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MB

Michael Beason

Fri, Jan 10, 2020 6:00 PM

Members of my City Council often attend an annual event in Washington, D.C. known as the Quail Breakfast. It is possible, based upon attendance, that a quorum will be present. Some of the meetings are open to the public while others are, by necessity or nature, closed meetings. My thoughts are as follows:

For all open meetings post and publish a notice of possible quorum indicating that no votes or action will be taken. For the meetings that will be closed place this matter before Council on an agenda prior to the event and have Council decide, in an open meeting, which Council members will attend the private meetings, ensuring that member attendance of the closed meetings will be, at all times, less than a quorum.

I am interested and seek thoughts and possible, legal pitfalls and recommendations to avoid the pitfalls.

Thank you.

Members of my City Council often attend an annual event in Washington, D.C. known as the Quail Breakfast. It is possible, based upon attendance, that a quorum will be present. Some of the meetings are open to the public while others are, by necessity or nature, closed meetings. My thoughts are as follows: For all open meetings post and publish a notice of possible quorum indicating that no votes or action will be taken. For the meetings that will be closed place this matter before Council on an agenda prior to the event and have Council decide, in an open meeting, which Council members will attend the private meetings, ensuring that member attendance of the closed meetings will be, at all times, less than a quorum. I am interested and seek thoughts and possible, legal pitfalls and recommendations to avoid the pitfalls. Thank you.

DD

david davis

Fri, Jan 10, 2020 6:09 PM

The open meeting act states all meetings shall be at reasonably convenient locations to public. A quorum at a meeting in DC would arguably violate this provision.

klahoma Open Meeting Act
[http://www.oscn.net/Images/Applications/search/WDDocument.gif] Section 303 - Times and Places - Advance Notice
Cite as: O.S. §, __ __

All meetings of public bodies, as defined hereinafter, shall be held at specified times and places which are convenient to the public and shall be open to the public, except as hereinafter specifically provided. All meetings of such public bodies, except for executive sessions of the State Banking Board and Oklahoma Savings and Loan Board, shall be preceded by advance public notice specifying the time and place of each such meeting to be convened as well as the subject matter or matters to be considered at such meeting, as hereinafter provided.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This transmission is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sections 2510-2521 and intended to be delivered only to the named addressee(s) This e-mail message is intended only for the personal use of the recipient(s) named above. This message is or may be an attorney-client communication and as such privileged and confidential. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, copy or distribute this message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the original message.

s/ David A. Davis
LAW OFFICE OF DAVID A. DAVIS
4312 N. Classen Blvd.
OKLAHOMA CITY, OK 73118
405 840-6353
405 557-0777 (FAX)
ddavislaw@live.com mailto:ddavislaw@live.com

From: Oama oama-bounces@lists.imla.org on behalf of Michael Beason mbeason@altusok.gov
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 12:00 PM
To: OAMA luistserv (OAMA@lists.imla.org) OAMA@lists.imla.org
Subject: [Oama] Meetings of the City Council Outside of the City Limits

Members of my City Council often attend an annual event in Washington, D.C. known as the Quail Breakfast. It is possible, based upon attendance, that a quorum will be present. Some of the meetings are open to the public while others are, by necessity or nature, closed meetings. My thoughts are as follows:

For all open meetings post and publish a notice of possible quorum indicating that no votes or action will be taken. For the meetings that will be closed place this matter before Council on an agenda prior to the event and have Council decide, in an open meeting, which Council members will attend the private meetings, ensuring that member attendance of the closed meetings will be, at all times, less than a quorum.

I am interested and seek thoughts and possible, legal pitfalls and recommendations to avoid the pitfalls.

Thank you.

