5MHz ocxo
I've finally had chance to pull my Rapco 1804M GPS conditioned
oscillator apart to try to debug it.
To recap I bought this a few months ago from an ebay vendor. It was fine
at first (for a few hours) although I needed a better antenna or better
site for the one I have but the second chance I had to spend any time on
the antenna the 1804M itself decided to develop a fault running for a
few seconds then restarting the firmware.
It looks like the ocxo has died - pulling it from the unit and running
it stand alone produces a similar result, 10MHz output for a short
while, then it dies. Presumably this is related to the oven heating up
and a dry joint or something else that doesn't like getting warm/expanding.
The ocxo in the Rapco is an HCD-66-SC 5MHz 12V unit. They are completely
sealed and I doubt I could get into it without destroying it so repair
seems out of the question.
There is a UK supplier of HCD Research ocxo's and although the HCD-66 is
clearly obsolete, a current unit - the HCD-660 looks about the right
spec (http://www.golledge.com/docs/products/ocxos/hcd660.htm). However
I'm pretty certain that if I have to "request a quote" the price will be
beyond what I can afford to spend fixing the unit.
The only 5MHz ocxo available on fleabay is a Symmetricomunit but the
auction has no data on it, nor can I find any on the net. It's obvious
from the photos though that there are a couple of extra pins compared
with the HCD-66 so it wouldn't fit the PCB.
Does anyone know where I might be able to locate a suitable (used)
replacement?
How about a 10 MHz OCXO and a divide by two chip? Maybe an op-amp to
change and/or invert
the control voltage?
On 07/25/2012 02:05 PM, Paul Flinders wrote:
I've finally had chance to pull my Rapco 1804M GPS conditioned
oscillator apart to try to debug it.
To recap I bought this a few months ago from an ebay vendor. It was
fine at first (for a few hours) although I needed a better antenna or
better site for the one I have but the second chance I had to spend
any time on the antenna the 1804M itself decided to develop a fault
running for a few seconds then restarting the firmware.
It looks like the ocxo has died - pulling it from the unit and running
it stand alone produces a similar result, 10MHz output for a short
while, then it dies. Presumably this is related to the oven heating up
and a dry joint or something else that doesn't like getting
warm/expanding.
The ocxo in the Rapco is an HCD-66-SC 5MHz 12V unit. They are
completely sealed and I doubt I could get into it without destroying
it so repair seems out of the question.
There is a UK supplier of HCD Research ocxo's and although the HCD-66
is clearly obsolete, a current unit - the HCD-660 looks about the
right spec (http://www.golledge.com/docs/products/ocxos/hcd660.htm).
However I'm pretty certain that if I have to "request a quote" the
price will be beyond what I can afford to spend fixing the unit.
The only 5MHz ocxo available on fleabay is a Symmetricomunit but the
auction has no data on it, nor can I find any on the net. It's obvious
from the photos though that there are a couple of extra pins compared
with the HCD-66 so it wouldn't fit the PCB.
Does anyone know where I might be able to locate a suitable (used)
replacement?
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R caf@omen.com www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
Omen Technology Inc "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430
Can you post up a few pictures of the oscillator?
There have been people that have opened these up and repaired them. If you
feel not up to it, why not see if someone on this group can help.
Repairing it will eliminate a lot of searching.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Flinders" paul@flinders.org
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 5:05 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo
I've finally had chance to pull my Rapco 1804M GPS conditioned
oscillator apart to try to debug it.
To recap I bought this a few months ago from an ebay vendor. It was fine
at first (for a few hours) although I needed a better antenna or better
site for the one I have but the second chance I had to spend any time on
the antenna the 1804M itself decided to develop a fault running for a
few seconds then restarting the firmware.
It looks like the ocxo has died - pulling it from the unit and running
it stand alone produces a similar result, 10MHz output for a short
while, then it dies. Presumably this is related to the oven heating up
and a dry joint or something else that doesn't like getting warm/expanding.
The ocxo in the Rapco is an HCD-66-SC 5MHz 12V unit. They are completely
sealed and I doubt I could get into it without destroying it so repair
seems out of the question.
There is a UK supplier of HCD Research ocxo's and although the HCD-66 is
clearly obsolete, a current unit - the HCD-660 looks about the right
spec (http://www.golledge.com/docs/products/ocxos/hcd660.htm). However
I'm pretty certain that if I have to "request a quote" the price will be
beyond what I can afford to spend fixing the unit.
The only 5MHz ocxo available on fleabay is a Symmetricomunit but the
auction has no data on it, nor can I find any on the net. It's obvious
from the photos though that there are a couple of extra pins compared
with the HCD-66 so it wouldn't fit the PCB.
Does anyone know where I might be able to locate a suitable (used)
replacement?
