Empathy List Archives

Q

Quinces

Wed, Feb 20, 2013 11:24 AM

Healey, you say that a snubber and kellett are for different purposes.... “ Snubbers/bridles do not do the same job, and belong in an entirely different conversation.”
...but then say “Snubbers do add elasticity to the rode systems”
...after saying “The purpose of kellets is to add elasticity to the rode system”
( and lots of other good stuff too, thanks!)

First, I’m all chain on the main anchor and I always use a snubber, sometimes a bridle. I’ve never used a kellett but I understand the purpose. (adds weight, helps catenary...but only to a point!) And I’d like to have one if I was rigging for a good blow, might now look for some old anvils!)

But, in using a snubber, I believe I’m getting a big part of the benefit I would using a kellett. That’s the stretch in the snubber/bridle that keeps the chain from getting “bar tight”. (Or slows down and lessens the impact of the chain going bar tight, basically elasticity as a shock absorber) Even with a kellett, you reach the point where the system can go tight right?

If conditions are going to get rough, I use a longer snubber, which is a 50’ oversized line. This has worked so far and I’ve been tested in some nasty thunderstorms.

I’ve never rigged for a hurricane at anchor, but if I had to, I’d put out two anchors, all the chain I could and rig long lines on my all chain rode.

Although I’ve got a few years and miles logged, I’m still learning lessons daily as an amateur!! Thanks to all.
Jim
TWINS

Healey, you say that a snubber and kellett are for different purposes.... “ Snubbers/bridles do not do the same job, and belong in an entirely different conversation.” ...but then say “Snubbers do add elasticity to the rode systems” ...after saying “The purpose of kellets is to add elasticity to the rode system” ( and lots of other good stuff too, thanks!) >>>>>>>>>>>> First, I’m all chain on the main anchor and I always use a snubber, sometimes a bridle. I’ve never used a kellett but I understand the purpose. (adds weight, helps catenary...but only to a point!) And I’d like to have one if I was rigging for a good blow, might now look for some old anvils!) But, in using a snubber, I believe I’m getting a big part of the benefit I would using a kellett. That’s the stretch in the snubber/bridle that keeps the chain from getting “bar tight”. (Or slows down and lessens the impact of the chain going bar tight, basically elasticity as a shock absorber) Even with a kellett, you reach the point where the system can go tight right? If conditions are going to get rough, I use a longer snubber, which is a 50’ oversized line. This has worked so far and I’ve been tested in some nasty thunderstorms. I’ve never rigged for a hurricane at anchor, but if I had to, I’d put out two anchors, all the chain I could and rig long lines on my all chain rode. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Although I’ve got a few years and miles logged, I’m still learning lessons daily as an amateur!! Thanks to all. Jim TWINS

RY

Ralph Yost

Wed, Feb 20, 2013 11:44 AM

I don’t have a dog in this fight but I disagree technically with your statement below about the chain getting tight. You said
That’s the stretch in the snubber/bridle that keeps the chain from getting “bar tight”.

The snubber can not prevent the chain from getting tight. My understanding is that your snubber will not stretch until the chain gets tight. IF the forces on your boat don’t push it back enough to pull that chain tight, there is not enough stress on the snubber line to stretch it. Once the chain it tight, the snubber acts as an element of the anchoring rode IN LINE AND IN SERIES with the chain, hence the load it transmitted through the snubber.
If your chain is still lying on the bottom without stress, there will not be enough stress on the snubber to cause it to stretch.
R,

-----Original Message-----
From: Great-Loop [mailto:great-loop-bounces@lists.trawlering.com] On Behalf Of Quinces

But, in using a snubber, I believe I’m getting a big part of the benefit I would using a kellett. That’s the stretch in the snubber/bridle that keeps the chain from getting “bar tight”. (Or slows down and lessens the impact of the chain going bar tight, basically elasticity as a shock absorber) Even with a kellett, you reach the point where the system can go tight right?

If conditions are going to get rough, I use a longer snubber, which is a 50’ oversized line. This has worked so far and I’ve been tested in some nasty thunderstorms.

