Empathy List Archives

BE

bob england

Mon, Mar 27, 2006 2:37 AM

I to agree, fast trawler is the most moronic of oxymorons. A good salesman
can sell almost anything to someone. It just proves an old point that the
average I.Q. is 100- and that means half the people are dumber than that- My
sportfisher has a "fast trawler" hull form- i.e. semiplaning and it is a
bear in a following sea, not to mention getting pooped because of the low
gunnells. But, it is what it is. It was made to go fishing in fair weather
and get there fast. It does that very well. My Krogen has a nice rounded
stern that gives lots of lift in a following sea and high gunnells that
would be hard to poop. It has HUGE deck scuppers (4inches by 18 inches) just
in case. It is a much safer boat. One thing about the Nordies that has
bothered me was when they needed to modify the hull for a better engine fit.
Seems like they called the addition "maintenance strakes" basically bulges
on the hull. I am ok. with that but then they said that there testing showed
an increase in fuel economy because of it. Good salesman, average I.Q. ???

I to agree, fast trawler is the most moronic of oxymorons. A good salesman can sell almost anything to someone. It just proves an old point that the average I.Q. is 100- and that means half the people are dumber than that- My sportfisher has a "fast trawler" hull form- i.e. semiplaning and it is a bear in a following sea, not to mention getting pooped because of the low gunnells. But, it is what it is. It was made to go fishing in fair weather and get there fast. It does that very well. My Krogen has a nice rounded stern that gives lots of lift in a following sea and high gunnells that would be hard to poop. It has HUGE deck scuppers (4inches by 18 inches) just in case. It is a much safer boat. One thing about the Nordies that has bothered me was when they needed to modify the hull for a better engine fit. Seems like they called the addition "maintenance strakes" basically bulges on the hull. I am ok. with that but then they said that there testing showed an increase in fuel economy because of it. Good salesman, average I.Q. ???

PP

Peter Pisciotta

Mon, Mar 27, 2006 3:08 AM

One thing about
the Nordies that has
bothered me was when they
needed to modify the hull
for a better engine fit.
Seems like they called the
addition "maintenance
strakes" basically bulges
on the hull. I am ok. with that
but then they said
that there testing showed
an increase in fuel economy
because of it.

A few years ago, I had this exact conversation with
Jim Leishman, one of the owners of PAE/Nordhavn. He
replied that he too was surprised that tank testing
results indeed showed a very, very minor performance
improvement. He explained PAE never really emphasized
the claim except to counter the possible negative
perception that performance would be affected, a
pre-emptive marketing strike. Sounds reasonable to me

in the sailboat racing world, computer designed
underbodies are radically different than what
intuition suggested for generations which is one of
the reasons why John Alden's sleekly elegant designs
are relegated to half-hull wall models, not
competition.

Peter
www.SeaSkills.com

=======================
Peter Pisciotta
415-902-8439

> One thing about > the Nordies that has > bothered me was when they > needed to modify the hull > for a better engine fit. > Seems like they called the > addition "maintenance > strakes" basically bulges > on the hull. I am ok. with that > but then they said > that there testing showed > an increase in fuel economy > because of it. A few years ago, I had this exact conversation with Jim Leishman, one of the owners of PAE/Nordhavn. He replied that he too was surprised that tank testing results indeed showed a very, very minor performance improvement. He explained PAE never really emphasized the claim except to counter the possible negative perception that performance would be affected, a pre-emptive marketing strike. Sounds reasonable to me - in the sailboat racing world, computer designed underbodies are radically different than what intuition suggested for generations which is one of the reasons why John Alden's sleekly elegant designs are relegated to half-hull wall models, not competition. Peter www.SeaSkills.com ======================= Peter Pisciotta 415-902-8439

RR

Ron Rogers

Mon, Mar 27, 2006 3:22 AM

[OFFLIST]

Aren't the maintenance strakes kinda flat? Flat sections are faster.
Crealock told me that the Crealock 34 was faster than the 37 (mine) because
he put longer, flatter sections on the b ottom next to the keel. However, he
also said that my 37 would do better in rough seas.