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
This approach could also facilitate using a higher perfromance OCXO. This is after all time nuts (: I'm surprised to hear how few 5 Mhz OCXO's are avaliable on the bay right now. Earlier this year I picked up a nice Wenzel 5 Mhz OCXO for <$100.00
--- On Wed, 7/25/12, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R caf@omen.com wrote:
From: Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R caf@omen.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Received: Wednesday, July 25, 2012, 5:18 PM
How about a 10 MHz OCXO and a divide
by two chip? Maybe an op-amp to change
and/or invert
the control voltage?
On 07/25/2012 02:05 PM, Paul Flinders wrote:
I've finally had chance to pull my Rapco 1804M GPS
conditioned oscillator apart to try to debug it.
To recap I bought this a few months ago from an ebay
vendor. It was fine at first (for a few hours) although I
needed a better antenna or better site for the one I have
but the second chance I had to spend any time on the antenna
the 1804M itself decided to develop a fault running for a
few seconds then restarting the firmware.
It looks like the ocxo has died - pulling it from the
unit and running it stand alone produces a similar
result, 10MHz output for a short while, then it dies.
Presumably this is related to the oven heating up and a dry
joint or something else that doesn't like getting
warm/expanding.
The ocxo in the Rapco is an HCD-66-SC 5MHz 12V unit.
They are completely sealed and I doubt I could get into it
without destroying it so repair seems out of the question.
There is a UK supplier of HCD Research ocxo's and
although the HCD-66 is clearly obsolete, a current unit -
the HCD-660 looks about the right spec (http://www.golledge.com/docs/products/ocxos/hcd660.htm).
However I'm pretty certain that if I have to "request a
quote" the price will be beyond what I can afford to spend
fixing the unit.
The only 5MHz ocxo available on fleabay is a
Symmetricomunit but the auction has no data on it, nor can I
find any on the net. It's obvious from the photos though
that there are a couple of extra pins compared with the
HCD-66 so it wouldn't fit the PCB.
Does anyone know where I might be able to locate a
suitable (used) replacement?
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
-- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R caf@omen.com www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded
Applications
Omen Technology Inc "The High
Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR
97231 503-614-0430
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
I have an original that I could send to Dave at Artek for scanning. I don't
see it on his site.
I don't know what he will charge but usually it's very reasonable.
Regards,
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Miller" tmiller@skylinenet.net
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo
Can you post up a few pictures of the oscillator?
There have been people that have opened these up and repaired them. If you
feel not up to it, why not see if someone on this group can help.
Repairing it will eliminate a lot of searching.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Flinders" paul@flinders.org
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 5:05 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo
I've finally had chance to pull my Rapco 1804M GPS conditioned
oscillator apart to try to debug it.
To recap I bought this a few months ago from an ebay vendor. It was fine
at first (for a few hours) although I needed a better antenna or better
site for the one I have but the second chance I had to spend any time on
the antenna the 1804M itself decided to develop a fault running for a
few seconds then restarting the firmware.
It looks like the ocxo has died - pulling it from the unit and running
it stand alone produces a similar result, 10MHz output for a short
while, then it dies. Presumably this is related to the oven heating up
and a dry joint or something else that doesn't like getting warm/expanding.
The ocxo in the Rapco is an HCD-66-SC 5MHz 12V unit. They are completely
sealed and I doubt I could get into it without destroying it so repair
seems out of the question.
There is a UK supplier of HCD Research ocxo's and although the HCD-66 is
clearly obsolete, a current unit - the HCD-660 looks about the right
spec (http://www.golledge.com/docs/products/ocxos/hcd660.htm). However
I'm pretty certain that if I have to "request a quote" the price will be
beyond what I can afford to spend fixing the unit.
The only 5MHz ocxo available on fleabay is a Symmetricomunit but the
auction has no data on it, nor can I find any on the net. It's obvious
from the photos though that there are a couple of extra pins compared
with the HCD-66 so it wouldn't fit the PCB.
Does anyone know where I might be able to locate a suitable (used)
replacement?
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
On 25/07/12 22:27, Tom Miller wrote:
Can you post up a few pictures of the oscillator?
There have been people that have opened these up and repaired them. If
you feel not up to it, why not see if someone on this group can help.
Repairing it will eliminate a lot of searching.
Pictures at
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1000981.jpg
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1000982.jpg
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1000983.jpg
Apologies for slightly poor quality.
It's fully soldered at the base - possibly wasn't done in one go but I
suspect would all have to be heated to get it apart - I have an SMD
style hot air gun but it couldn't tackle that job.
If anyone is able to repair it I'd certainly be interested.
And should you decide to upgrade, I have two Austron 1250A standards, (which
contain a 5 MHz OCXO), unused in original boxes, with service manual, for
sale at just $500 each. The voltage control is +/- 5 VDC.
I'm avoiding the fleabag site unless necessary...
-Doug Ronald
AE6SY
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Mark Spencer
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 2:49 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo
This approach could also facilitate using a higher perfromance OCXO. This
is after all time nuts (: I'm surprised to hear how few 5 Mhz OCXO's are
avaliable on the bay right now. Earlier this year I picked up a nice
Wenzel 5 Mhz OCXO for <$100.00
--- On Wed, 7/25/12, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R caf@omen.com wrote:
From: Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R caf@omen.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Received: Wednesday, July 25, 2012, 5:18 PM How about a 10 MHz OCXO
and a divide by two chip? Maybe an op-amp to change and/or invert
the control voltage?
