Disclaimer -- this post written by a catamaran dealer

I was intrigued -- as perhaps many of you were -- by recent mention of
the 80-plus foot power cat noted by Jonah Jones, in Message #4, posted
Friday, July 16.

"We parked close to this catamaran when we were at Treasure Cay
recently. You could have a game of water polo between the hulls.

http://www.aftheriault.com/en/boats/fiber_int/hayfu_ii.htm  "

I'm guessing that that large cat's owner paid at least a few million dollars
(and probably more) to make that cat a reality. At first (and 2nd) glance, it
appears to be a high-quality degree of construction.

Of course, it's frequently difficult to get a true sense of a boat's
quality-and-construction from photos, but it certainly seems that great care
was put into many aspects of this vessel. The interior wood work looks quite
good -- the engine rooms seem to be especially well equipped, well lighted,
the wiring neatly run-and-tied, and with many of the features that one wants
to have easy access to designed to meet just that requirement.

Similarly, the exterior walkways look adequate and protected. And it appeared
that quality handrails were used plentifully and with good height-and-strength
about the exterior of the vessel.

And yet . . . there are some design features that inevitably would have my
clients telling me, "Sorry....but that's a deal-breaker right there!" It may
be of help to others still contemplating the construction of their own 40'...
or 60'....or 80' cat if I were to mention a few of the things a cat dealer
notes about this cat.

--  First off, there are the windows. Again, photos can provide misleading
perspectives so I may be in error here, but . . . as I looked at each photo,
it appears that very few of the windows are low enough so that someone seated
inside can view out of them. Time and again my clients tell me they find this
unacceptable in a vessel, and an immediate "deal-breaker."

--  It's not readily apparent that many (most?) of the windows can be opened.
Again, while at anchor or dockside, a lot of buyers with boating experience
want a boat that allows them to turn off the air conditioning, and enjoy "real
air" wafting through their vessel. And if, in fact, this cat DOES sport
opening ports, "good on ya, mate!"

--  Seating:  This is another design element about which I receive continual
feedback from clients (again, especially those with boating experience).
Oddly, this seems to be a frequently overlooked design consideration. First
off, the U-shaped dining area (unless that's a crews' dining table), seems
awfully snug, and certainly lacking in any type of individual seating
adjustment. For years, I've learned from my clients that the closer a boat
designer/builder can get to matching the ergonomics that home
builders-and-decorators have worked out over scores of years for home
interiors, the more satisfied you'll be when traveling or living aboard the
vessel. For example, do ANY of us have a comfortable home in which a dining
banquet (fixed settee and fixed table), was the dining design we chose for
greatest comfort when eating? Not in my experience -- no more so than if an
automobile's front seats were completely rigid and unadjustable. There's just
no way that seating height, seat-back angle, or distance-from-the-table can be
"right" for both someone who's 5'2" and 100 pounds, and someone else who's
6'5" and 220 lbs. That's why the better/more-comfortable dining experience
will include a free-standing dining table, with separate chairs. Yes, yes, I
know; one wants something that's usable in a seaway, too. But there are plenty
of inventive (and established) means of keeping individual chairs steady, and
non-sliding, even in a fairly boisterous sea. And, frankly, the
table-with-chairs design has become standard on most cats -- even sailing
models -- as "small" as 60' long. Thus, to see this rigid, closed-in,
non-adjustable dining situation aboard an 80-plus foot cat is .... a surprise.
(Because I've already ranted about windows, I won't linger about the seeming
absence of good visibility from that fixed settee/table -- perhaps it is okay
in actuality...but it doesn't look like it would be. In fact, it looks as
though possibly only the sliding "screens" along the right side will, when
slid back, provide a view outside of the yacht to a few of the diners.)

This same seating discomfort looks built-in in the helm station, too. I'm a
big fan of a modest-size table (seating for 2-to-4) in the pilot house of any
power cat over about 55' or 60'. It allows the skipper to keep an eye out,
while cruising on autopilot, yet still able to enjoy the company of the mate
and/or a few guests. But someone should just plain BAN upright, 90-degree
settee seatbacks. They're torture to most any adult's back within as little as
20 minutes (unless you're perpetually resting your elbows on the table).
Again, ALL ergonomics as they relate to interior living comfort (height of
counter tops, tables and window sills -- the optimum angle for dining-seating
vs. lounging-seating -- maximum height of TV [or computer] screens above/below
the seated person's eye height)....ALL of these calculations have been worked
out years ago. It takes all of about 30 minutes for a designer (or owner) to
access these various calculations from the internet. Similarly, a seat that is
too shallow (under the thighs), will soon, and repeatedly, give the person
seated a feeling of "slipping" off the seat . . . and this settee seat looks
very shallow.

