Empathy List Archives

MC

Marty Campanella

Sat, Sep 28, 2013 10:17 AM

OK, picking a boat for a 6,000 mile multi-year journey is a personal
decision and has been discussed in depth. An issue which has been the
subject of my off line discussions is fuel use over a 6,000 mile trip and
the effect that fuel consumption will have on boat resale over the next
couple of years.

Among my friends the rate of fuel consumption varies from 1/2 nautical mile
per gallon to 6 nm per gallon. Over 6,000 miles you have a fuel usage of
12,000 gallons to 1,000 gallons. An enormous cost difference.

The second part of the issue, effect on resale in the future, is an unknown.
Have rising fuel costs been factored into the prices of today's used boats
or will the future fuel cost increases result in even lower resale prices?

I have no hard evidence but again and again I hear complaints of the cost of
going on even short trips and at least here in the Midwest I can see by the
empty slips and the failure of boats to leave the dock that powerboat use is
down. If someone buys a high fuel consumption boat today will the resale
price be lower than expected three or four years from now because of these
fuel costs?

Don't have the answers, but someone buying a boat today should give some
thought to this issue.

Marty Campanella
Bay Pelican KK42

OK, picking a boat for a 6,000 mile multi-year journey is a personal decision and has been discussed in depth. An issue which has been the subject of my off line discussions is fuel use over a 6,000 mile trip and the effect that fuel consumption will have on boat resale over the next couple of years. Among my friends the rate of fuel consumption varies from 1/2 nautical mile per gallon to 6 nm per gallon. Over 6,000 miles you have a fuel usage of 12,000 gallons to 1,000 gallons. An enormous cost difference. The second part of the issue, effect on resale in the future, is an unknown. Have rising fuel costs been factored into the prices of today's used boats or will the future fuel cost increases result in even lower resale prices? I have no hard evidence but again and again I hear complaints of the cost of going on even short trips and at least here in the Midwest I can see by the empty slips and the failure of boats to leave the dock that powerboat use is down. If someone buys a high fuel consumption boat today will the resale price be lower than expected three or four years from now because of these fuel costs? Don't have the answers, but someone buying a boat today should give some thought to this issue. Marty Campanella Bay Pelican KK42

CR

CHRIS REIKERSDORFER

Sat, Sep 28, 2013 10:31 AM

Great points, but I would like to add one more...

Even though the cost of fuel is an issue, it pales in comparison to the
cost of maintenance, slip fees, storage. For example, we own a Sea Ray
480DB (clearly not an idea looper: air clearance 23' with radar tower,
0.51mpg over lifetime of ownership/operation, hard to handle/dock, etc.
solo, but we love it anyway).
For the record, my range is the following:
at 700rpm idle, 7.5knts, 2.25 nauts/gal >> range ~800 nauts
at 1975 cruise, 23 knts, 0.58 >> ~200 nauts

annual costs:
slip in Milwaukee: $4.5K
winter storage, indoor heated: $6K at $8/ft
maintenance, routine repairs, detailing: ~$10K
I budget about 10% of boat value as annual operating expenses, EXCLUDING
fuel

for what it is worth, my annual engine times are in the 50-75 hr range.
This year so far, I have filled the tanks 3 times, at 400gal ea, and
~$4/gal >> $4,800 in fuel.

The way I see it, it is not about running from place to place. It is a
lifestyle, and some of the best days are spent on the hook, swimming in the
lake, or taking the slow road across the lake....

just my $0.02.

CR

On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 5:17 AM, Marty Campanella baypelican@gmail.comwrote:

OK, picking a boat for a 6,000 mile multi-year journey is a personal
decision and has been discussed in depth. An issue which has been the
subject of my off line discussions is fuel use over a 6,000 mile trip and
the effect that fuel consumption will have on boat resale over the next
couple of years.

Among my friends the rate of fuel consumption varies from 1/2 nautical mile
per gallon to 6 nm per gallon. Over 6,000 miles you have a fuel usage of
12,000 gallons to 1,000 gallons. An enormous cost difference.

The second part of the issue, effect on resale in the future, is an
unknown.
Have rising fuel costs been factored into the prices of today's used boats
or will the future fuel cost increases result in even lower resale prices?

I have no hard evidence but again and again I hear complaints of the cost
of
going on even short trips and at least here in the Midwest I can see by the
empty slips and the failure of boats to leave the dock that powerboat use
is
down. If someone buys a high fuel consumption boat today will the resale
price be lower than expected three or four years from now because of these
fuel costs?

Don't have the answers, but someone buying a boat today should give some
thought to this issue.

Marty Campanella
Bay Pelican KK42

http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com

To modify your Great-Loop subscription options (change email address,
unsubscribe, etc.) go to:
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--
Chris Reikersdorfer, MD
Email: creik1965@gmail.com
Cell: 608-575-2035

The information contained in this e-mail message and any attachments may
*be *proprietary and is intended only for the confidential use of the
designated
*recipient named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended *
recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in
error and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in
error please notify me immediately at the e-mail address listed above.
Thank you.

