Ron, I have a real sore spot when it comes to impediments to young people being allowed to learn. For if they don't how will they ever accomplish. I don't know the exact numbers of young people who get their Masters or OUPV(6 Pack) Licenses. But, there are a lot more than is generally recognized. My recollections on the exact details of license getting is a little old, but as I recall. Inland OUVP's and Masters can be got when you are 18. Near Coastal and Ocean endorsements can be had for OUVP at 18, and Masters at 19. If you graduate at 22 from Cal Maritime or similar, you have a 3rd Mates License Unlimited Oceans, which can be substituted for a 100 ton Master, Unlimited. There are other substitutions which are legal. The 100 ton Ocean Operators License was authorized in 1956, the OUVP in 1941. The OC license became a Master Near Coastal license about 1985. I think the OUVP is restricted to 25 tons, but that is probably old information. Pat Schenk and I had our OUVP licenses for the Columbia River Bar in 1965. We were the first "baby boomers" to get such on the West Coast, but at least on the Oregon/WA coast. We were 19 and soon got our OC licenses for the same area. Larry Heasley's daughter had her license right after graduating from HS and ran out of the Columbia River. I can dimly recall several other fresh out of HS kids who got their licenses and ran the Columbia and other nearby rivers. And I have heard rumors of others in California. I am sure that similar situations exist on the US East Coast. When I was 19, I looked like I was 15 and I still looked like I was 16 when I was 22 and had been carrying passengers for 4 years. You can just imagine the cracks I used to get from passengers about where the real captain was. In the sixty's an Australian aircraft carrier sliced an American destroyer in half, while on maneuvers. The destroyer was being conned by a 20 year old lieutenant. He turned across the bow of the carrier and the ship got axed in half. Point is that the military teaches young people to do real things, not that a 30 year old could not or has not made similar mistakes. My oldest boy was in the Civil Air Patrol and was working on the highest, last rung; Colonel Cadet. I think it's called the Jimmy Doolittle Award. At that time no Oregon cadet had obtained to that in five years, in California they regularly turned out 10 or more every year. He found it very difficult to make it, since there were no recent nearby recipients to mentor with. In point of fact, he tried the exam twice and did not pass the final 3rd part. It is commonly understood that in every activity it takes a certain minimum critical mass to sustain it; whether it be Civil Air Patrol, gymnastics, merchant marine, etc. We learn from each other and the process is not a straight line. There does not appear to be a single HS in Oregon that has any of the traditional Wood or Metal shop classes, this is outrageous. There are several recent charter schools set up teach kids maritime skills, in Calif, Washington and on the east coast. When my ten year old was with me on a 4 month, 8000 mile delivery trip, I taught him to do collision avoidance with high speed ships. It took him about a month to become proficient enough, that I generally let him do the whole process by himself, even at night. He learned to use the radar, plot the course and speed and estimate CPA. With that he would make course changes and evaluate the results to achieve the acceptable separation. If the situation did not conform to our guidelines, he would wake me and I would generally make suggestions, which he would carry out. It's easier to teach the kids than the adults, as the latter don't necessarily want to learn. Some kids have already become adults in that they don't want to learn anymore. Why wait until that boundary has been crossed? In a nutshell, the problem with the kids is the adults. We have met the enemy and he is us. You can't learn responsibility or judgment out of a book. Wisdom is acquired by making mistakes and being taught the proper techniques by those who have preceded you. Going to sea is not child's play, we all owe the next generation the assistance they need to become proficient. Book learning is only part of the process. Mike _____________________________________ Capt. Mike Maurice Tigard Oregon(Near Portland)