In the interest of fair disclosure, I'll admit that even leading cat brands
that I've represented for 10 to 15 years CONTINUE to build boats that, as soon
as I step aboard a new model, I'm left wondering if the design group behind
this latest model has EVER either (a) gone to sea in one of their designs, or
(b) EVER read a simple book about the optimum parameters for human comfort in
an interior living space? And it's not that by ignoring these ergonomic
realities that the companies save money...often, doing it the 'right way'
wouldn't cost a penny more.

Moving on . . . If you have an 80-foot yacht, WHERE are the individual,
super-comfortable chairs...and foot-rests? A lone sofa -- L-shaped or
otherwise -- is NOT the optimum seating answer for all non-dining experiences
(i.e., reading, conversing, resting, viewing TV, attacking a crossword puzzle,
reading an engrossing book, and so on. And again, it appears that the windows
surrounding that sofa are higher than the sight-line of someone sitting on
that sofa.

Next . . . .Given the wonders that can be accomplished with various
counter-tops these days -- whether Corian, quartz, granite, pseudo-stone, or
whatever -- there is NO excuse (aboard a boat) for said counter NOT having at
least SOME bit of a lip (fiddle) along its edge so that if there's a bit of
liquid on said counter, it doesnt' inevitably go pouring onto the cabin sole.
Even in the calmest of harbors, a small motorized skiff need only pass close
by for SOME amount of movement to occur (yes, even aboard a large cat), and
any fluid on that counter-top will find itself pouring off that counter-top.
In a seaway? It's inevitable. (Curiously, while the very spacious galley
countertop seems to sport no fiddles, both the small table in the pilot house
and the counter-top aft, around the cockpit sink, DO appear to have fiddles.
To get even more picky, the fiddle on the table in the pilot house has no cut
out, so it can be difficult to get damp crumbs off the table top. Conversely,
there ARE cut-outs in the fiddle atop that cockpit counter top, thus making
the matter of swiping the surface clean of crumbs and such the easies to do.

A plus for this 80-footer is that it appears to do a VERY good job of
including handrails all around the edges of the galley counters. Bravo! That
is something that is almost always lacking in the production-built cats with
which I'm familiar. But why, then, wasn't equal attention paid to providing
similar hand-rails within the perimeter of the shower....where one will, at
times, be even more vulnerable to being thrown about. (You can't look out
windows as in a galley and see oncoming rollers-- and if you're washing your
hair while underway, and have your eyes shut, you are REALLY vulnerable to ANY
motion that the boat suddenly makes.) Similarly, there appear to be an absence
of handholds around critical areas (seating...along the overheads...etc.),
that a go-anywhere 80-footer (which this certainly seems to be), would benefit
from having installed. Because you have more motion up on the second level,
I'd especially like to see more (any?) handholds in the pilot house. Moving
across that large, open area in a seaway could throw you quite a distance. Fro
that reason, I like overhead rails (although, such rails can be problematic
for short crew members. So, 1 or 2 floor-to-ceiling poles -- or at least
handls/rails along a few bulkheads -- is desirable.

Exterior Design -- Given that this cat was probably custom-built for the
owner, we can assume it represents a look that he desired. And frankly, there
is a market for this type of chunky-looking, "expedition-type" yacht design.
(Nordhavn's enjoyed years of success with its "chunky,
trawler/expedition-type" look.) But, from the viewpoint of strictly "greatest
resale value," a sleeker design (although not necessarily flat-out,
"Italian-chic") is apt to resell faster, because it will appeal to a larger
group of buyers.

A larger objection -- despite the apparent high-quality of the interior
fit-out -- is that the all-wood interior is likely to be off-putting to many
prospective buyers. People, for example, almost never seek that in a home --
and especially, not the same wood, throughout, for ALL walls (builkheads),
doors, window frames, etc. Typically, the larger the yacht, the more often its
interior will be a combination of wood, fabrics, and other textured surfaces.
(Check out any boating magazine that features yachts in the 60' to 100'
range.) Again, I'm not harping on a personal preference -- but rather, passing
along what years of clients have educated me to. Of course, as with the
exterior design, if this near-all-wood interior is what the original owner
wanted, then he got the specific yacht he desired....and thus was probably
highly pleased with that choice. If so, bravo to him for that. But if YOU are
currently considering the interior design options for a power cat you're
hoping to have built -- and if resale value is important to you -- I recommend
not selecting an all-wood interior.

A LOT of compromises must be accepted in trying to create a 35'
cruising-power-cat....fewer in a 60-footer....and by the time you move beyond
75 feet, one hopes that a whole slew of beneficial-and-proven design features
(some enhancing safety, ALL increasing ergonomic comfort) would be standard in
a big-cat's design.

