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Competing Claim on Property in custody of police

JO
Jones, Orval E
Tue, Feb 27, 2024 7:44 PM

Filing a CV case as Beth Anne did is one way to go.  There is also a CP docket (Criminal Property return) which is less expensive to file ($10 filing fee plus $10 service fee), and can be filed by anyone with a claimed interest in the property.

In addition to 11 O.S. 34-104 (which deals expressly with property no longer needed as evidence which remains unclaimed), one should also consult 22 O.S. 1321 et seq.  Both were amended in 2021 to more closely interrelate with each other.  I recently started a memo to address pawn shop and stolen firearm issues, and it is entirely unfinished, but it does have pertinent language from each of the statutes involved in such scenarios.  Many people think a stolen firearm can be washed through a pawn shop, but I do not agree with that assessment.  Notice that a municipality also can file a motion for instructions in a criminal case if one has been filed.  The administrative office of the courts has forms and instructions for owners with competing claims to file pursuant to 22 O.S. 1321 https://www.oscn.net/static/forms/aoc_forms/personalproperty.asp.

Venue will be in the county where the firearm is located.  Either claimed owner or the city with possession can file (citing one of the two pertinent statutes).  Oklahoma City provides the court forms from the administrative office of the courts and requires the person filing the claim to notify the city and the adverse claimant.

Orval Edwin Jones
City of OKC

-----Original Message-----
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2024 12:03:25 -0600
From: Matt Love matt.love@gmail.com
Subject: [Oama] Competing Claim on Property at the PD

Curious if anyone has ever confronted this weird legal issue before:

City's PD has a piece of property in its possession that isn't need for evidentiary purposes and there are two people who are claiming to be the owners of the property (and each wants the property). What is the best way to get the ownership dispute resolved? Is it to have the two parties go to Court and come back with an Order? Is there a way the City can be the one to get this dispute in front of the District Court (and, if so, is that the best option)?

Short version: firearm is reported stolen in County #1 and inputted into NCIC. Pawnshop in County #2 has the firearm, finds out it is stolen, and contacts the agency that inputted the firearm into NCIC. There's a fact dispute about what happens next. Pawnshop says that the agency that inputted the firearm into NCIC said they would come retrieve the gun but 2 years went by and they never did. Originating agency says that they went to retrieve the gun, but the pawnshop refused to give it to them. Regardless,
2+ years later the gun is sold to a person in County #1...and the City's 2+ PD comes into contact with that person and runs the gun and gets a hit in NCIC.

The complicating wrinkle is that the elected DA in County #1 (i.e. the County where the PD that currently has the firearm in its possession is located) is taking the position that the person who purchased the gun from the pawnshop is the rightful owner and telling the PD that they need to return the gun to that person. The DA in County #2 (i.e. the County in which the gun was stolen and where the other PD that inputted the gun into NCIC is located) is telling the PD that they have to turn the gun over to the original owner. So the PD has 2 DA's giving them conflicting directives.

Any feedback / insight would be appreciated.

