Agilent 3458A Positive Experience
Several months ago, I decided to pursue a 3458A. I sought advice on this
list as well as calling the Agilent Cal Lab in Loveland, CO, speaking with
Gary Biermann who was most helpful in guiding my thoughts, basically
favoring vintage units at the right price rather than new units for reasons
that will become clear below.
I acquired two 3458A's, an HP unit from 1997 and an Agilent unit from 2003.
Both seemed to work well and seemed to be identical, particularly the A5
boards. I decided to modify the A5 boards, installing sockets for the EPROM
and all 3 of the Dallas NVRAM's. I managed to lose the data in the CALRAM
from the HP unit, by trying to read the chip while still warm from the
removal process, requiring me to 're-cal' the meter using 'in house'
equipment.
After leaving the meters on for several weeks, with all functions seemingly
correct, I sent both to Agilent for their Agilent Calibration for $579.81
each. Both passed (with my 'home-cal'd' unit being off on only 2 of the AC
ranges and the Agilent unit being off only in the DC Gain) and were returned
in about 10 days, amazingly fast.
A few days after their return, Gary Biermann called to ask how the meters
were doing, something I was not expecting at all. After a pleasant chat, he
invited me to consider their Agilent Repair Agreement, which both units were
now eligible for as a result of having successfully passed the calibration.
The Repair Per Incident price is now $2835.98. It was about $2300 and
change when I started this process several months ago. The Repair Agreement
is $175.20 per year (as it was several months ago) with a 2% discount for
multiyear agreements up to a maximum of a 5 year agreement.
I called Agilent and asked to purchase the Repair agreement. They were a
bit unsure of whether or not I could do that on those meters. I explained
that Gary Biermann had told me the meters were eligible and they immediately
stated that 'he's the man'. Within two days, I had a formal quote for the
agreement and wound up purchasing a 5 year agreement for both units.
I had read a number of posts about dealing with Agilent on these meters and
can personally attest that Agilent was an absolute pleasure to deal with and
Gary Biermann went 'above and beyond', taking a personal interest in these
meters and that they function to spec's.
Hope this helps someone else in their decision making.
Joe
This is great to know Joe. Just curious, 'home cal'd' 3458a sounds
like a challenge. When you say 2 of the AC ranges were off, which
ones? Do you have a variable AC voltage and frequency source to use,
or did you use some other substitute?
With the Agilent unit DC gain needing adjustment, did the any DC or
ohms functions read off specifications before the Agilent was calibrated?
At 09:09 02/10/2012, J. L. Trantham wrote:
requiring me to 're-cal' the meter using 'in house'
equipment.
After leaving the meters on for several weeks, with all functions seemingly
correct, I sent both to Agilent for their Agilent Calibration for $579.81
each. Both passed (with my 'home-cal'd' unit being off on only 2 of the AC
ranges and the Agilent unit being off only in the DC Gain) and were returned
in about 10 days, amazingly fast.
Best Wishes,
Marv Gozum
Philadelphia
And some of their competition wonder why they never get any repeat sales ..
I doubt such "above and beyond" is in many if any MBA or today's "how
to increase your quarterly profits" text books
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Marv Gozum @ JHN marvin.gozum@jefferson.edu
This is great to know Joe. Just curious, 'home cal'd' 3458a sounds like a
challenge. When you say 2 of the AC ranges were off, which ones? Do you
have a variable AC voltage and frequency source to use, or did you use some
other substitute?
With the Agilent unit DC gain needing adjustment, did the any DC or ohms
functions read off specifications before the Agilent was calibrated?
At 09:09 02/10/2012, J. L. Trantham wrote:
requiring me to 're-cal' the meter using 'in house'
equipment.
After leaving the meters on for several weeks, with all functions
seemingly
correct, I sent both to Agilent for their Agilent Calibration for $579.81
each. Both passed (with my 'home-cal'd' unit being off on only 2 of the
AC
ranges and the Agilent unit being off only in the DC Gain) and were
returned
in about 10 days, amazingly fast.