Great points, but I would like to add one more... Even though the cost of fuel is an issue, it pales in comparison to the cost of maintenance, slip fees, storage. For example, we own a Sea Ray 480DB (clearly not an idea looper: air clearance 23' with radar tower, 0.51mpg over lifetime of ownership/operation, hard to handle/dock, etc. solo, but we love it anyway). For the record, my range is the following: at 700rpm idle, 7.5knts, 2.25 nauts/gal >> range ~800 nauts at 1975 cruise, 23 knts, 0.58 >> ~200 nauts annual costs: slip in Milwaukee: $4.5K winter storage, indoor heated: $6K at $8/ft maintenance, routine repairs, detailing: ~$10K I budget about 10% of boat value as annual operating expenses, EXCLUDING fuel for what it is worth, my annual engine times are in the 50-75 hr range. This year so far, I have filled the tanks 3 times, at 400gal ea, and ~$4/gal >> $4,800 in fuel. The way I see it, it is not about running from place to place. It is a lifestyle, and some of the best days are spent on the hook, swimming in the lake, or taking the slow road across the lake.... just my $0.02. CR On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 5:17 AM, Marty Campanella <baypelican@gmail.com>wrote: > OK, picking a boat for a 6,000 mile multi-year journey is a personal > decision and has been discussed in depth. An issue which has been the > subject of my off line discussions is fuel use over a 6,000 mile trip and > the effect that fuel consumption will have on boat resale over the next > couple of years. > > Among my friends the rate of fuel consumption varies from 1/2 nautical mile > per gallon to 6 nm per gallon. Over 6,000 miles you have a fuel usage of > 12,000 gallons to 1,000 gallons. An enormous cost difference. > > The second part of the issue, effect on resale in the future, is an > unknown. > Have rising fuel costs been factored into the prices of today's used boats > or will the future fuel cost increases result in even lower resale prices? > > I have no hard evidence but again and again I hear complaints of the cost > of > going on even short trips and at least here in the Midwest I can see by the > empty slips and the failure of boats to leave the dock that powerboat use > is > down. If someone buys a high fuel consumption boat today will the resale > price be lower than expected three or four years from now because of these > fuel costs? > > Don't have the answers, but someone buying a boat today should give some > thought to this issue. > > Marty Campanella > Bay Pelican KK42 > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com > > To modify your Great-Loop subscription options (change email address, > unsubscribe, etc.) go to: > http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/options/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com > -- Chris Reikersdorfer, MD Email: creik1965@gmail.com Cell: 608-575-2035 *The information contained in this e-mail message and any attachments may* *be **proprietary and is intended only for the confidential use of the designated* *recipient named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended * *recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in* *error and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this* *message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in* *error please notify me immediately at the e-mail address listed above.* *Thank you.*

MC

Marty Campanella

Sat, Sep 28, 2013 12:23 PM

Good point. A boat is not cheap. Maintenance and storage are the usual high
costs. However for a boat doing the Great Loop fuel should be considered.
Your boat, at the higher rpms, for example would take 12,000 gallons of fuel
to do the loop over 3 years, the fuel use would be 4,000 gallons a year. At
current prices this exceeds your maintenance costs.

Our best times on the boat are at anchor. Cost about a half a gallon to a
gallon a day to run the generator. Actually, at anchor we consumer more
dinghy gas than generator fuel.

Marty Campanella

Bay Pelican KK42

From: CHRIS REIKERSDORFER [mailto:creik1965@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2013 5:32 AM
To: Marty Campanella
Cc: great-loop@lists.trawlering.com
Subject: Re: GL: Boat for the Great Loop

Great points, but I would like to add one more...

Even though the cost of fuel is an issue, it pales in comparison to the cost
of maintenance, slip fees, storage. For example, we own a Sea Ray 480DB
(clearly not an idea looper: air clearance 23' with radar tower, 0.51mpg
over lifetime of ownership/operation, hard to handle/dock, etc. solo, but we
love it anyway).

For the record, my range is the following:

at 700rpm idle, 7.5knts, 2.25 nauts/gal >> range ~800 nauts

at 1975 cruise, 23 knts, 0.58 >> ~200 nauts

annual costs:

slip in Milwaukee: $4.5K

winter storage, indoor heated: $6K at $8/ft

maintenance, routine repairs, detailing: ~$10K

I budget about 10% of boat value as annual operating expenses, EXCLUDING
fuel

for what it is worth, my annual engine times are in the 50-75 hr range. This
year so far, I have filled the tanks 3 times, at 400gal ea, and ~$4/gal >>
$4,800 in fuel.

The way I see it, it is not about running from place to place. It is a
lifestyle, and some of the best days are spent on the hook, swimming in the
lake, or taking the slow road across the lake....

just my $0.02.

CR

<https://app.yesware.com/t/530de43c10dc495b7c7252561c826ff346f210bf/2102491c
0f3f7ecb9cb05e73a9f78b5a/spacer.gif>
<http://app.yesware.com/t/530de43c10dc495b7c7252561c826ff346f210bf/2102491c0
f3f7ecb9cb05e73a9f78b5a/spacer.gif>

On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 5:17 AM, Marty Campanella baypelican@gmail.com
wrote:

OK, picking a boat for a 6,000 mile multi-year journey is a personal
decision and has been discussed in depth. An issue which has been the
subject of my off line discussions is fuel use over a 6,000 mile trip and
the effect that fuel consumption will have on boat resale over the next
couple of years.