The open meeting act states all meetings shall be at reasonably convenient locations to public. A quorum at a meeting in DC would arguably violate this provision. klahoma Open Meeting Act [http://www.oscn.net/Images/Applications/search/WDDocument.gif] Section 303 - Times and Places - Advance Notice Cite as: O.S. §, __ __ ________________________________ All meetings of public bodies, as defined hereinafter, shall be held at specified times and places which are convenient to the public and shall be open to the public, except as hereinafter specifically provided. All meetings of such public bodies, except for executive sessions of the State Banking Board and Oklahoma Savings and Loan Board, shall be preceded by advance public notice specifying the time and place of each such meeting to be convened as well as the subject matter or matters to be considered at such meeting, as hereinafter provided. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This transmission is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sections 2510-2521 and intended to be delivered only to the named addressee(s) This e-mail message is intended only for the personal use of the recipient(s) named above. This message is or may be an attorney-client communication and as such privileged and confidential. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, copy or distribute this message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the original message. s/ David A. Davis LAW OFFICE OF DAVID A. DAVIS 4312 N. Classen Blvd. OKLAHOMA CITY, OK 73118 405 840-6353 405 557-0777 (FAX) ddavislaw@live.com<mailto:ddavislaw@live.com> ________________________________ From: Oama <oama-bounces@lists.imla.org> on behalf of Michael Beason <mbeason@altusok.gov> Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 12:00 PM To: OAMA luistserv (OAMA@lists.imla.org) <OAMA@lists.imla.org> Subject: [Oama] Meetings of the City Council Outside of the City Limits Members of my City Council often attend an annual event in Washington, D.C. known as the Quail Breakfast. It is possible, based upon attendance, that a quorum will be present. Some of the meetings are open to the public while others are, by necessity or nature, closed meetings. My thoughts are as follows: For all open meetings post and publish a notice of possible quorum indicating that no votes or action will be taken. For the meetings that will be closed place this matter before Council on an agenda prior to the event and have Council decide, in an open meeting, which Council members will attend the private meetings, ensuring that member attendance of the closed meetings will be, at all times, less than a quorum. I am interested and seek thoughts and possible, legal pitfalls and recommendations to avoid the pitfalls. Thank you.

RK

Rick Knighton

Fri, Jan 10, 2020 6:17 PM

The definition of "meeting" in 25 O.S. § 304 excludes "informal gatherings of a majority of the members of the public body when no business of the public body is discussed[.]" To the extent that the D.C. events can be characterized as informal, they do not constitute a "meeting" when no business of the pubic body is discussed.

This e-mail is the property of the City Attorney's office, City of Norman, Oklahoma, and the information contained in this e-mail is protected by the attorney-client and/or the attorney work product privilege. It is intended only for the use of the individual named above and the privileges are not waived by virtue of this having been sent by e-mail. If the person actually receiving this message or any other reader of the message is not the named recipient or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the named recipient, any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us and return the original message.

From: Oama oama-bounces@lists.imla.org On Behalf Of Michael Beason
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 12:01 PM
To: OAMA luistserv (OAMA@lists.imla.org) OAMA@lists.imla.org
Subject: EXTERNAL EMAIL : [Oama] Meetings of the City Council Outside of the City Limits

Members of my City Council often attend an annual event in Washington, D.C. known as the Quail Breakfast. It is possible, based upon attendance, that a quorum will be present. Some of the meetings are open to the public while others are, by necessity or nature, closed meetings. My thoughts are as follows:

For all open meetings post and publish a notice of possible quorum indicating that no votes or action will be taken. For the meetings that will be closed place this matter before Council on an agenda prior to the event and have Council decide, in an open meeting, which Council members will attend the private meetings, ensuring that member attendance of the closed meetings will be, at all times, less than a quorum.

I am interested and seek thoughts and possible, legal pitfalls and recommendations to avoid the pitfalls.

Thank you.