On 07/25/2012 02:05 PM, Paul Flinders wrote:
I've finally had chance to pull my Rapco 1804M GPS
conditioned oscillator apart to try to debug it.
To recap I bought this a few months ago from an ebay
vendor. It was fine at first (for a few hours) although I needed a
better antenna or better site for the one I have but the second chance
I had to spend any time on the antenna the 1804M itself decided to
develop a fault running for a few seconds then restarting the
firmware.
It looks like the ocxo has died - pulling it from the
unit and running it stand alone produces a similar result, 10MHz
output for a short while, then it dies.
Presumably this is related to the oven heating up and a dry joint or
something else that doesn't like getting warm/expanding.
The ocxo in the Rapco is an HCD-66-SC 5MHz 12V unit.
They are completely sealed and I doubt I could get into it without
destroying it so repair seems out of the question.
There is a UK supplier of HCD Research ocxo's and
although the HCD-66 is clearly obsolete, a current unit - the HCD-660
looks about the right spec
However I'm pretty certain that if I have to "request a quote" the
price will be beyond what I can afford to spend fixing the unit.
The only 5MHz ocxo available on fleabay is a
Symmetricomunit but the auction has no data on it, nor can I find any
on the net. It's obvious from the photos though that there are a
couple of extra pins compared with the
HCD-66 so it wouldn't fit the PCB.
Does anyone know where I might be able to locate a
suitable (used) replacement?
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
-- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R caf@omen.com www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
Omen Technology Inc "The High
Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR
97231 503-614-0430
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
On 25/07/12 22:18, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R wrote:
How about a 10 MHz OCXO and a divide by two chip? Maybe an op-amp to
change and/or invert
the control voltage?
Yes I've thought about that. In fact it might be the better way to go as
10MHz output would definitely be more useful.
I need to trace out the circuit to see what happens to the 5MHz signal
on its way to the rear BNC and also on its way to the logic circuits to
see if I could get a divider in there at the right point to send 5MHz to
the logic and 10MHz on the rear BNC.
As you suggest the easiest is if I can find a unit with a similar
control voltage range (0.5 to 7V and approx +/- 1 in 10^7 adjustment).
Hi
That's just a basic solder sealed package. It should be pretty easy to pop open. You'll use up a bit of solder wick doing it…
Bob
On Jul 25, 2012, at 6:03 PM, Paul Flinders wrote:
On 25/07/12 22:18, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R wrote:
How about a 10 MHz OCXO and a divide by two chip? Maybe an op-amp to change and/or invert
the control voltage?
Yes I've thought about that. In fact it might be the better way to go as 10MHz output would definitely be more useful.
I need to trace out the circuit to see what happens to the 5MHz signal on its way to the rear BNC and also on its way to the logic circuits to see if I could get a divider in there at the right point to send 5MHz to the logic and 10MHz on the rear BNC.
As you suggest the easiest is if I can find a unit with a similar control voltage range (0.5 to 7V and approx +/- 1 in 10^7 adjustment).
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
On 25/07/12 22:49, Mark Spencer wrote:
This approach could also facilitate using a higher perfromance OCXO. This is after all time nuts (: I'm surprised to hear how few 5 Mhz OCXO's are avaliable on the bay right now. Earlier this year I picked up a nice Wenzel 5 Mhz OCXO for<$100.00
Do you have any suggestions for a higher spec unit?
Basic spec seems to be +/- 2 in 10^10 drift/day and < 2 in 10^9
variation over its specified temperature range.
On 25/07/12 23:10, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
That's just a basic solder sealed package. It should be pretty easy to pop open. You'll use up a bit of solder wick doing it…
If there's anyone in the UK who has experience with these let me know if
you're willing to have a go.
If not I suppose I can't loose much - it's bust anyway :-/
Hi
There are a bunch of Morion OCXO's on eBay. You may or may not get a good one, but the price is right. Most of them are significantly better than what you have now.
Bob
On Jul 25, 2012, at 6:14 PM, Paul Flinders wrote:
On 25/07/12 22:49, Mark Spencer wrote:
This approach could also facilitate using a higher perfromance OCXO. This is after all time nuts (: I'm surprised to hear how few 5 Mhz OCXO's are avaliable on the bay right now. Earlier this year I picked up a nice Wenzel 5 Mhz OCXO for<$100.00
Do you have any suggestions for a higher spec unit?
Basic spec seems to be +/- 2 in 10^10 drift/day and < 2 in 10^9 variation over its specified temperature range.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
On 25/07/12 23:19, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
There are a bunch of Morion OCXO's on eBay. You may or may not get a good one, but the price is right. Most of them are significantly better than what you have now.