Best Wishes,
Marv Gozum
Philadelphia
volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Marv,
My 'home cal' event used a Fluke 731B read by a recently calibrated (by
Ametek) Solartron 7081 and a Gray Inst. Co. 10K resistor read by the 7081
and an HP 3326A feeding a short piece of RG58 connected to a TEK 50 ohm BNC
(f) to BNC (m) termination plugged into a Pomona BNC to banana adapter.
I am away from home this weekend but will be back on Sunday.
As I recall (I will have to refer to the calibration documents) the only
issue for the HP unit was 2 of the 4 AC ranges were off slightly and the
Agilent unit was off on the DC Gain. When I get home, I will dig the data
out. Agilent provided an 'as received' assessment and an 'as calibrated'
assessment.
I was amazed that I was able to do such a good job with my instruments. It
gives me much confidence in the Solartron 7081, 731B, and 10K resistor as
well as the 3326A.
I had no way to really measure the AC voltage from the 3326A and I just used
it to supply the desired amplitude and frequency. Makes me think the 3326A
is fairly accurate.
Another meter I recently had to calibrate was a 3478A where I needed an AC
current source.
What would the list recommend for a 'source' for AC current, as read by a
3458A, as a 'calibration source' for such efforts?
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Marv Gozum @ JHN
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 1:15 PM
To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement; 'Discussion of precise
voltage measurement'
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Agilent 3458A Positive Experience
This is great to know Joe. Just curious, 'home cal'd' 3458a sounds
like a challenge. When you say 2 of the AC ranges were off, which
ones? Do you have a variable AC voltage and frequency source to use,
or did you use some other substitute?
With the Agilent unit DC gain needing adjustment, did the any DC or
ohms functions read off specifications before the Agilent was calibrated?
At 09:09 02/10/2012, J. L. Trantham wrote:
requiring me to 're-cal' the meter using 'in house'
equipment.
After leaving the meters on for several weeks, with all functions seemingly
correct, I sent both to Agilent for their Agilent Calibration for $579.81
each. Both passed (with my 'home-cal'd' unit being off on only 2 of the AC
ranges and the Agilent unit being off only in the DC Gain) and were
returned
in about 10 days, amazingly fast.
Best Wishes,
Marv Gozum
Philadelphia
volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
What would the list recommend for a 'source' for AC current, as read by a
3458A, as a 'calibration source' for such efforts?
A low distortion audio oscillator followed by a "consumer" audio power
amplifier is probably the most economical way to do that.
Marv,
The 'home-cal'd' unit 'failed' on only the 'AC VOLT High Freq' for the 10 V
Range with 3 V input at 4 and 8 MHz. 3 V input at 2 and 10 MHz passed along
with all values at the 10 mV, 100 mV, and 1 V ranges. I used an
uncalibrated HP 3326A, a short piece of RG58 and a Tektronix 50 ohm load to
a BNC to Banana adapter. Both 4 and 8 MHz failed with an over reading by
about .12 V at 4 MHz and .22 V at 8 MHz. This suggests that my 3326A
outputs a slightly low amplitude at those frequencies.
All other ranges were cal'd using my Solartron 7081 as a 'transfer standard'
reading my Fluke 731B at 10 V and a Gray Instruments 10 K resistor. I have
to say that calibrating the 3458A was quite easy, following the instructions
in the Calibration Manual, much easier than calibrating my 3478A that I did
recently.
The Agilent unit failed all of the DC VOLT GAIN except the 100 mV range with
+100 mV input. The -100 mV input and both + and - inputs for the 1 V, 10 V,
100 V, and 1000 V ranges all failed, though it was very close, all ranges
being off by about 4 ppm. According to Agilent, all other measurements
PASSED in the 'As Received' category.
Prior to sending them back, I did notice that the Agilent unit read my 731B
10 V about 10 uV higher than the HP unit, even before I 'home-cal'd' the HP
unit. The HP unit and my Solartron 7081 seemed to agree with in 2 or 3 uV.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Marv Gozum @ JHN
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 1:15 PM
To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement; 'Discussion of precise
voltage measurement'
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Agilent 3458A Positive Experience
This is great to know Joe. Just curious, 'home cal'd' 3458a sounds
like a challenge. When you say 2 of the AC ranges were off, which
ones? Do you have a variable AC voltage and frequency source to use,
or did you use some other substitute?