Among my friends the rate of fuel consumption varies from 1/2 nautical mile
per gallon to 6 nm per gallon. Over 6,000 miles you have a fuel usage of
12,000 gallons to 1,000 gallons. An enormous cost difference.

The second part of the issue, effect on resale in the future, is an unknown.
Have rising fuel costs been factored into the prices of today's used boats
or will the future fuel cost increases result in even lower resale prices?

I have no hard evidence but again and again I hear complaints of the cost of
going on even short trips and at least here in the Midwest I can see by the
empty slips and the failure of boats to leave the dock that powerboat use is
down. If someone buys a high fuel consumption boat today will the resale
price be lower than expected three or four years from now because of these
fuel costs?

Don't have the answers, but someone buying a boat today should give some
thought to this issue.

Marty Campanella
Bay Pelican KK42

http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com

To modify your Great-Loop subscription options (change email address,
unsubscribe, etc.) go to:
http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/options/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com

--
Chris Reikersdorfer, MD

Email: creik1965@gmail.com

Cell: 608-575-2035

The information contained in this e-mail message and any attachments may

be proprietary and is intended only for the confidential use of the
designated

recipient named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended

recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in

error and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this

message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in

error please notify me immediately at the e-mail address listed above.

Thank you.

Good point. A boat is not cheap. Maintenance and storage are the usual high costs. However for a boat doing the Great Loop fuel should be considered. Your boat, at the higher rpms, for example would take 12,000 gallons of fuel to do the loop over 3 years, the fuel use would be 4,000 gallons a year. At current prices this exceeds your maintenance costs. Our best times on the boat are at anchor. Cost about a half a gallon to a gallon a day to run the generator. Actually, at anchor we consumer more dinghy gas than generator fuel. Marty Campanella Bay Pelican KK42 From: CHRIS REIKERSDORFER [mailto:creik1965@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2013 5:32 AM To: Marty Campanella Cc: great-loop@lists.trawlering.com Subject: Re: GL: Boat for the Great Loop Great points, but I would like to add one more... Even though the cost of fuel is an issue, it pales in comparison to the cost of maintenance, slip fees, storage. For example, we own a Sea Ray 480DB (clearly not an idea looper: air clearance 23' with radar tower, 0.51mpg over lifetime of ownership/operation, hard to handle/dock, etc. solo, but we love it anyway). For the record, my range is the following: at 700rpm idle, 7.5knts, 2.25 nauts/gal >> range ~800 nauts at 1975 cruise, 23 knts, 0.58 >> ~200 nauts annual costs: slip in Milwaukee: $4.5K winter storage, indoor heated: $6K at $8/ft maintenance, routine repairs, detailing: ~$10K I budget about 10% of boat value as annual operating expenses, EXCLUDING fuel for what it is worth, my annual engine times are in the 50-75 hr range. This year so far, I have filled the tanks 3 times, at 400gal ea, and ~$4/gal >> $4,800 in fuel. The way I see it, it is not about running from place to place. It is a lifestyle, and some of the best days are spent on the hook, swimming in the lake, or taking the slow road across the lake.... just my $0.02. CR <https://app.yesware.com/t/530de43c10dc495b7c7252561c826ff346f210bf/2102491c 0f3f7ecb9cb05e73a9f78b5a/spacer.gif> <http://app.yesware.com/t/530de43c10dc495b7c7252561c826ff346f210bf/2102491c0 f3f7ecb9cb05e73a9f78b5a/spacer.gif> On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 5:17 AM, Marty Campanella <baypelican@gmail.com> wrote: OK, picking a boat for a 6,000 mile multi-year journey is a personal decision and has been discussed in depth. An issue which has been the subject of my off line discussions is fuel use over a 6,000 mile trip and the effect that fuel consumption will have on boat resale over the next couple of years. Among my friends the rate of fuel consumption varies from 1/2 nautical mile per gallon to 6 nm per gallon. Over 6,000 miles you have a fuel usage of 12,000 gallons to 1,000 gallons. An enormous cost difference. The second part of the issue, effect on resale in the future, is an unknown. Have rising fuel costs been factored into the prices of today's used boats or will the future fuel cost increases result in even lower resale prices? I have no hard evidence but again and again I hear complaints of the cost of going on even short trips and at least here in the Midwest I can see by the empty slips and the failure of boats to leave the dock that powerboat use is down. If someone buys a high fuel consumption boat today will the resale price be lower than expected three or four years from now because of these fuel costs? Don't have the answers, but someone buying a boat today should give some thought to this issue. Marty Campanella Bay Pelican KK42 _______________________________________________ http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com To modify your Great-Loop subscription options (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) go to: http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/options/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com -- Chris Reikersdorfer, MD Email: creik1965@gmail.com Cell: 608-575-2035 The information contained in this e-mail message and any attachments may be proprietary and is intended only for the confidential use of the designated recipient named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error please notify me immediately at the e-mail address listed above. Thank you.