Matt

Filing a CV case as Beth Anne did is one way to go. There is also a CP docket (Criminal Property return) which is less expensive to file ($10 filing fee plus $10 service fee), and can be filed by anyone with a claimed interest in the property. In addition to 11 O.S. 34-104 (which deals expressly with property no longer needed as evidence which remains unclaimed), one should also consult 22 O.S. 1321 et seq. Both were amended in 2021 to more closely interrelate with each other. I recently started a memo to address pawn shop and stolen firearm issues, and it is entirely unfinished, but it does have pertinent language from each of the statutes involved in such scenarios. Many people think a stolen firearm can be washed through a pawn shop, but I do not agree with that assessment. Notice that a municipality also can file a motion for instructions in a criminal case if one has been filed. The administrative office of the courts has forms and instructions for owners with competing claims to file pursuant to 22 O.S. 1321 https://www.oscn.net/static/forms/aoc_forms/personalproperty.asp. Venue will be in the county where the firearm is located. Either claimed owner or the city with possession can file (citing one of the two pertinent statutes). Oklahoma City provides the court forms from the administrative office of the courts and requires the person filing the claim to notify the city and the adverse claimant. Orval Edwin Jones City of OKC -----Original Message----- Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2024 12:03:25 -0600 From: Matt Love <matt.love@gmail.com> Subject: [Oama] Competing Claim on Property at the PD Curious if anyone has ever confronted this weird legal issue before: City's PD has a piece of property in its possession that isn't need for evidentiary purposes and there are two people who are claiming to be the owners of the property (and each wants the property). What is the best way to get the ownership dispute resolved? Is it to have the two parties go to Court and come back with an Order? Is there a way the City can be the one to get this dispute in front of the District Court (and, if so, is that the best option)? Short version: firearm is reported stolen in County #1 and inputted into NCIC. Pawnshop in County #2 has the firearm, finds out it is stolen, and contacts the agency that inputted the firearm into NCIC. There's a fact dispute about what happens next. Pawnshop says that the agency that inputted the firearm into NCIC said they would come retrieve the gun but 2 years went by and they never did. Originating agency says that they went to retrieve the gun, but the pawnshop refused to give it to them. Regardless, 2+ years later the gun is sold to a person in County #1...and the City's 2+ PD comes into contact with that person and runs the gun and gets a hit in NCIC. The complicating wrinkle is that the elected DA in County #1 (i.e. the County where the PD that currently has the firearm in its possession is located) is taking the position that the person who purchased the gun from the pawnshop is the rightful owner and telling the PD that they need to return the gun to that person. The DA in County #2 (i.e. the County in which the gun was stolen and where the other PD that inputted the gun into NCIC is located) is telling the PD that they have to turn the gun over to the original owner. So the PD has 2 DA's giving them conflicting directives. Any feedback / insight would be appreciated. Matt
JO
Jones, Orval E
Wed, Feb 28, 2024 2:25 PM

Filing a CV case as Beth Anne did is one way to go.  There is also a CP docket (Criminal Property return) which is less expensive to file ($10 filing fee plus $10 service fee in Oklahoma County), and can be filed by anyone with a claimed interest in the property.  In addition to 11 O.S. 34-104 (which deals expressly with property no longer needed as evidence which remains unclaimed), one should also consult 22 O.S. 1321 et seq.  Both were amended in 2021 to more closely interrelate with each other.

A municipality also can file a motion for instructions in a criminal case (22 O.S. 1321) if one has been filed.  The administrative office of the courts has forms and instructions for owners with competing claims to file pursuant to 22 O.S. 1321 "https://www.oscn.net/static/forms/aoc_forms/personalproperty.asp."

Venue will be in the county where the firearm is located.  Either claimed owner or the city with possession can file (citing one of the two pertinent statutes).  Oklahoma City provides the court forms from the administrative office of the courts and requires the person filing the claim to notify the city and the adverse claimant.  Many people think a stolen firearm can be washed through a pawn shop, but I do not agree with that assessment.  Pawn shops rarely appear in court when their title is based on a pawn transaction with a thief or successor.  When they do show up, the original owner whose property was stolen is likely to prevail nevertheless.

Orval Edwin Jones
City of OKC

-----Original Message-----
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2024 12:03:25 -0600
From: Matt Love matt.love@gmail.com
Subject: [Oama] Competing Claim on Property at the PD

Curious if anyone has ever confronted this weird legal issue before:

City's PD has a piece of property in its possession that isn't need for evidentiary purposes and there are two people who are claiming to be the owners of the property (and each wants the property). What is the best way to get the ownership dispute resolved? Is it to have the two parties go to Court and come back with an Order? Is there a way the City can be the one to get this dispute in front of the District Court (and, if so, is that the best option)?