Rod Gibbons
Cruising Cats USA
Seattle - San Francisco Bay - Hawaii

Rod:
Thank you also for your articulate and detailed review of this enormous
Expedition style cat.  My lady and I love the Expedition look, but your
comments brought several things to light.  Just the same, I'd love to have
such a yacht if only to be critiqued, and if I'm lucky enough to end up with
it, I'll drop it by your place for a re-fit.
Tex in Berlin
--- On Sat, 7/17/10, Rod Gibbons rodgibbons@mindspring.com wrote:

From: Rod Gibbons rodgibbons@mindspring.com
Subject: [PCW] Musings on an 80-plus-foot power cat.
To: power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Date: Saturday, July 17, 2010, 11:09 AM

Disclaimer -- this post written by a catamaran dealer

I was intrigued -- as perhaps many of you were -- by recent mention of
the 80-plus foot power cat noted by Jonah Jones, in Message #4, posted
Friday, July 16.

"We parked close to this catamaran when we were at Treasure Cay
recently. You could have a game of water polo between the hulls.

http://www.aftheriault.com/en/boats/fiber_int/hayfu_ii.htm  "

I'm guessing that that large cat's owner paid at least a few million dollars
(and probably more) to make that cat a reality. At first (and 2nd) glance, it
appears to be a high-quality degree of construction.

Of course, it's frequently difficult to get a true sense of a boat's
quality-and-construction from photos, but it certainly seems that great care
was put into many aspects of this vessel. The interior wood work looks quite
good -- the engine rooms seem to be especially well equipped, well lighted,
the wiring neatly run-and-tied, and with many of the features that one wants
to have easy access to designed to meet just that requirement.

Similarly, the exterior walkways look adequate and protected. And it appeared
that quality handrails were used plentifully and with good
height-and-strength
about the exterior of the vessel.

And yet . . . there are some design features that inevitably would have my
clients telling me, "Sorry....but that's a deal-breaker right there!" It may
be of help to others still contemplating the construction of their own 40'...
or 60'....or 80' cat if I were to mention a few of the things a cat dealer
notes about this cat.

--  First off, there are the windows. Again, photos can provide misleading
perspectives so I may be in error here, but . . . as I looked at each photo,
it appears that very few of the windows are low enough so that someone seated
inside can view out of them. Time and again my clients tell me they find this
unacceptable in a vessel, and an immediate "deal-breaker."

--  It's not readily apparent that many (most?) of the windows can be opened.
Again, while at anchor or dockside, a lot of buyers with boating experience
want a boat that allows them to turn off the air conditioning, and enjoy
"real
air" wafting through their vessel. And if, in fact, this cat DOES sport
opening ports, "good on ya, mate!"

--  Seating:  This is another design element about which I receive continual
feedback from clients (again, especially those with boating experience).
Oddly, this seems to be a frequently overlooked design consideration. First
off, the U-shaped dining area (unless that's a crews' dining table), seems
awfully snug, and certainly lacking in any type of individual seating
adjustment. For years, I've learned from my clients that the closer a boat
designer/builder can get to matching the ergonomics that home
builders-and-decorators have worked out over scores of years for home
interiors, the more satisfied you'll be when traveling or living aboard the
vessel. For example, do ANY of us have a comfortable home in which a dining
banquet (fixed settee and fixed table), was the dining design we chose for
greatest comfort when eating? Not in my experience -- no more so than if an
automobile's front seats were completely rigid and unadjustable. There's just
no way that seating height, seat-back angle, or distance-from-the-table can
be
"right" for both someone who's 5'2" and 100 pounds, and someone else who's
6'5" and 220 lbs. That's why the better/more-comfortable dining experience
will include a free-standing dining table, with separate chairs. Yes, yes, I
know; one wants something that's usable in a seaway, too. But there are
plenty
of inventive (and established) means of keeping individual chairs steady, and
non-sliding, even in a fairly boisterous sea. And, frankly, the
table-with-chairs design has become standard on most cats -- even sailing
models -- as "small" as 60' long. Thus, to see this rigid, closed-in,
non-adjustable dining situation aboard an 80-plus foot cat is .... a
surprise.
(Because I've already ranted about windows, I won't linger about the seeming
absence of good visibility from that fixed settee/table -- perhaps it is okay
in actuality...but it doesn't look like it would be. In fact, it looks as
though possibly only the sliding "screens" along the right side will, when
slid back, provide a view outside of the yacht to a few of the diners.)