I suppose that the argument is that the GPS keeps the frequency to much
tighter limits than the "raw" oscillator. The Morion units look
interesting and cheap enough to pick one up anyway - one minor grumble
is that the position of the Vref/Vin pins seems swapped compared with
the HCD one.
Yep... If you are prepared to go with a 10 Mhz OCXO and want to keep the costs down the Morion units are worth looking at. I picked up two of them earlier this year. I was pleasantly surprised at the performance. I don't recall the spec's off hand but at least one of the vendors has an online data sheet.
I'd be inclined to spend some time hunting down a 5 Mhz OCXO vs using a divider though.
--- On Wed, 7/25/12, Bob Camp lists@rtty.us wrote:
From: Bob Camp lists@rtty.us
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
Received: Wednesday, July 25, 2012, 6:19 PM
Hi
There are a bunch of Morion OCXO's on eBay. You may or
may not get a good one, but the price is right. Most of them
are significantly better than what you have now.
Bob
On Jul 25, 2012, at 6:14 PM, Paul Flinders wrote:
On 25/07/12 22:49, Mark Spencer wrote:
This approach could also facilitate using a higher
perfromance OCXO. This is after all time nuts
(: I'm surprised to hear how few 5 Mhz
OCXO's are avaliable on the bay right
now. Earlier this year I picked up a nice
Wenzel 5 Mhz OCXO for<$100.00
Do you have any suggestions for a higher spec unit?
Basic spec seems to be +/- 2 in 10^10 drift/day and
< 2 in 10^9 variation over its specified temperature
range.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
On 25/07/12 23:27, Mark Spencer wrote:
Yep... If you are prepared to go with a 10 Mhz OCXO and want to keep the costs down the Morion units are worth looking at. I picked up two of them earlier this year. I was pleasantly surprised at the performance. I don't recall the spec's off hand but at least one of the vendors has an online data sheet.
I'd be inclined to spend some time hunting down a 5 Mhz OCXO vs using a divider though.
Agreed, though Bob has me almost thinking I might try opening the bust
one after all.
Take another look at flea bay. If you search for < "5 mhz" oscillator >
and weed out the trash there are a few decent looking units.
As for repairing the original, go for it. You can't make it any worse.
I would use a utility knife to scrape away as much solder as possible
but don't use the sharp edge of the blade, use the back of the sharp
edge so that it cuts more like a cutter on a lathe or milling machine.
Once you've got the excess out of the road, my tool of choice is a
micro-torch. Pre-heating with a heat gun might be a good idea, too. If
you search the archives you'll find more ideas on opening these things.
Ed
On 7/25/2012 3:05 PM, Paul Flinders wrote:
I've finally had chance to pull my Rapco 1804M GPS conditioned
oscillator apart to try to debug it.
To recap I bought this a few months ago from an ebay vendor. It was
fine at first (for a few hours) although I needed a better antenna or
better site for the one I have but the second chance I had to spend
any time on the antenna the 1804M itself decided to develop a fault
running for a few seconds then restarting the firmware.
It looks like the ocxo has died - pulling it from the unit and running
it stand alone produces a similar result, 10MHz output for a short
while, then it dies. Presumably this is related to the oven heating up
and a dry joint or something else that doesn't like getting
warm/expanding.
The ocxo in the Rapco is an HCD-66-SC 5MHz 12V unit. They are
completely sealed and I doubt I could get into it without destroying
it so repair seems out of the question.
There is a UK supplier of HCD Research ocxo's and although the HCD-66
is clearly obsolete, a current unit - the HCD-660 looks about the
right spec (http://www.golledge.com/docs/products/ocxos/hcd660.htm).
However I'm pretty certain that if I have to "request a quote" the
price will be beyond what I can afford to spend fixing the unit.
The only 5MHz ocxo available on fleabay is a Symmetricomunit but the
auction has no data on it, nor can I find any on the net. It's obvious
from the photos though that there are a couple of extra pins compared
with the HCD-66 so it wouldn't fit the PCB.
Does anyone know where I might be able to locate a suitable (used)
replacement?
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Make up an adapter board with the divide by two under the Morion oscillator.
Make the correct pin out on the board.
Those units are very nice for the money. You might get a bad one though.
They have an issue with a SMT capacitor on many of them. But again, many
have opened them up for repair.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Flinders" paul@flinders.org
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo
On 25/07/12 23:19, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
There are a bunch of Morion OCXO's on eBay. You may or may not get a good
one, but the price is right. Most of them are significantly better than
what you have now.
I suppose that the argument is that the GPS keeps the frequency to much
tighter limits than the "raw" oscillator. The Morion units look
interesting and cheap enough to pick one up anyway - one minor grumble
is that the position of the Vref/Vin pins seems swapped compared with
the HCD one.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Hi:
If you want to de-solder the case, I have had success taking some #12 or
#14 bare copper wire ( standard solid conductor house-wiring stripped of
the PVC insulation ) and wrapping it tightly around the base just above
the soldered junction. The wire is installed in my soldering gun just
like a new soldering gun tip. Add just a little solder to help in heat
transfer. Be careful as it will get really hot. I hold the top with a
weird set of very long needle nose pliers. They are small enough that
they don't act like much of a heatsink. You could fabricate one out of
wood. They would be disposable.