With the Agilent unit DC gain needing adjustment, did the any DC or
ohms functions read off specifications before the Agilent was calibrated?
At 09:09 02/10/2012, J. L. Trantham wrote:
requiring me to 're-cal' the meter using 'in house'
equipment.
After leaving the meters on for several weeks, with all functions
seemingly correct, I sent both to Agilent for their Agilent Calibration
for $579.81 each. Both passed (with my 'home-cal'd' unit being off on
only 2 of the AC ranges and the Agilent unit being off only in the DC
Gain) and were returned in about 10 days, amazingly fast.
Best Wishes,
Marv Gozum
Philadelphia
volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Hi Joe:
Was the HP unit prior to 1972 and the Agilent unit after that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volt
I remember using the 3458 in a number of automated systems and when the definition changed the cal lab manager and I
compared the newer units (green sticker AFAICR) with the older units and the difference in their readings corresponded
to the change in the official volt.
Have Fun,
Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html
J. L. Trantham wrote:
Marv,
The 'home-cal'd' unit 'failed' on only the 'AC VOLT High Freq' for the 10 V
Range with 3 V input at 4 and 8 MHz. 3 V input at 2 and 10 MHz passed along
with all values at the 10 mV, 100 mV, and 1 V ranges. I used an
uncalibrated HP 3326A, a short piece of RG58 and a Tektronix 50 ohm load to
a BNC to Banana adapter. Both 4 and 8 MHz failed with an over reading by
about .12 V at 4 MHz and .22 V at 8 MHz. This suggests that my 3326A
outputs a slightly low amplitude at those frequencies.
All other ranges were cal'd using my Solartron 7081 as a 'transfer standard'
reading my Fluke 731B at 10 V and a Gray Instruments 10 K resistor. I have
to say that calibrating the 3458A was quite easy, following the instructions
in the Calibration Manual, much easier than calibrating my 3478A that I did
recently.
The Agilent unit failed all of the DC VOLT GAIN except the 100 mV range with
+100 mV input. The -100 mV input and both + and - inputs for the 1 V, 10 V,
100 V, and 1000 V ranges all failed, though it was very close, all ranges
being off by about 4 ppm. According to Agilent, all other measurements
PASSED in the 'As Received' category.
Prior to sending them back, I did notice that the Agilent unit read my 731B
10 V about 10 uV higher than the HP unit, even before I 'home-cal'd' the HP
unit. The HP unit and my Solartron 7081 seemed to agree with in 2 or 3 uV.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Marv Gozum @ JHN
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 1:15 PM
To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement; 'Discussion of precise
voltage measurement'
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Agilent 3458A Positive Experience
This is great to know Joe. Just curious, 'home cal'd' 3458a sounds
like a challenge. When you say 2 of the AC ranges were off, which
ones? Do you have a variable AC voltage and frequency source to use,
or did you use some other substitute?
With the Agilent unit DC gain needing adjustment, did the any DC or
ohms functions read off specifications before the Agilent was calibrated?
At 09:09 02/10/2012, J. L. Trantham wrote:
requiring me to 're-cal' the meter using 'in house'
equipment.
After leaving the meters on for several weeks, with all functions
seemingly correct, I sent both to Agilent for their Agilent Calibration
for $579.81 each. Both passed (with my 'home-cal'd' unit being off on
only 2 of the AC ranges and the Agilent unit being off only in the DC
Gain) and were returned in about 10 days, amazingly fast.
Best Wishes,
Marv Gozum
Philadelphia
volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Will,
Thanks for the suggestion. I have some 8 ohm loads and an amplifier I was
looking for a purpose for. I'll have to give it a try.
Thanks.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Will
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 9:02 AM
To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Agilent 3458A Positive Experience
What would the list recommend for a 'source' for AC current, as read
by a 3458A, as a 'calibration source' for such efforts?