I don’t have a dog in this fight but I disagree technically with your statement below about the chain getting tight. You said That’s the stretch in the snubber/bridle that keeps the chain from getting “bar tight”. The snubber can not prevent the chain from getting tight. My understanding is that your snubber will not stretch until the chain gets tight. IF the forces on your boat don’t push it back enough to pull that chain tight, there is not enough stress on the snubber line to stretch it. Once the chain it tight, the snubber acts as an element of the anchoring rode IN LINE AND IN SERIES with the chain, hence the load it transmitted through the snubber. If your chain is still lying on the bottom without stress, there will not be enough stress on the snubber to cause it to stretch. R, -----Original Message----- From: Great-Loop [mailto:great-loop-bounces@lists.trawlering.com] On Behalf Of Quinces But, in using a snubber, I believe I’m getting a big part of the benefit I would using a kellett. That’s the stretch in the snubber/bridle that keeps the chain from getting “bar tight”. (Or slows down and lessens the impact of the chain going bar tight, basically elasticity as a shock absorber) Even with a kellett, you reach the point where the system can go tight right? If conditions are going to get rough, I use a longer snubber, which is a 50’ oversized line. This has worked so far and I’ve been tested in some nasty thunderstorms.

Q

Quinces

Wed, Feb 20, 2013 11:57 AM

Ralph, hopefully, it's not a fight!! I 'm assuming this discussion starts
with a load on the anchor, so no chain would be lying on the bottom.

there are two different lengths of the same chain rode, from anchor to
snubber connection, and from snubber connection to the bow. The first
length of chain gets tight, then the snubber to bow portion hangs and
tightens as the snubber takes on the load.

does that make sense?

-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph Yost
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 6:44 AM
To: 'Quinces' ; great-loop@lists.trawlering.com
Subject: RE: snubber vs kellett conversation

I don’t have a dog in this fight but I disagree technically with your
statement below about the chain getting tight. You said
That’s the stretch in the snubber/bridle that keeps the chain from getting
“bar tight”.

The snubber can not prevent the chain from getting tight. My understanding
is that your snubber will not stretch until the chain gets tight. IF the
forces on your boat don’t push it back enough to pull that chain tight,
there is not enough stress on the snubber line to stretch it. Once the chain
it tight, the snubber acts as an element of the anchoring rode IN LINE AND
IN SERIES with the chain, hence the load it transmitted through the snubber.
If your chain is still lying on the bottom without stress, there will not be
enough stress on the snubber to cause it to stretch.
R,

-----Original Message-----
From: Great-Loop [mailto:great-loop-bounces@lists.trawlering.com] On Behalf
Of Quinces

But, in using a snubber, I believe I’m getting a big part of the benefit I
would using a kellett. That’s the stretch in the snubber/bridle that keeps
the chain from getting “bar tight”. (Or slows down and lessens the impact
of the chain going bar tight, basically elasticity as a shock absorber)
Even with a kellett, you reach the point where the system can go tight
right?

If conditions are going to get rough, I use a longer snubber, which is a 50’
oversized line. This has worked so far and I’ve been tested in some nasty
thunderstorms.

Ralph, hopefully, it's not a fight!! I 'm assuming this discussion starts with a load on the anchor, so no chain would be lying on the bottom. there are two different lengths of the same chain rode, from anchor to snubber connection, and from snubber connection to the bow. The first length of chain gets tight, then the snubber to bow portion hangs and tightens as the snubber takes on the load. does that make sense? -----Original Message----- From: Ralph Yost Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 6:44 AM To: 'Quinces' ; great-loop@lists.trawlering.com Subject: RE: snubber vs kellett conversation I don’t have a dog in this fight but I disagree technically with your statement below about the chain getting tight. You said That’s the stretch in the snubber/bridle that keeps the chain from getting “bar tight”. The snubber can not prevent the chain from getting tight. My understanding is that your snubber will not stretch until the chain gets tight. IF the forces on your boat don’t push it back enough to pull that chain tight, there is not enough stress on the snubber line to stretch it. Once the chain it tight, the snubber acts as an element of the anchoring rode IN LINE AND IN SERIES with the chain, hence the load it transmitted through the snubber. If your chain is still lying on the bottom without stress, there will not be enough stress on the snubber to cause it to stretch. R, -----Original Message----- From: Great-Loop [mailto:great-loop-bounces@lists.trawlering.com] On Behalf Of Quinces But, in using a snubber, I believe I’m getting a big part of the benefit I would using a kellett. That’s the stretch in the snubber/bridle that keeps the chain from getting “bar tight”. (Or slows down and lessens the impact of the chain going bar tight, basically elasticity as a shock absorber) Even with a kellett, you reach the point where the system can go tight right? If conditions are going to get rough, I use a longer snubber, which is a 50’ oversized line. This has worked so far and I’ve been tested in some nasty thunderstorms.