blocking water intake? All True with a single diesel or four outboards! Looking at purchase options I would not exclude twin engine options. Judy's point is well taken and she knows the business! either has buyers. Look at them all and make your choice. It's the discussion same in aviation. You either maintain engines properly or you don't, Certainly one is cheaper than two. We fish far offshore with a single center console and radio and I feel safe. David Wm. Boone MY Ramaela Lying Beaufort NC Sent from my iPhone , please excuse spelling and syntax errors On May 31, 2016, at 5:40 PM, Rich Gano via Trawlers-and-Trawlering <trawlers@lists.trawlering.com> wrote: Rudy's comments below seem to echo an underlying a belief by him as well as others that having twin engines automatically means that neither is as well maintained as well on average as would a single engine in the same boat. My experience on boats does not support this line of thought. If you have twin engines you don't care for, you are likely going to be that same person on a boat with a single engine, and it will suffer the same neglect. On the flip side, in my personal boats, I don't think my current single engine is any better cared for than the twins I babied like children. It's not the characteristics of the boat that dictate owner care, it's the character of the owner. On the topic of clean fuel in twin engine boats, why would a conscientious owner ever consider himself safe from a fuel-induced end of voyage just because he has two engines? That's just silly to think you would not lose both engines at once. I well remember a delivery up the California coast of a 60-foot ChrisCraft with BIG twin Detroits in fourteen foot seas (weather center estimates, not mine) when both engines began to surge due to fuel filter clogging (luckily, a safe haven was close by). You clean all tanks and keep them clean on this assumption, just like you do all the other conscientious maintenance on the most expensive part of the boat - engines. And for a single or twin engine owner, fueling during long trips can be accomplished in such a manner than the owner is not gambling the whole trip on a single fueling. Just fuel more often into a segregated tank which can be polished or polish the fuel before leaving to ensure it is good. I think twins and singles are the way to go. Rich Gano FROLIC 2005 Mainship 30 Pilot II Panama City, FL > We think that a single engine is the way to go. If the boat has a small rudder, > for slow speed maneuverability, add a bow thruster. But, this assumes a > religious adherence to a through maintenance program, an excellent spare > parts department, all of the necessary manuals, in particular the parts > manual, and clean tanks > > Some folks think that twin engines negates the above concerns, but if a > maintenance program is not adhered to for one engine, it won't be for the > other. Since fuel problems is the most frequent problem with diesel engines, > if the fuel is a problem for one engine, more than likely it will be a problem for > both. Fuel polishing isn't the answer either _______________________________________________ http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options (get password, change email address, etc) go to: http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com Trawlers & Trawlering and T&T are trademarks of Water World Productions. Unauthorized use is prohibited.

trawlers@lists.trawlering.com

Re: T&T: twin engines pro and con