I hope this helps,
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Paul Flinders
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 2:59 PM
To: Tom Miller; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo
On 25/07/12 22:27, Tom Miller wrote:
Can you post up a few pictures of the oscillator?
There have been people that have opened these up and repaired them. If
you feel not up to it, why not see if someone on this group can help.
Repairing it will eliminate a lot of searching.
Pictures at
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1000981.jpg
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1000982.jpg
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1000983.jpg
Apologies for slightly poor quality.
It's fully soldered at the base - possibly wasn't done in one go but I
suspect would all have to be heated to get it apart - I have an SMD
style hot air gun but it couldn't tackle that job.
If anyone is able to repair it I'd certainly be interested.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
I haven't heard of that trick before, but it sounds interesting. What's
the wattage of your soldering gun?
Ed
On 7/25/2012 6:41 PM, Ron Ward wrote:
Hi:
If you want to de-solder the case, I have had success taking some #12 or
#14 bare copper wire ( standard solid conductor house-wiring stripped of
the PVC insulation ) and wrapping it tightly around the base just above
the soldered junction. The wire is installed in my soldering gun just
like a new soldering gun tip. Add just a little solder to help in heat
transfer. Be careful as it will get really hot. I hold the top with a
weird set of very long needle nose pliers. They are small enough that
they don't act like much of a heatsink. You could fabricate one out of
wood. They would be disposable.
I hope this helps,
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Paul Flinders
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 2:59 PM
To: Tom Miller; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo
On 25/07/12 22:27, Tom Miller wrote:
Can you post up a few pictures of the oscillator?
There have been people that have opened these up and repaired them. If
you feel not up to it, why not see if someone on this group can help.
Repairing it will eliminate a lot of searching.
Pictures at
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1000981.jpg
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1000982.jpg
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1000983.jpg
Apologies for slightly poor quality.
It's fully soldered at the base - possibly wasn't done in one go but I
suspect would all have to be heated to get it apart - I have an SMD
style hot air gun but it couldn't tackle that job.
If anyone is able to repair it I'd certainly be interested.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Hi:
I have two. Both are made by Weller. The first one is rated for 100/140
Watts and works well for disassembling soldered HC-6U crystals without
damaging them. The second one is at least 250 watts maybe as high as 300
Watts. It is old and the label is missing. It has two lamps for
illumination. I feel that if you make the wire tight aginst the solder
area of the case that the 100/140 watt gun would work okay. Be sure to
tin all of the contact area of the wire that is wrapped around the
case's soldered junction. The non-contact area of the wire may be left
to oxidize and will act like an insulator making the tined area hotter.
Fresh rosin core solder is easier to work with. Solder braid is also
very helpful to clean up the groove after the top of the case comes off.
Be sure to ware safety glasses or goggles. Not much solder is released
but I wouldn't take any chances!
Also you might try both #12 and #14 as I don't know the current rating
of your soldering gun. The resistance of going to #12 wire is
compensated by the longer length for larger cases. I have never tried
Chip Quick but it could also be helpful. You could have a friend preheat
the case with a large soldering iron if extra heat is required. I like
the soldering gun because it makes for a nice clean job when finished.
You will want to work fast so as not to heat damage the oscillator's
components.
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Ed Palmer
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 8:28 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo
I haven't heard of that trick before, but it sounds interesting. What's
the wattage of your soldering gun?
Ed
On 7/25/2012 6:41 PM, Ron Ward wrote:
Hi:
If you want to de-solder the case, I have had success taking some #12
or
#14 bare copper wire ( standard solid conductor house-wiring stripped
of
the PVC insulation ) and wrapping it tightly around the base just
above
the soldered junction. The wire is installed in my soldering gun just
like a new soldering gun tip. Add just a little solder to help in heat
transfer. Be careful as it will get really hot. I hold the top with a
weird set of very long needle nose pliers. They are small enough that
they don't act like much of a heatsink. You could fabricate one out of
wood. They would be disposable.
I hope this helps,
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com]
On
Behalf Of Paul Flinders
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 2:59 PM
To: Tom Miller; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo
On 25/07/12 22:27, Tom Miller wrote:
Can you post up a few pictures of the oscillator?
There have been people that have opened these up and repaired them.
If
you feel not up to it, why not see if someone on this group can help.
Repairing it will eliminate a lot of searching.
Pictures at
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1000981.jpg
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1000982.jpg
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1000983.jpg
Apologies for slightly poor quality.
It's fully soldered at the base - possibly wasn't done in one go but I
suspect would all have to be heated to get it apart - I have an SMD
style hot air gun but it couldn't tackle that job.
If anyone is able to repair it I'd certainly be interested.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
On 25/07/12 23:36, Ed Palmer wrote:
Take another look at flea bay. If you search for < "5 mhz" oscillator
and weed out the trash there are a few decent looking units.
