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Re: TWL: Re: Re: Was "Found in the Bilge" & New vs Used

T
tobyboat@worldnet.att.net
Sun, Dec 23, 2001 1:39 PM

Have you experienced anything to give you pause as to the righting moment or
the boat?
****  Absolutely not - as I said I have every confidence in her.

I am curious as to whether the PO had somehow loaded the boat to make it top
heavy or was there some other outside force that caused the boat to turn
turtle so easily(relatively)?    It seems that 70kts on the beam shouldn't
have caused that or is there a lot more to the story that I am missing?
****  The PO had carried only a dinghy on the aft deck - this fact was
seized upon by the insurance co in the reinsurance process to pose the same
Q that you suggest .

  • Jim Krogan was quite generous to run the stability figures again with
    various increased loadings on the upper deck - one would have to add a ton
    or so  to the upper deck to change the loading factors very much and even
    then the result would pass the ABS  ( sp ?) design requirements for
    stability for commercial vessels .

Please relate the whole story for us that didn't know about it previously.
Is the boat tender now?

  No the boat is not tender at all ..

 The story is pretty much as I related it - just a quirk of the weather

and possibly some questionable seamanship .

When I was rebuilding the boat Bob Reib ( Skipper Bob ) and his wife had
just purchased their boat  Snug - a sister ship - and were beginning their
adventures - cruising the fingers of Middle River where Mrs. H was being
rebuilt -- they stopped to talk for a while and  met the owner of the sail
boat that had rescued the PO and his wife after the incident .
As I said the sailboat had been knocked down while under bare pole  - the
estimate of  the wind is only that - it could have well been much greater
than that . Bob wrote a small article for the Krogen Cruisers of the
incident following their meeting of the sailboater  which is included in my
records along with the Jim Krogens notes of the report made to him by the
PO - both seem to be in agreement as to the facts .

 The only other factor that I might think of is the shallowness of the

water in that section of the bay  to the East of the main shipping channel -
and the fetch of several miles to kick up a bit of a sea .. the famous
Chesapeake Chop -- when the wind kicks up the wave heights build quickly to
rather unsusal heights --- these waves comming from the channel to the
shallows would possibly have been of an unsusal height .

  I suspect that it was a unfortunate combination of factors - as it

usually is to cause such diaster - like I said before I have been in several
of those severe frontal  storms on the bay  diced with water spouts and
other weather related  stuff for which the Bay is notorious .
Be Careful out there ...

All the Best
Ken

Have you experienced anything to give you pause as to the righting moment or the boat? **** Absolutely not - as I said I have every confidence in her. I am curious as to whether the PO had somehow loaded the boat to make it top heavy or was there some other outside force that caused the boat to turn turtle so easily(relatively)? It seems that 70kts on the beam shouldn't have caused that or is there a lot more to the story that I am missing? **** The PO had carried only a dinghy on the aft deck - this fact was seized upon by the insurance co in the reinsurance process to pose the same Q that you suggest . - Jim Krogan was quite generous to run the stability figures again with various increased loadings on the upper deck - one would have to add a ton or so to the upper deck to change the loading factors very much and even then the result would pass the ABS ( sp ?) design requirements for stability for commercial vessels . Please relate the whole story for us that didn't know about it previously. Is the boat tender now? No the boat is not tender at all .. The story is pretty much as I related it - just a quirk of the weather and possibly some questionable seamanship . When I was rebuilding the boat Bob Reib ( Skipper Bob ) and his wife had just purchased their boat Snug - a sister ship - and were beginning their adventures - cruising the fingers of Middle River where Mrs. H was being rebuilt -- they stopped to talk for a while and met the owner of the sail boat that had rescued the PO and his wife after the incident . As I said the sailboat had been knocked down while under bare pole - the estimate of the wind is only that - it could have well been much greater than that . Bob wrote a small article for the Krogen Cruisers of the incident following their meeting of the sailboater which is included in my records along with the Jim Krogens notes of the report made to him by the PO - both seem to be in agreement as to the facts . The only other factor that I might think of is the shallowness of the water in that section of the bay to the East of the main shipping channel - and the fetch of several miles to kick up a bit of a sea .. the famous Chesapeake Chop -- when the wind kicks up the wave heights build quickly to rather unsusal heights --- these waves comming from the channel to the shallows would possibly have been of an unsusal height . I suspect that it was a unfortunate combination of factors - as it usually is to cause such diaster - like I said before I have been in several of those severe frontal storms on the bay diced with water spouts and other weather related stuff for which the Bay is notorious . Be Careful out there ... All the Best Ken
T
tobyboat@worldnet.att.net
Sun, Dec 23, 2001 3:43 PM

Walt,
Sounds pretty close to what I have heard -- probably close enough to be
the same fellow -- thanks .
Ken

Walt, Sounds pretty close to what I have heard -- probably close enough to be the same fellow -- thanks . Ken
A
Annieseztoo@email.msn.com
Sun, Dec 23, 2001 8:28 PM

----- Original Message -----
From: "M. Kenneth McQuage".

Please relate the whole story for us that didn't know about it

previously.

Is the boat tender now?

   No the boat is not tender at all ..

  The story is pretty much as I related it - just a quirk of the

weather

and possibly some questionable seamanship .

<snip>
 Several years ago (pre TWL), while at the Annapolis Boat Show. I met a

gent who told me a story of turtleling his Manatee at the mouth of the
Sassafras River. After joining TWL and hearing Ken's story it sounds for all
the world like the same boat.
The story as related to me was that he was on the Bay when the storm
kicked up and he tried to run for the relative protection of the Sassafras
River. Now the entrance to the Sassafras is wide with plenty of room to tack
into wind and seas, but he was in a panic running in these conditions, so he
was just holding a course straight into the river with wind an seas on the
beam.
In a summer thunderstorm the Chesapeake Bay can develop a short steep
chop that can be more dangerous to small vessels like ours than  large ocean
swells. Apparently the period of the waves were in sync with the boats
period of roll, and with each wave he rolled further and further. He was in
a panic and did not think to tack and quarter the seas, and the roll quickly
built and turned him turtle.
Just a story I heard from the (maybe) PO

Walt Konieczko
Annie Sez Too    34 Marine Trader
Lanoka Harbor, NJ

----- Original Message ----- From: "M. Kenneth McQuage". > > Please relate the whole story for us that didn't know about it previously. > Is the boat tender now? > > No the boat is not tender at all .. > > The story is pretty much as I related it - just a quirk of the weather > and possibly some questionable seamanship . <snip> Several years ago (pre TWL), while at the Annapolis Boat Show. I met a gent who told me a story of turtleling his Manatee at the mouth of the Sassafras River. After joining TWL and hearing Ken's story it sounds for all the world like the same boat. The story as related to me was that he was on the Bay when the storm kicked up and he tried to run for the relative protection of the Sassafras River. Now the entrance to the Sassafras is wide with plenty of room to tack into wind and seas, but he was in a panic running in these conditions, so he was just holding a course straight into the river with wind an seas on the beam. In a summer thunderstorm the Chesapeake Bay can develop a short steep chop that can be more dangerous to small vessels like ours than large ocean swells. Apparently the period of the waves were in sync with the boats period of roll, and with each wave he rolled further and further. He was in a panic and did not think to tack and quarter the seas, and the roll quickly built and turned him turtle. Just a story I heard from the (maybe) PO Walt Konieczko Annie Sez Too 34 Marine Trader Lanoka Harbor, NJ