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Cruising America's Great Loop and other inland routes
View all threadsRe: GL: GMRS Radios?
On 5/28/14 5:01 PM, jonathan olenick wrote:
The longer range GMRS radios require an expensive FCC license
Yes. In the US, but not in Canada. In Canada there is no GMRS
licensing requirement, although there is for marine VHF, both for the
station and for the operator.
The US license is $85 for 5 years as I recall, but the radios are sold
over the counter without request for a licence, and there is little
policing AFAIK, so I imagine that few bother.
In the USA, there are two services that share some of the same UHF frequencies (462 MHz range). One is FRS (Family Radio Service) with 300 milliwatt power and only about half of the allocated frequencies; no license is required. GMRS (General Mobile Radio Service) has twice as many frequency channels and much higher power limit. A license for the equipment IS required and there is a fee.
I have had what was called the Third Class Radiotelephone Operator's Permit since 1981 or so and it did not require a fee then. AFAIK, that permit is good for life.
** D C "Mac" Macdonald **
- Grand Lake & OKC - OK *
** AGLCA (#217) & USPS ** -
- (no current boat) * *
** USAF & FAA, Retired **
** Amateur Radio K2GKK **
- (no current boat) * *
-
- Since 30 Nov 1953 * *
- k2gkk hotmail dot com *
Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 17:11:11 -0600
From: allendick@gmail.com
To: great-loop@lists.trawlering.com
Subject: Re: GL: GMRS Radios?
On 5/28/14 5:01 PM, jonathan olenick wrote:
The longer range GMRS radios require an expensive FCC license
Yes. In the US, but not in Canada. In Canada there is no GMRS
licensing requirement, although there is for marine VHF, both for the
station and for the operator.
The US license is $85 for 5 years as I recall, but the radios are sold
over the counter without request for a licence, and there is little
policing AFAIK, so I imagine that few bother.
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Thanks.
BTW, I should clarify that I am referring to GMRS when I said:
The US license is $85 for 5 years as I recall, but the radios are
sold over the counter without request for a licence, and there is
little policing AFAIK, so I imagine that few bother.
As for power, the MS350R GMRS walkie transmits with 1.5 watts on high
power on GMRS channels and steps down to the maximum FRS allowed wattage
which is 0.5 watts ERP on the FRS channels. Most marine VHF handhelds
transmit with 1 watt on "low" and 4 or 5 watts on "high" AFAIK.
Apparently the Midland GXT1000VP4 GMRS walkie transmits with 5 watts!
Up to 50 watts is allowed on GMRS, apparently, but walkie talkies are
limited by their small batteries and other size factors.
So, although the frequency bands are different -- UHF vs VHF -- which
will affect propagation, the power outputs are not all that different on
the GMRS walkies from hand-held marine VHFs. Although transmit power is
important, receiver capability can be a limiting factor.
That's why I am wondering if I should get a bunch of these MS350R
cheapies and hand them out.
I'm surprised more boaters haven't played with GMRS. I suppose in
populated areas, the bands are busy, but then so are the recreational
VHF channels.
Or, do loopers use channels other than the few clearly allocated for
recreational? (I know that the marine channel allocations vary by region).
On 5/28/14 6:34 PM, D C Mac Macdonald wrote:
In the USA, there are two services that share some of the same UHF
frequencies (462 MHz range). One is FRS (Family Radio Service) with
300 milliwatt power and only about half of the allocated frequencies;
no license is required. GMRS (General Mobile Radio Service) has twice
as many frequency channels and much higher power limit. A license
for the equipment IS required and there is a fee.
I have had what was called the Third Class Radiotelephone Operator's
Permit since 1981 or so and it did not require a fee then. AFAIK,
that permit is good for life.
We used inexpensive GMRS radios some years
ago with a bit of success but not any longer.
Everyone has a cell phone and they're more
reliable, selective (private) and the GMRS
radios would be just one more thing to keep
up with. Range is not a problem with cell
phones and can be with GMRS.
Jim
On 05/28/2014 08:34 PM, D C Mac Macdonald wrote:
...
I have had what was called the Third Class Radiotelephone Operator's Permit since 1981 or so and it did not require a fee then. AFAIK, that permit is good for life.
That permit class was eliminated long ago (along with First and Second
class Licenses). Many things that formerly required such a permit no
longer require licensing, but many now require a different license. So
in that sense, your lifetime permit now confers no operating privileges
whatsoever.
None of which really bears on maritime use. Recreational vessels in the
US require a Ships License (and operator permit) if they are equipped
with SSB and/or if they are equipped with VHF and travel to foreign
ports (including Canada). "Compulsory" vessels have somewhat more
onerous licensing standards.
-Sean
But you do have to have a cell phone connection, so there are a few
places even in the US where they are unreliable and even more
problematic in "remote" places like parts of Canada, the Bahamas and Dry
Tortugas (to name a few off the top of my head).
<><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><>
Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina
MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base
DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida
Blog: http://mvsanderling.net/Blog
Web: http://cruising.mvsanderling.net/
On 5/28/2014 11:26 PM, Jim wrote:
We used inexpensive GMRS radios some years ago with a bit of success but
not any longer.
Everyone has a cell phone and they're more reliable, selective (private)
and the GMRS radios would be just one more thing to keep up with. Range
is not a problem with cell phones and can be with GMRS.
Sean Communications for what? docking and talking to crew or contacting the USCG. VHF is line of sight max 12 to 15 miles. Who are you going to talk to on that
Motorola radio. It must be FM and your not going to find any boaters
on that radio. We have VHF Marine Radios, Single side band for
amateur radio and talk around the world. SSB is up to 30 MZ.