I had searched for 5MHz ocxo which is why I didn't see the ones you
found. Having said that the result is slightly frustrating as, although
there are a few 5MHz ocxo's in the list none will fit the case which is
only 1U
As for repairing the original, go for it. You can't make it any
worse. I would use a utility knife to scrape away as much solder as
possible but don't use the sharp edge of the blade, use the back of
the sharp edge so that it cuts more like a cutter on a lathe or
milling machine. Once you've got the excess out of the road, my tool
of choice is a micro-torch. Pre-heating with a heat gun might be a
good idea, too. If you search the archives you'll find more ideas on
opening these things.
Thanks I'll have a look
On 25/07/12 23:10, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
That's just a basic solder sealed package. It should be pretty easy to pop open. You'll use up a bit of solder wick doing it…
I'm still sort-of hoping someone with experience will offer but I'm
leaning towards having a go at some point.
My natural reaction would be that solder wick will never clear the
solder which has been sucked deep into the joint by capillary action.
The case/base look to be a pretty tight fit even without the solder.
Is it possible to clear all the solder just with solder wick or do you
have some technique to get the last bit out? Do you ultimately need to
heat the whole of the length of the seam simultaneously to get it apart?
I'm not the original poster with the dead oscillator, but I have done
this in the past ( and will again in the future, I'm sure). I'm
definitely going to try this idea. I have both models of soldering gun
as well. The bigger one is Model D550 and is rated at 200/260 watts. I
think that's the one to use. As you say, you want to work fast and the
larger one will do that. I'm a little surprised that wrapping the wire
around a metal case and using solder to improve the heat transfer
doesn't more or less short out the loop and reduce the heat generated on
the side of the loop opposite to the connection points.
Ed
On 7/25/2012 11:55 PM, Ron Ward wrote:
Hi:
I have two. Both are made by Weller. The first one is rated for 100/140
Watts and works well for disassembling soldered HC-6U crystals without
damaging them. The second one is at least 250 watts maybe as high as 300
Watts. It is old and the label is missing. It has two lamps for
illumination. I feel that if you make the wire tight aginst the solder
area of the case that the 100/140 watt gun would work okay. Be sure to
tin all of the contact area of the wire that is wrapped around the
case's soldered junction. The non-contact area of the wire may be left
to oxidize and will act like an insulator making the tined area hotter.
Fresh rosin core solder is easier to work with. Solder braid is also
very helpful to clean up the groove after the top of the case comes off.
Be sure to ware safety glasses or goggles. Not much solder is released
but I wouldn't take any chances!
Also you might try both #12 and #14 as I don't know the current rating
of your soldering gun. The resistance of going to #12 wire is
compensated by the longer length for larger cases. I have never tried
Chip Quick but it could also be helpful. You could have a friend preheat
the case with a large soldering iron if extra heat is required. I like
the soldering gun because it makes for a nice clean job when finished.
You will want to work fast so as not to heat damage the oscillator's
components.
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Ed Palmer
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 8:28 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo
I haven't heard of that trick before, but it sounds interesting. What's
the wattage of your soldering gun?
Ed
On 7/25/2012 6:41 PM, Ron Ward wrote:
Hi:
If you want to de-solder the case, I have had success taking some #12 or #14 bare copper wire ( standard solid conductor house-wiring stripped of the PVC insulation ) and wrapping it tightly around the base just above the soldered junction. The wire is installed in my soldering gun just like a new soldering gun tip. Add just a little solder to help in heat transfer. Be careful as it will get really hot. I hold the top with a weird set of very long needle nose pliers. They are small enough that they don't act like much of a heatsink. You could fabricate one out of wood. They would be disposable.
I hope this helps,
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com]
On Behalf Of Paul Flinders
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 2:59 PM
To: Tom Miller; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo
On 25/07/12 22:27, Tom Miller wrote:
Can you post up a few pictures of the oscillator?
There have been people that have opened these up and repaired them. If you feel not up to it, why not see if someone on this group can help.
Repairing it will eliminate a lot of searching.
Pictures at
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1000981.jpg
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1000982.jpg
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1000983.jpg
Apologies for slightly poor quality.
It's fully soldered at the base - possibly wasn't done in one go but I
suspect would all have to be heated to get it apart - I have an SMD
style hot air gun but it couldn't tackle that job.
If anyone is able to repair it I'd certainly be interested.
Hi,
Note that the 1804M, also has a 1PPS output. This is coming directly from
the GPS module 1PPS. The Trimble SV6 module I have in my units is only
good to 1us, almost a 1000 times worse than a Tbolt. I am not sure if the
SV6 has a "sawtooth" error message giving a good estimate on how wrong the
current 1PPS pulse is/was. However improving the 1PPS output accuracy and
jitter could for some uses be a useful mod.
--
Björn
On 25/07/12 23:36, Ed Palmer wrote:
Take another look at flea bay. If you search for < "5 mhz" oscillator
and weed out the trash there are a few decent looking units.