The definition of "meeting" in 25 O.S. § 304 excludes "informal gatherings of a majority of the members of the public body when no business of the public body is discussed[.]" To the extent that the D.C. events can be characterized as informal, they do not constitute a "meeting" when no business of the pubic body is discussed. Rickey J. Knighton II | Assistant City Attorney | City of Norman 201 West Gray | P.O. Box 370 | Norman, Oklahoma 73070 ' 405.217.7700 | 6 405.366.5425 | * rick.knighton@normanok.gov<mailto:rick.knighton@normanok.gov> | þ www.normanok.gov<http://www.normanok.gov/> This e-mail is the property of the City Attorney's office, City of Norman, Oklahoma, and the information contained in this e-mail is protected by the attorney-client and/or the attorney work product privilege. It is intended only for the use of the individual named above and the privileges are not waived by virtue of this having been sent by e-mail. If the person actually receiving this message or any other reader of the message is not the named recipient or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the named recipient, any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us and return the original message. From: Oama <oama-bounces@lists.imla.org> On Behalf Of Michael Beason Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 12:01 PM To: OAMA luistserv (OAMA@lists.imla.org) <OAMA@lists.imla.org> Subject: EXTERNAL EMAIL : [Oama] Meetings of the City Council Outside of the City Limits Members of my City Council often attend an annual event in Washington, D.C. known as the Quail Breakfast. It is possible, based upon attendance, that a quorum will be present. Some of the meetings are open to the public while others are, by necessity or nature, closed meetings. My thoughts are as follows: For all open meetings post and publish a notice of possible quorum indicating that no votes or action will be taken. For the meetings that will be closed place this matter before Council on an agenda prior to the event and have Council decide, in an open meeting, which Council members will attend the private meetings, ensuring that member attendance of the closed meetings will be, at all times, less than a quorum. I am interested and seek thoughts and possible, legal pitfalls and recommendations to avoid the pitfalls. Thank you.

DD

david davis

Fri, Jan 10, 2020 6:30 PM

My concern would be that the members would discuss city business and a disgruntled member of the group could cry foul and lodge an open meeting violation complaint. My experience has been that when a group of councilmembers get together they are tempted to discuss city business. Without any way of monitoring the meeting how does one insure that city business is not discussed or tranacted.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This transmission is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sections 2510-2521 and intended to be delivered only to the named addressee(s) This e-mail message is intended only for the personal use of the recipient(s) named above. This message is or may be an attorney-client communication and as such privileged and confidential. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, copy or distribute this message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the original message.

s/ David A. Davis
LAW OFFICE OF DAVID A. DAVIS
4312 N. Classen Blvd.
OKLAHOMA CITY, OK 73118
405 840-6353
405 557-0777 (FAX)
ddavislaw@live.com mailto:ddavislaw@live.com

From: Oama oama-bounces@lists.imla.org on behalf of Rick Knighton Rick.Knighton@NormanOK.gov
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 12:17 PM
To: 'Michael Beason' mbeason@altusok.gov; OAMA luistserv (OAMA@lists.imla.org) OAMA@lists.imla.org
Subject: Re: [Oama] Meetings of the City Council Outside of the City Limits

The definition of “meeting” in 25 O.S. § 304 excludes “informal gatherings of a majority of the members of the public body when no business of the public body is discussed[.]” To the extent that the D.C. events can be characterized as informal, they do not constitute a “meeting” when no business of the pubic body is discussed.

Rickey J. Knighton II | Assistant City Attorney | City of Norman

201 West Gray | P.O. Box 370 | Norman, Oklahoma 73070

' 405.217.7700 | 6 405.366.5425 | • rick.knighton@normanok.gov mailto:rick.knighton@normanok.gov | þ www.normanok.gov http://www.normanok.gov/

This e-mail is the property of the City Attorney’s office, City of Norman, Oklahoma, and the information contained in this e-mail is protected by the attorney-client and/or the attorney work product privilege. It is intended only for the use of the individual named above and the privileges are not waived by virtue of this having been sent by e-mail. If the person actually receiving this message or any other reader of the message is not the named recipient or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the named recipient, any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us and return the original message.