A low distortion audio oscillator followed by a "consumer" audio power
amplifier is probably the most economical way to do that.
volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Brooke,
Both units were relatively 'recent' vintages. The HP unit was from 1997 and
the Agilent unit from 2003 and they seem to be identical.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Brooke Clarke
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 8:24 PM
To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Agilent 3458A Positive Experience
Hi Joe:
Was the HP unit prior to 1972 and the Agilent unit after that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volt
I remember using the 3458 in a number of automated systems and when the
definition changed the cal lab manager and I
compared the newer units (green sticker AFAICR) with the older units and the
difference in their readings corresponded
to the change in the official volt.
Have Fun,
Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html
J. L. Trantham wrote:
Marv,
The 'home-cal'd' unit 'failed' on only the 'AC VOLT High Freq' for the
10 V Range with 3 V input at 4 and 8 MHz. 3 V input at 2 and 10 MHz
passed along with all values at the 10 mV, 100 mV, and 1 V ranges. I
used an uncalibrated HP 3326A, a short piece of RG58 and a Tektronix
50 ohm load to a BNC to Banana adapter. Both 4 and 8 MHz failed with
an over reading by about .12 V at 4 MHz and .22 V at 8 MHz. This
suggests that my 3326A outputs a slightly low amplitude at those
frequencies.
All other ranges were cal'd using my Solartron 7081 as a 'transfer
standard' reading my Fluke 731B at 10 V and a Gray Instruments 10 K
resistor. I have to say that calibrating the 3458A was quite easy,
following the instructions in the Calibration Manual, much easier than
calibrating my 3478A that I did recently.
The Agilent unit failed all of the DC VOLT GAIN except the 100 mV
range with
+100 mV input. The -100 mV input and both + and - inputs for the 1 V,
+10 V,
100 V, and 1000 V ranges all failed, though it was very close, all
ranges being off by about 4 ppm. According to Agilent, all other
measurements PASSED in the 'As Received' category.
Prior to sending them back, I did notice that the Agilent unit read my
731B 10 V about 10 uV higher than the HP unit, even before I
'home-cal'd' the HP unit. The HP unit and my Solartron 7081 seemed to
agree with in 2 or 3 uV.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com]
On Behalf Of Marv Gozum @ JHN
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 1:15 PM
To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement; 'Discussion of precise
voltage measurement'
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Agilent 3458A Positive Experience
This is great to know Joe. Just curious, 'home cal'd' 3458a sounds
like a challenge. When you say 2 of the AC ranges were off, which
ones? Do you have a variable AC voltage and frequency source to use,
or did you use some other substitute?
With the Agilent unit DC gain needing adjustment, did the any DC or
ohms functions read off specifications before the Agilent was
calibrated?
At 09:09 02/10/2012, J. L. Trantham wrote:
requiring me to 're-cal' the meter using 'in house' equipment.
After leaving the meters on for several weeks, with all functions
seemingly correct, I sent both to Agilent for their Agilent
Calibration for $579.81 each. Both passed (with my 'home-cal'd' unit
being off on only 2 of the AC ranges and the Agilent unit being off
only in the DC
Gain) and were returned in about 10 days, amazingly fast.
Best Wishes,
Marv Gozum
Philadelphia
volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
I went looking for what has clearly happened to the HP/Agilent campus
in Loveland, and find it has definitely been closed since ~ 2007 and
sold to the city for development.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/27468064/detail.html
So when folks refer to Loveland, CO, were is Agilent now in that
city, these days?
The Agilent website and existing addresses for 3458a support refers
to the closed campus. The T&M division has an address in Englewood
CO as a PO box, and both contact numbers are 1800 numbers.
I can trace a Gary Biermann to a suburbian home in Loveland, CO via google.
Thoughts or clarifications, anyone?
At 09:09 AM 2/10/2012, J. L. Trantham wrote:
Several months ago, I decided to pursue a 3458A. I sought advice on this
list as well as calling the Agilent Cal Lab in Loveland, CO, speaking with
Gary Biermann who was most helpful in guiding my thoughts, basically
favoring vintage units at the right price rather than new units for reasons
that will become clear below.
Sincerely,
Marv Gozum
Philadelphia, PA