I had searched for 5MHz ocxo which is why I didn't see the ones you
found. Having said that the result is slightly frustrating as, although
there are a few 5MHz ocxo's in the list none will fit the case which is
only 1U
As for repairing the original, go for it. You can't make it any
worse. I would use a utility knife to scrape away as much solder as
possible but don't use the sharp edge of the blade, use the back of
the sharp edge so that it cuts more like a cutter on a lathe or
milling machine. Once you've got the excess out of the road, my tool
of choice is a micro-torch. Pre-heating with a heat gun might be a
good idea, too. If you search the archives you'll find more ideas on
opening these things.
Thanks I'll have a look
On Wed, July 25, 2012 10:05 pm, Paul Flinders wrote:
There is a UK supplier of HCD Research ocxo's and although the HCD-66 is
clearly obsolete, a current unit - the HCD-660 looks about the right spec
(http://www.golledge.com/docs/products/ocxos/hcd660.htm). However
I'm pretty certain that if I have to "request a quote" the price will be
beyond what I can afford to spend fixing the unit.
Well, I was correct about that - GBP 450 (about USD 700) for a new one.
Hi ED:
Good point but I guess that it's all resistance heating and copper is
about 10 times more conductive than steel and the contact surface area
is quite small. Anyway, it has worked for me several times in the past.
I did a search at the ARRL website on crystal grinding and found two
articles that may interest you!
QST July 1963 page 75 "Removing Hermetically-Sealed Crystals" and
QST March 1963 pages 30,31 "Grinding Surplus Hermetically sealed
Crystals".
I didn't know that these articles existed until I did the search. Talk
about re-inventing the wheel!
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Ed Palmer
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 12:43 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo
I'm not the original poster with the dead oscillator, but I have done
this in the past ( and will again in the future, I'm sure). I'm
definitely going to try this idea. I have both models of soldering gun
as well. The bigger one is Model D550 and is rated at 200/260 watts. I
think that's the one to use. As you say, you want to work fast and the
larger one will do that. I'm a little surprised that wrapping the wire
around a metal case and using solder to improve the heat transfer
doesn't more or less short out the loop and reduce the heat generated on
the side of the loop opposite to the connection points.
Ed
On 7/25/2012 11:55 PM, Ron Ward wrote:
Hi:
I have two. Both are made by Weller. The first one is rated for
100/140
Watts and works well for disassembling soldered HC-6U crystals without
damaging them. The second one is at least 250 watts maybe as high as
300
Watts. It is old and the label is missing. It has two lamps for
illumination. I feel that if you make the wire tight aginst the solder
area of the case that the 100/140 watt gun would work okay. Be sure to
tin all of the contact area of the wire that is wrapped around the
case's soldered junction. The non-contact area of the wire may be left
to oxidize and will act like an insulator making the tined area
hotter.
Fresh rosin core solder is easier to work with. Solder braid is also
very helpful to clean up the groove after the top of the case comes
off.
Be sure to ware safety glasses or goggles. Not much solder is released
but I wouldn't take any chances!
Also you might try both #12 and #14 as I don't know the current rating
of your soldering gun. The resistance of going to #12 wire is
compensated by the longer length for larger cases. I have never tried
Chip Quick but it could also be helpful. You could have a friend
preheat
the case with a large soldering iron if extra heat is required. I like
the soldering gun because it makes for a nice clean job when finished.
You will want to work fast so as not to heat damage the oscillator's
components.
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com]
On
Behalf Of Ed Palmer
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 8:28 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo
I haven't heard of that trick before, but it sounds interesting.
What's
the wattage of your soldering gun?
Ed
On 7/25/2012 6:41 PM, Ron Ward wrote:
Hi:
If you want to de-solder the case, I have had success taking some #12
or #14 bare copper wire ( standard solid conductor house-wiring stripped
of the PVC insulation ) and wrapping it tightly around the base just
above the soldered junction. The wire is installed in my soldering gun
just like a new soldering gun tip. Add just a little solder to help in
heat transfer. Be careful as it will get really hot. I hold the top with
a weird set of very long needle nose pliers. They are small enough that
they don't act like much of a heatsink. You could fabricate one out of
wood. They would be disposable.
I hope this helps,
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com]
On Behalf Of Paul Flinders
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 2:59 PM
To: Tom Miller; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo
On 25/07/12 22:27, Tom Miller wrote:
Can you post up a few pictures of the oscillator?
There have been people that have opened these up and repaired them.
If you feel not up to it, why not see if someone on this group can help.
Repairing it will eliminate a lot of searching.
Pictures at
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1000981.jpg
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1000982.jpg
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1000983.jpg
Apologies for slightly poor quality.
It's fully soldered at the base - possibly wasn't done in one go but
I
suspect would all have to be heated to get it apart - I have an SMD
style hot air gun but it couldn't tackle that job.
If anyone is able to repair it I'd certainly be interested.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
"Everything old is new again."