From: Oama oama-bounces@lists.imla.org On Behalf Of Michael Beason
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 12:01 PM
To: OAMA luistserv (OAMA@lists.imla.org) OAMA@lists.imla.org
Subject: EXTERNAL EMAIL : [Oama] Meetings of the City Council Outside of the City Limits

Members of my City Council often attend an annual event in Washington, D.C. known as the Quail Breakfast. It is possible, based upon attendance, that a quorum will be present. Some of the meetings are open to the public while others are, by necessity or nature, closed meetings. My thoughts are as follows:

For all open meetings post and publish a notice of possible quorum indicating that no votes or action will be taken. For the meetings that will be closed place this matter before Council on an agenda prior to the event and have Council decide, in an open meeting, which Council members will attend the private meetings, ensuring that member attendance of the closed meetings will be, at all times, less than a quorum.

I am interested and seek thoughts and possible, legal pitfalls and recommendations to avoid the pitfalls.

Thank you.

My concern would be that the members would discuss city business and a disgruntled member of the group could cry foul and lodge an open meeting violation complaint. My experience has been that when a group of councilmembers get together they are tempted to discuss city business. Without any way of monitoring the meeting how does one insure that city business is not discussed or tranacted. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This transmission is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sections 2510-2521 and intended to be delivered only to the named addressee(s) This e-mail message is intended only for the personal use of the recipient(s) named above. This message is or may be an attorney-client communication and as such privileged and confidential. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, copy or distribute this message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the original message. s/ David A. Davis LAW OFFICE OF DAVID A. DAVIS 4312 N. Classen Blvd. OKLAHOMA CITY, OK 73118 405 840-6353 405 557-0777 (FAX) ddavislaw@live.com<mailto:ddavislaw@live.com> ________________________________ From: Oama <oama-bounces@lists.imla.org> on behalf of Rick Knighton <Rick.Knighton@NormanOK.gov> Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 12:17 PM To: 'Michael Beason' <mbeason@altusok.gov>; OAMA luistserv (OAMA@lists.imla.org) <OAMA@lists.imla.org> Subject: Re: [Oama] Meetings of the City Council Outside of the City Limits The definition of “meeting” in 25 O.S. § 304 excludes “informal gatherings of a majority of the members of the public body when no business of the public body is discussed[.]” To the extent that the D.C. events can be characterized as informal, they do not constitute a “meeting” when no business of the pubic body is discussed. Rickey J. Knighton II | Assistant City Attorney | City of Norman 201 West Gray | P.O. Box 370 | Norman, Oklahoma 73070 ' 405.217.7700 | 6 405.366.5425 | • rick.knighton@normanok.gov<mailto:rick.knighton@normanok.gov> | þ www.normanok.gov<http://www.normanok.gov/> This e-mail is the property of the City Attorney’s office, City of Norman, Oklahoma, and the information contained in this e-mail is protected by the attorney-client and/or the attorney work product privilege. It is intended only for the use of the individual named above and the privileges are not waived by virtue of this having been sent by e-mail. If the person actually receiving this message or any other reader of the message is not the named recipient or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the named recipient, any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us and return the original message. From: Oama <oama-bounces@lists.imla.org> On Behalf Of Michael Beason Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 12:01 PM To: OAMA luistserv (OAMA@lists.imla.org) <OAMA@lists.imla.org> Subject: EXTERNAL EMAIL : [Oama] Meetings of the City Council Outside of the City Limits Members of my City Council often attend an annual event in Washington, D.C. known as the Quail Breakfast. It is possible, based upon attendance, that a quorum will be present. Some of the meetings are open to the public while others are, by necessity or nature, closed meetings. My thoughts are as follows: For all open meetings post and publish a notice of possible quorum indicating that no votes or action will be taken. For the meetings that will be closed place this matter before Council on an agenda prior to the event and have Council decide, in an open meeting, which Council members will attend the private meetings, ensuring that member attendance of the closed meetings will be, at all times, less than a quorum. I am interested and seek thoughts and possible, legal pitfalls and recommendations to avoid the pitfalls. Thank you.

