Diesel load and related questions

DR
Dennis Raedeke
Tue, Jun 16, 2009 7:31 PM

Arild, Jim

Thanks for the info on EGT Arild.  Those numbers seem to match my experience.
The most efficient my engines seem to run is at 725.  I have seen no problem
of running the engines at EGT at 850 for long periods of time. When I run on
one engine I run it at about 725.  The idea that diesel engines have to be
under a certain load to survive to long life is questionable.  My men leave
our diesel snow cats run to keep them warm and I see truckers keep their rigs
running all night while sleeping. We have not seen any trouble related to
this. The engine should be run fast for a little after a long idle period.

With CPP's you are able to load the engine any way you like. With proper
instrumentation you are able to fine tune your operation. In regard to the
fact that a user of CPP's could damage an engine, people can figure out a lot
of ways to do that. An alarm would work well to tell you when the temp gets
too high. When you see a truck blowing black smoke I bet the EGT is a lot
higher than 850. There is one thing that I have noticed that should be talked
about. The props and shafts are very heavy and it takes alot of torque to
start them turning. I notice a large clunk when I put the transmission in
gear. My Cummins man told me I should idle my engines around 900 RPM.  I don't
do that, I idle them at just under 600. I once had a tour boat that came with
out units with aluminum props and we thought that it would be nice to have
stainless props. The units had dog clutches and were damaged because they
could not take the stress of the heavier props. If I would get another boat
where I thought CPP's would fit the use intended. Notice INTENDED USE.  I
would find a CPP that could be bolted direct to the engine and could go from
full feather to full reverse. I have not researched it in depth. The Saab
looked interesting but the sizing was a problem. I think CPP's have been
improved since I built WWIV.

Dennis

Arild, Jim Thanks for the info on EGT Arild. Those numbers seem to match my experience. The most efficient my engines seem to run is at 725. I have seen no problem of running the engines at EGT at 850 for long periods of time. When I run on one engine I run it at about 725. The idea that diesel engines have to be under a certain load to survive to long life is questionable. My men leave our diesel snow cats run to keep them warm and I see truckers keep their rigs running all night while sleeping. We have not seen any trouble related to this. The engine should be run fast for a little after a long idle period. With CPP's you are able to load the engine any way you like. With proper instrumentation you are able to fine tune your operation. In regard to the fact that a user of CPP's could damage an engine, people can figure out a lot of ways to do that. An alarm would work well to tell you when the temp gets too high. When you see a truck blowing black smoke I bet the EGT is a lot higher than 850. There is one thing that I have noticed that should be talked about. The props and shafts are very heavy and it takes alot of torque to start them turning. I notice a large clunk when I put the transmission in gear. My Cummins man told me I should idle my engines around 900 RPM. I don't do that, I idle them at just under 600. I once had a tour boat that came with out units with aluminum props and we thought that it would be nice to have stainless props. The units had dog clutches and were damaged because they could not take the stress of the heavier props. If I would get another boat where I thought CPP's would fit the use intended. Notice INTENDED USE. I would find a CPP that could be bolted direct to the engine and could go from full feather to full reverse. I have not researched it in depth. The Saab looked interesting but the sizing was a problem. I think CPP's have been improved since I built WWIV. Dennis
2
2elnav@netbistro.com
Tue, Jun 16, 2009 8:35 PM

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Raedeke" dennis@wildmountain.com

The idea that diesel engines have to be under a certain load to survive

to long life is questionable.  My men leave  our diesel snow cats run to
keep them warm and I see truckers keep their rigs running all night while
sleeping. We have not seen any trouble related to this. The engine should be
run fast for a little after a long idle period.

REPLY
That  notion is the result of mixing apples and oranges.  It is gensets
that  must be run  at a certain load  when they are run at  1800 RPM.  Fast
speed means  the fuel dielivery is set at so muchvolume.  If the  generator
engine is not loaded fully,  it runs cool.  This in turn means  the fuel
condenses on the cylinder walls instead of being burnt as a vapor.  Now it
leaks down the cylinder walls  forming glaze  and in extreme cases dilutes
the lube oil.
When you slow down to idle, the fuel metering is also reduced.  This pretty
much eliminated much of the wet stacking.  As you so rightly indicate  a
fast  run after prolonged idling  tends to burn off any residue and  the
engine  is back to normal.
Admittedly a high power, high speed engine  is likely  not going to be  very
happy if idled for prolonged periods of time. Especially in cool weather.
If turbo charged, the turbo is  not spinning very quickly  but the bearing
housing is still full of hot oil  which is not circulating quickly in the
bearing.  That may cause cabonizing of the oil in the turbo bearing.
Eventually such deposits build up to a point it impairs the bearing s
rolling resistance.  I sucessfully cleaned up a clogged bearing  which had
fouled  for that reason.

Dennis wrote

With CPP's you are able to load the engine any way you like. With proper
instrumentation you are able to fine tune your operation.

REPLY
Correct.  The trick is to bring  the combustion  chamber walls up to a point
which  leads to complete  combustion all  the time. We sometimes forget
that a diesel is a compression ignition engine and  the compression  creates
the necessary heat.  If the heat removal system of the engine  removes the
heat  too fast  or if the loading  is not sufficient to bring up the heat
enough, we get poor running.  Lightly loaded engines tend to run cooler.
That leads to less than optimum combustion efficiencies.  In propulsion
engines this does not necessarily lead to  engine damage except for some
carbon build up.

Arild

----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Raedeke" <dennis@wildmountain.com> > The idea that diesel engines have to be under a certain load to survive to long life is questionable. My men leave our diesel snow cats run to keep them warm and I see truckers keep their rigs running all night while sleeping. We have not seen any trouble related to this. The engine should be run fast for a little after a long idle period. REPLY That notion is the result of mixing apples and oranges. It is gensets that must be run at a certain load when they are run at 1800 RPM. Fast speed means the fuel dielivery is set at so muchvolume. If the generator engine is not loaded fully, it runs cool. This in turn means the fuel condenses on the cylinder walls instead of being burnt as a vapor. Now it leaks down the cylinder walls forming glaze and in extreme cases dilutes the lube oil. When you slow down to idle, the fuel metering is also reduced. This pretty much eliminated much of the wet stacking. As you so rightly indicate a fast run after prolonged idling tends to burn off any residue and the engine is back to normal. Admittedly a high power, high speed engine is likely not going to be very happy if idled for prolonged periods of time. Especially in cool weather. If turbo charged, the turbo is not spinning very quickly but the bearing housing is still full of hot oil which is not circulating quickly in the bearing. That may cause cabonizing of the oil in the turbo bearing. Eventually such deposits build up to a point it impairs the bearing s rolling resistance. I sucessfully cleaned up a clogged bearing which had fouled for that reason. Dennis wrote > With CPP's you are able to load the engine any way you like. With proper > instrumentation you are able to fine tune your operation. REPLY Correct. The trick is to bring the combustion chamber walls up to a point which leads to complete combustion all the time. We sometimes forget that a diesel is a compression ignition engine and the compression creates the necessary heat. If the heat removal system of the engine removes the heat too fast or if the loading is not sufficient to bring up the heat enough, we get poor running. Lightly loaded engines tend to run cooler. That leads to less than optimum combustion efficiencies. In propulsion engines this does not necessarily lead to engine damage except for some carbon build up. Arild