Short version: firearm is reported stolen in County #1 and inputted into NCIC. Pawnshop in County #2 has the firearm, finds out it is stolen, and contacts the agency that inputted the firearm into NCIC. There's a fact dispute about what happens next. Pawnshop says that the agency that inputted the firearm into NCIC said they would come retrieve the gun but 2 years went by and they never did. Originating agency says that they went to retrieve the gun, but the pawnshop refused to give it to them. Regardless,
2+ years later the gun is sold to a person in County #1...and the City's 2+ PD comes into contact with that person and runs the gun and gets a hit in NCIC.

The complicating wrinkle is that the elected DA in County #1 (i.e. the County where the PD that currently has the firearm in its possession is located) is taking the position that the person who purchased the gun from the pawnshop is the rightful owner and telling the PD that they need to return the gun to that person. The DA in County #2 (i.e. the County in which the gun was stolen and where the other PD that inputted the gun into NCIC is located) is telling the PD that they have to turn the gun over to the original owner. So the PD has 2 DA's giving them conflicting directives.

Any feedback / insight would be appreciated.

Matt

Filing a CV case as Beth Anne did is one way to go. There is also a CP docket (Criminal Property return) which is less expensive to file ($10 filing fee plus $10 service fee in Oklahoma County), and can be filed by anyone with a claimed interest in the property. In addition to 11 O.S. 34-104 (which deals expressly with property no longer needed as evidence which remains unclaimed), one should also consult 22 O.S. 1321 et seq. Both were amended in 2021 to more closely interrelate with each other. A municipality also can file a motion for instructions in a criminal case (22 O.S. 1321) if one has been filed. The administrative office of the courts has forms and instructions for owners with competing claims to file pursuant to 22 O.S. 1321 "https://www.oscn.net/static/forms/aoc_forms/personalproperty.asp." Venue will be in the county where the firearm is located. Either claimed owner or the city with possession can file (citing one of the two pertinent statutes). Oklahoma City provides the court forms from the administrative office of the courts and requires the person filing the claim to notify the city and the adverse claimant. Many people think a stolen firearm can be washed through a pawn shop, but I do not agree with that assessment. Pawn shops rarely appear in court when their title is based on a pawn transaction with a thief or successor. When they do show up, the original owner whose property was stolen is likely to prevail nevertheless. Orval Edwin Jones City of OKC -----Original Message----- Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2024 12:03:25 -0600 From: Matt Love <matt.love@gmail.com> Subject: [Oama] Competing Claim on Property at the PD Curious if anyone has ever confronted this weird legal issue before: City's PD has a piece of property in its possession that isn't need for evidentiary purposes and there are two people who are claiming to be the owners of the property (and each wants the property). What is the best way to get the ownership dispute resolved? Is it to have the two parties go to Court and come back with an Order? Is there a way the City can be the one to get this dispute in front of the District Court (and, if so, is that the best option)? Short version: firearm is reported stolen in County #1 and inputted into NCIC. Pawnshop in County #2 has the firearm, finds out it is stolen, and contacts the agency that inputted the firearm into NCIC. There's a fact dispute about what happens next. Pawnshop says that the agency that inputted the firearm into NCIC said they would come retrieve the gun but 2 years went by and they never did. Originating agency says that they went to retrieve the gun, but the pawnshop refused to give it to them. Regardless, 2+ years later the gun is sold to a person in County #1...and the City's 2+ PD comes into contact with that person and runs the gun and gets a hit in NCIC. The complicating wrinkle is that the elected DA in County #1 (i.e. the County where the PD that currently has the firearm in its possession is located) is taking the position that the person who purchased the gun from the pawnshop is the rightful owner and telling the PD that they need to return the gun to that person. The DA in County #2 (i.e. the County in which the gun was stolen and where the other PD that inputted the gun into NCIC is located) is telling the PD that they have to turn the gun over to the original owner. So the PD has 2 DA's giving them conflicting directives. Any feedback / insight would be appreciated. Matt