JM

Jon Miller

Fri, Jan 10, 2020 6:39 PM

I would review your charter and ordinances. Some require all city council meetings occur within city limits.

If there are no impediments to having a meeting outside of the city or state, then posting may be a necessity. The definition of what constitutes "city business" is very broad, and can even include traveling together to view equipment that the city may consider purchasing. Depending on what transpires at the conference, it could be problematic. I agree that any agenda should state that no vote will be taken on any agenda item (other than adjournment) and limit what can transpire at any meeting.

If there is a prohibition against conducting meetings outside of city limits, council should consider limiting attendance to less than a quorum.

Jonathan E. Miller
City Attorney
City of Mustang
P.O. Box 850854
Yukon, Oklahoma 73085
Telephone: (405) 938-9108

This message is sent by a lawyer and may contain information that is privileged or confidential. If you received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by reply e-mail and delete this message and any attachments. This e-mail is intended for the addressee(s) only, and may not be distributed to any other person without written consent of the sender.

From: Oama oama-bounces@lists.imla.org On Behalf Of Michael Beason
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 12:01 PM
To: OAMA luistserv (OAMA@lists.imla.org) OAMA@lists.imla.org
Subject: [Oama] Meetings of the City Council Outside of the City Limits

Members of my City Council often attend an annual event in Washington, D.C. known as the Quail Breakfast. It is possible, based upon attendance, that a quorum will be present. Some of the meetings are open to the public while others are, by necessity or nature, closed meetings. My thoughts are as follows:

For all open meetings post and publish a notice of possible quorum indicating that no votes or action will be taken. For the meetings that will be closed place this matter before Council on an agenda prior to the event and have Council decide, in an open meeting, which Council members will attend the private meetings, ensuring that member attendance of the closed meetings will be, at all times, less than a quorum.

I am interested and seek thoughts and possible, legal pitfalls and recommendations to avoid the pitfalls.

Thank you.

I would review your charter and ordinances. Some require all city council meetings occur within city limits. If there are no impediments to having a meeting outside of the city or state, then posting may be a necessity. The definition of what constitutes "city business" is very broad, and can even include traveling together to view equipment that the city may consider purchasing. Depending on what transpires at the conference, it could be problematic. I agree that any agenda should state that no vote will be taken on any agenda item (other than adjournment) and limit what can transpire at any meeting. If there is a prohibition against conducting meetings outside of city limits, council should consider limiting attendance to less than a quorum. Jonathan E. Miller City Attorney City of Mustang P.O. Box 850854 Yukon, Oklahoma 73085 Telephone: (405) 938-9108 ********************************************************************************************* This message is sent by a lawyer and may contain information that is privileged or confidential. If you received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by reply e-mail and delete this message and any attachments. This e-mail is intended for the addressee(s) only, and may not be distributed to any other person without written consent of the sender. From: Oama <oama-bounces@lists.imla.org> On Behalf Of Michael Beason Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 12:01 PM To: OAMA luistserv (OAMA@lists.imla.org) <OAMA@lists.imla.org> Subject: [Oama] Meetings of the City Council Outside of the City Limits Members of my City Council often attend an annual event in Washington, D.C. known as the Quail Breakfast. It is possible, based upon attendance, that a quorum will be present. Some of the meetings are open to the public while others are, by necessity or nature, closed meetings. My thoughts are as follows: For all open meetings post and publish a notice of possible quorum indicating that no votes or action will be taken. For the meetings that will be closed place this matter before Council on an agenda prior to the event and have Council decide, in an open meeting, which Council members will attend the private meetings, ensuring that member attendance of the closed meetings will be, at all times, less than a quorum. I am interested and seek thoughts and possible, legal pitfalls and recommendations to avoid the pitfalls. Thank you.