Now that I think about it, maybe the added solder is helping by doing
more than just transfer the heat. As the current, which is at least 100
amps, spreads from the copper to the solder, the solder will heat up
which is exactly what we want.
Ed
On 7/26/2012 9:19 AM, Ron Ward wrote:
Hi ED:
Good point but I guess that it's all resistance heating and copper is
about 10 times more conductive than steel and the contact surface area
is quite small. Anyway, it has worked for me several times in the past.
I did a search at the ARRL website on crystal grinding and found two
articles that may interest you!
QST July 1963 page 75 "Removing Hermetically-Sealed Crystals" and
QST March 1963 pages 30,31 "Grinding Surplus Hermetically sealed
Crystals".
I didn't know that these articles existed until I did the search. Talk
about re-inventing the wheel!
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Ed Palmer
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 12:43 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo
I'm not the original poster with the dead oscillator, but I have done
this in the past ( and will again in the future, I'm sure). I'm
definitely going to try this idea. I have both models of soldering gun
as well. The bigger one is Model D550 and is rated at 200/260 watts. I
think that's the one to use. As you say, you want to work fast and the
larger one will do that. I'm a little surprised that wrapping the wire
around a metal case and using solder to improve the heat transfer
doesn't more or less short out the loop and reduce the heat generated on
the side of the loop opposite to the connection points.
Ed
On 7/25/2012 11:55 PM, Ron Ward wrote:
Hi:
I have two. Both are made by Weller. The first one is rated for
100/140
Watts and works well for disassembling soldered HC-6U crystals without
damaging them. The second one is at least 250 watts maybe as high as
300
Watts. It is old and the label is missing. It has two lamps for
illumination. I feel that if you make the wire tight aginst the solder
area of the case that the 100/140 watt gun would work okay. Be sure to
tin all of the contact area of the wire that is wrapped around the
case's soldered junction. The non-contact area of the wire may be left
to oxidize and will act like an insulator making the tined area
hotter.
Fresh rosin core solder is easier to work with. Solder braid is also
very helpful to clean up the groove after the top of the case comes
off.
Be sure to ware safety glasses or goggles. Not much solder is released
but I wouldn't take any chances!
Also you might try both #12 and #14 as I don't know the current rating
of your soldering gun. The resistance of going to #12 wire is
compensated by the longer length for larger cases. I have never tried
Chip Quick but it could also be helpful. You could have a friend
preheat
the case with a large soldering iron if extra heat is required. I like
the soldering gun because it makes for a nice clean job when finished.
You will want to work fast so as not to heat damage the oscillator's
components.
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com]
On
Behalf Of Ed Palmer
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 8:28 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo
I haven't heard of that trick before, but it sounds interesting.
What's
the wattage of your soldering gun?
Ed
On 7/25/2012 6:41 PM, Ron Ward wrote:
Hi:
If you want to de-solder the case, I have had success taking some #12
or #14 bare copper wire ( standard solid conductor house-wiring stripped
of the PVC insulation ) and wrapping it tightly around the base just
above the soldered junction. The wire is installed in my soldering gun
just like a new soldering gun tip. Add just a little solder to help in
heat transfer. Be careful as it will get really hot. I hold the top with
a weird set of very long needle nose pliers. They are small enough that
they don't act like much of a heatsink. You could fabricate one out of
wood. They would be disposable.
I hope this helps,
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com]
On Behalf Of Paul Flinders
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 2:59 PM
To: Tom Miller; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo
On 25/07/12 22:27, Tom Miller wrote:
Can you post up a few pictures of the oscillator?
There have been people that have opened these up and repaired them.
If you feel not up to it, why not see if someone on this group can help.
Repairing it will eliminate a lot of searching.
Pictures at
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1000981.jpg
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1000982.jpg
http://www.wild-pc.co.uk/images/P1000983.jpg
Apologies for slightly poor quality.
It's fully soldered at the base - possibly wasn't done in one go but
I
suspect would all have to be heated to get it apart - I have an SMD
style hot air gun but it couldn't tackle that job.
If anyone is able to repair it I'd certainly be interested.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
On 25/07/12 22:18, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R wrote:
How about a 10 MHz OCXO and a divide by two chip? Maybe an op-amp to
change and/or invert
the control voltage?
In the end that's exactly what I did.
Details on eevblog -
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects-designs-and-technical-stuff/rapco-1804m-repair-10mhz-conversionbodge-(-teardown)/
Found a 10MHz ocxo which seems to have very similar specs to the 10Mhz
1804Ms running without GPS and dropped that in.
There's a handy 22ohm damping resistor in the track which takes the 5MHz
round to the logic so lifting that allows one to insert a divide by two
bodge, leaving 10MHz at the rear BNC. Didn't have too many problems
achieving "fine" control for the oscillator - took about 24 hours,
although I did tweak the DAC output manually to be in the right ball
park - it needed quite a large shift & I wasn't sure whether the
firmware would make such a large correction, or take a very long time to
do it.