Although ny 40 has a rounded stern, I wonder what impact the swim platform
will have in a big following sea? The worst she has seen is 4 foot waves on
top of 6 foot rollers on Chesapeake Bay. In theory, the Bay can only produce
4 foot waves, but they forgot about rollers. I guess that the platform cuts
into the waves and then they push against the rounded stern.

This Summer, I think the biggest hazard will be Lake Ontario, assuming I
don't goof on Albermarle Sound or the Jersey Coast.

Ron

[OFFLIST] Aren't the maintenance strakes kinda flat? Flat sections are faster. Crealock told me that the Crealock 34 was faster than the 37 (mine) because he put longer, flatter sections on the b ottom next to the keel. However, he also said that my 37 would do better in rough seas. Although ny 40 has a rounded stern, I wonder what impact the swim platform will have in a big following sea? The worst she has seen is 4 foot waves on top of 6 foot rollers on Chesapeake Bay. In theory, the Bay can only produce 4 foot waves, but they forgot about rollers. I guess that the platform cuts into the waves and then they push against the rounded stern. This Summer, I think the biggest hazard will be Lake Ontario, assuming I don't goof on Albermarle Sound or the Jersey Coast. Ron

PG

Patrick Gerety

Mon, Mar 27, 2006 3:29 AM

--- bob england bob_england@hotmail.com wrote:

My
Krogen has a nice rounded
stern that gives lots of lift in a following sea and
high gunnells that
would be hard to poop.

Then you must have a Krogen 54, the only Krogen I know
of with a rounded stern. As I recall there were only
8 or 9 of them built. Of all the Krogens, it is my
favorite.

Patrick
Willard 40PH
ALOHA
San Pedro
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

--- bob england <bob_england@hotmail.com> wrote: > My > Krogen has a nice rounded > stern that gives lots of lift in a following sea and > high gunnells that > would be hard to poop. Then you must have a Krogen 54, the only Krogen I know of with a rounded stern. As I recall there were only 8 or 9 of them built. Of all the Krogens, it is my favorite. Patrick Willard 40PH ALOHA San Pedro Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

RR

Ron Rogers

Mon, Mar 27, 2006 3:31 AM

Then again, maybe not. I'm going to sleep now! Ron

PG

Patrick Gerety

Mon, Mar 27, 2006 5:25 AM

--- Ron Rogers rcrogers6@kennett.net wrote:

Although ny 40 has a rounded stern, I wonder what
impact the swim platform
will have in a big following sea?

The swim platform will have a deleterious affect on
performance in large following seas. I wouldn't
recommend it on your boat. Water can catch under the
swim platform and tend to push the stern around. This
is one of the downsides to a rounded stern, difficulty
in adding a swim platform at the stern. Swim
platforms need to be designed very carefully for open
ocean boats. The integrated swim platforms seen on
some of the Nordhavn trawlers seem to work best. My
boat has a fold down swim platform on the center line
of the rounded stern that is integrated into the hull
shape, sort of like a passarelle (sp?) when extended.
Frankly, I rarely have a need to use it, we board from
either of the side gates. But it is up and out of the
way when underway and I don't ruin the view of that
pretty rounded "fantail" stern.

Patrick
Willard 40PH
ALOHA
San Pedro
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

--- Ron Rogers <rcrogers6@kennett.net> wrote: > > Although ny 40 has a rounded stern, I wonder what > impact the swim platform > will have in a big following sea? The swim platform will have a deleterious affect on performance in large following seas. I wouldn't recommend it on your boat. Water can catch under the swim platform and tend to push the stern around. This is one of the downsides to a rounded stern, difficulty in adding a swim platform at the stern. Swim platforms need to be designed very carefully for open ocean boats. The integrated swim platforms seen on some of the Nordhavn trawlers seem to work best. My boat has a fold down swim platform on the center line of the rounded stern that is integrated into the hull shape, sort of like a passarelle (sp?) when extended. Frankly, I rarely have a need to use it, we board from either of the side gates. But it is up and out of the way when underway and I don't ruin the view of that pretty rounded "fantail" stern. Patrick Willard 40PH ALOHA San Pedro Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

passagemaking@lists.trawlering.com

Round sterns/real trawlers