CA

Carpenter, Amanda B

Fri, Jan 10, 2020 7:07 PM

Section 303 of the Open Meeting Act requires that all meetings be held at "places which are convenient to the public and shall be open to the public." There is an argument that if the breakfast in DC is considered a meeting, then the DC location is not a location which is convenient to the public. Additionally, as you stated, at times, it is not open to the public.

Amanda Carpenter
Deputy Municipal Counselor
The City of Oklahoma City

From: Oama <oama-bounces@lists.imla.org mailto:oama-bounces@lists.imla.org> On Behalf Of Michael Beason
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 12:01 PM
To: OAMA luistserv (OAMA@lists.imla.org mailto:OAMA@lists.imla.org) <OAMA@lists.imla.org mailto:OAMA@lists.imla.org>
Subject: [Oama] Meetings of the City Council Outside of the City Limits

Members of my City Council often attend an annual event in Washington, D.C. known as the Quail Breakfast. It is possible, based upon attendance, that a quorum will be present. Some of the meetings are open to the public while others are, by necessity or nature, closed meetings. My thoughts are as follows:

For all open meetings post and publish a notice of possible quorum indicating that no votes or action will be taken. For the meetings that will be closed place this matter before Council on an agenda prior to the event and have Council decide, in an open meeting, which Council members will attend the private meetings, ensuring that member attendance of the closed meetings will be, at all times, less than a quorum.

I am interested and seek thoughts and possible, legal pitfalls and recommendations to avoid the pitfalls.

Thank you.
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This e-mail message and any attachments are intended solely for the person to which it is addressed and may contain privileged and confidential information protected by law. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone or e-mail, destroy this message and delete any copies held in your electronic files. Unauthorized use and/or re-disclosure may subject you to penalties under applicable state and federal laws.

Section 303 of the Open Meeting Act requires that all meetings be held at "places which are convenient to the public and shall be open to the public." There is an argument that if the breakfast in DC is considered a meeting, then the DC location is not a location which is convenient to the public. Additionally, as you stated, at times, it is not open to the public. Amanda Carpenter Deputy Municipal Counselor The City of Oklahoma City From: Oama <oama-bounces@lists.imla.org<mailto:oama-bounces@lists.imla.org>> On Behalf Of Michael Beason Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 12:01 PM To: OAMA luistserv (OAMA@lists.imla.org<mailto:OAMA@lists.imla.org>) <OAMA@lists.imla.org<mailto:OAMA@lists.imla.org>> Subject: [Oama] Meetings of the City Council Outside of the City Limits Members of my City Council often attend an annual event in Washington, D.C. known as the Quail Breakfast. It is possible, based upon attendance, that a quorum will be present. Some of the meetings are open to the public while others are, by necessity or nature, closed meetings. My thoughts are as follows: For all open meetings post and publish a notice of possible quorum indicating that no votes or action will be taken. For the meetings that will be closed place this matter before Council on an agenda prior to the event and have Council decide, in an open meeting, which Council members will attend the private meetings, ensuring that member attendance of the closed meetings will be, at all times, less than a quorum. I am interested and seek thoughts and possible, legal pitfalls and recommendations to avoid the pitfalls. Thank you. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This e-mail message and any attachments are intended solely for the person to which it is addressed and may contain privileged and confidential information protected by law. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone or e-mail, destroy this message and delete any copies held in your electronic files. Unauthorized use and/or re-disclosure may subject you to penalties under applicable state and federal laws.

MR

Michael R. Vanderburg

Fri, Jan 10, 2020 8:11 PM

In addition to that review, I remind you that under 25 O.S. §303, the meetings have to be "convenient to the public" as well as open. While there may be reasons to hold a meeting outside of the city limits, you will want to document that reason, and the new location must still be open to the public (excluding only executive sessions).

Mike Vanderburg
Ponca City

From: Oama [mailto:oama-bounces@lists.imla.org] On Behalf Of Jon Miller
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 12:40 PM
To: Michael Beason; OAMA luistserv (OAMA@lists.imla.org)
Subject: Re: [Oama] Meetings of the City Council Outside of the City Limits

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