We have 2 Meter Ham radio also. We are part of the Waterway Radio
Cruising club, see http://www.waterwayradio.net/ Get a Marine VHF radio with the
NOAA Weather forecast in there. I use ICOM products. Standard Horizon is good as well.
Also get a Portable Handheld unit as well Put some good money in an antenna. If you cant hear them you cant work them.
Waterway Net Web Site
Waterway Net with Weather and informational service for the boating amateur radio operator
View on www.waterwayradio.net Preview by Yahoo
Save Cruising
Bob Kovach
KJ4UGE/MM
M/Y ALLEZ!
MTOA, USPS, AGLCA, USCG-ARD
On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 11:37 PM, Sean Welsh slwelsh+trawlers@gmail.com wrote:
On 05/28/2014 08:34 PM, D C Mac Macdonald wrote:
...
I have had what was called the Third Class Radiotelephone Operator's Permit since 1981 or so and it did not require a fee then. AFAIK, that permit is good for life.
That permit class was eliminated long ago (along with First and Second
class Licenses). Many things that formerly required such a permit no
longer require licensing, but many now require a different license. So
in that sense, your lifetime permit now confers no operating privileges
whatsoever.
None of which really bears on maritime use. Recreational vessels in the
US require a Ships License (and operator permit) if they are equipped
with SSB and/or if they are equipped with VHF and travel to foreign
ports (including Canada). "Compulsory" vessels have somewhat more
onerous licensing standards.
-Sean
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But you do have to have a cell phone connection, so there are a few
places even in the US where they are unreliable and even more
problematic in "remote" places like parts of Canada, the Bahamas and Dry
Tortugas (to name a few off the top of my head).
Exactly. Although my flotilla is not anywhere near the loop (Sorry. It
is in 'The Broughtons' in Northwest B.C.), I figured that loopers might
have some experience with ship to shore communication that does not
involve cell phones or (illegal) use of marine VHF.
Speaking of cell phones, though, has anyone any experience with cell
repeater units that can be installed high on a boat to amplify and relay
signals to phones and devices nearby? I've seen them on the web and
have a friend who is in a fringe area who uses one at home, but don't
know anyone who has used them on a boat.
We have a Wilson cell amplifier system on our boat. Works well. It will take
one bar of signal and turn it into 5 bars. Check with Wilson because they
keep upgrading their hardware as the cell industry evolves. I am sure they
have better hardware than what we have aboard (maybe 3 years old). We boat
on Lake Superior and cell coverage along the coastal waters is frequently
sketchy.
David Sorenson
Duluth, MN
-----Original Message-----
From: allen
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 7:49 AM
To: great-loop@lists.trawlering.com
Subject: Re: GL: GMRS Radios?
But you do have to have a cell phone connection, so there are a few
places even in the US where they are unreliable and even more
problematic in "remote" places like parts of Canada, the Bahamas and Dry
Tortugas (to name a few off the top of my head).
Exactly. Although my flotilla is not anywhere near the loop (Sorry. It
is in 'The Broughtons' in Northwest B.C.), I figured that loopers might
have some experience with ship to shore communication that does not
involve cell phones or (illegal) use of marine VHF.
Speaking of cell phones, though, has anyone any experience with cell
repeater units that can be installed high on a boat to amplify and relay
signals to phones and devices nearby? I've seen them on the web and
have a friend who is in a fringe area who uses one at home, but don't
know anyone who has used them on a boat.
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The OP's question related to use ashore for person-to-person
communications. Presumably that's two or more persons who already know
each other (from the same boat or perhaps boats cruising together), not
boaters attempting to contact random other boaters. For this
application, I favor and recommend FRS radios -- no need for GMRS power
levels to talk from one end of Walmart to the other (and, face it,
that's really what you need -- "honey, I'm in the pet aisle; what brand
of cat litter do we buy?" or, more likely "what aisle are you in?").
Some folks like to get the GMRS radios just because the FRS-only
channels can be crazy busy, but that's hardly true any longer.
As has been noted already, you can not legally use VHF marine radios,
even handhelds and regardless of channel, for this purpose. There must
be a boat, in the water (so even being on the hard does not count), at
one or both ends of a marine VHF communication.
As another poster pointed out, the prevalence of cell phones and cheap
minutes (many mobile-to-mobile minutes are not even billed) has all but
eliminated the need for these sorts of personal radios. I text or
sometimes call my wife across Walmart these days. But it is also true
that cell signals don't work everywhere. If you're going to land the
dinghy on some isolated island and then hike off in different
directions, or one person hikes while the other enjoys the beach, etc.,
FRS radios are a great addition to your kit. If one of your party is
adventurous enough to hike more than a couple of miles from the beach,
then perhaps the greater power of a GMRS setup is a better choice for you.
As a side note, I live in a steel boat (steel hull, aluminum house).
About the only thing that works for communicating between the ER, which
is nearly a Faraday cage, and, say, the flybridge or the foredeck, is
our pair of FRS radios. So we drag them out for troubleshooting that
requires one of us below and one elsewhere on the boat. I think you
will find that the big boys (cruise ships, freighters, etc.) also use
UHF-band handhelds for communication among crew both ashore and aboard
ship, but these are generally licensed frequencies. Every cruise ship
I've been on has been equipped with UHF repeaters for exactly this purpose.
-Sean
m/y Vector
lying Fort Lauderdale
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
On 05/29/2014 08:43 AM, MY ALLEZ wrote:
Sean Communications for what? docking and talking to crew or
contacting the USCG. ... Who are you going to talk to on that
Motorola radio. It must be FM and your not going to find any boaters
on that radio.