This same seating discomfort looks built-in in the helm station, too. I'm a
big fan of a modest-size table (seating for 2-to-4) in the pilot house of any
power cat over about 55' or 60'. It allows the skipper to keep an eye out,
while cruising on autopilot, yet still able to enjoy the company of the mate
and/or a few guests. But someone should just plain BAN upright, 90-degree
settee seatbacks. They're torture to most any adult's back within as little
as
20 minutes (unless you're perpetually resting your elbows on the table).
Again, ALL ergonomics as they relate to interior living comfort (height of
counter tops, tables and window sills -- the optimum angle for dining-seating
vs. lounging-seating -- maximum height of TV [or computer] screens
above/below
the seated person's eye height)....ALL of these calculations have been worked
out years ago. It takes all of about 30 minutes for a designer (or owner) to
access these various calculations from the internet. Similarly, a seat that
is
too shallow (under the thighs), will soon, and repeatedly, give the person
seated a feeling of "slipping" off the seat . . . and this settee seat looks
very shallow.

In the interest of fair disclosure, I'll admit that even leading cat brands
that I've represented for 10 to 15 years CONTINUE to build boats that, as
soon
as I step aboard a new model, I'm left wondering if the design group behind
this latest model has EVER either (a) gone to sea in one of their designs, or
(b) EVER read a simple book about the optimum parameters for human comfort in
an interior living space? And it's not that by ignoring these ergonomic
realities that the companies save money...often, doing it the 'right way'
wouldn't cost a penny more.

Moving on . . . If you have an 80-foot yacht, WHERE are the individual,
super-comfortable chairs...and foot-rests? A lone sofa -- L-shaped or
otherwise -- is NOT the optimum seating answer for all non-dining experiences
(i.e., reading, conversing, resting, viewing TV, attacking a crossword
puzzle,
reading an engrossing book, and so on. And again, it appears that the windows
surrounding that sofa are higher than the sight-line of someone sitting on
that sofa.

Next . . . .Given the wonders that can be accomplished with various
counter-tops these days -- whether Corian, quartz, granite, pseudo-stone, or
whatever -- there is NO excuse (aboard a boat) for said counter NOT having at
least SOME bit of a lip (fiddle) along its edge so that if there's a bit of
liquid on said counter, it doesnt' inevitably go pouring onto the cabin sole.
Even in the calmest of harbors, a small motorized skiff need only pass close
by for SOME amount of movement to occur (yes, even aboard a large cat), and
any fluid on that counter-top will find itself pouring off that counter-top.
In a seaway? It's inevitable. (Curiously, while the very spacious galley
countertop seems to sport no fiddles, both the small table in the pilot house
and the counter-top aft, around the cockpit sink, DO appear to have fiddles.
To get even more picky, the fiddle on the table in the pilot house has no cut
out, so it can be difficult to get damp crumbs off the table top. Conversely,
there ARE cut-outs in the fiddle atop that cockpit counter top, thus making
the matter of swiping the surface clean of crumbs and such the easies to do.

A plus for this 80-footer is that it appears to do a VERY good job of
including handrails all around the edges of the galley counters. Bravo! That
is something that is almost always lacking in the production-built cats with
which I'm familiar. But why, then, wasn't equal attention paid to providing
similar hand-rails within the perimeter of the shower....where one will, at
times, be even more vulnerable to being thrown about. (You can't look out
windows as in a galley and see oncoming rollers-- and if you're washing your
hair while underway, and have your eyes shut, you are REALLY vulnerable to
ANY
motion that the boat suddenly makes.) Similarly, there appear to be an
absence
of handholds around critical areas (seating...along the overheads...etc.),
that a go-anywhere 80-footer (which this certainly seems to be), would
benefit
from having installed. Because you have more motion up on the second level,
I'd especially like to see more (any?) handholds in the pilot house. Moving
across that large, open area in a seaway could throw you quite a distance.
Fro
that reason, I like overhead rails (although, such rails can be problematic
for short crew members. So, 1 or 2 floor-to-ceiling poles -- or at least
handls/rails along a few bulkheads -- is desirable.

Exterior Design -- Given that this cat was probably custom-built for the
owner, we can assume it represents a look that he desired. And frankly, there
is a market for this type of chunky-looking, "expedition-type" yacht design.
(Nordhavn's enjoyed years of success with its "chunky,
trawler/expedition-type" look.) But, from the viewpoint of strictly "greatest
resale value," a sleeker design (although not necessarily flat-out,
"Italian-chic") is apt to resell faster, because it will appeal to a larger
group of buyers.

A larger objection -- despite the apparent high-quality of the interior
fit-out -- is that the all-wood interior is likely to be off-putting to many
prospective buyers. People, for example, almost never seek that in a home --
and especially, not the same wood, throughout, for ALL walls (builkheads),
doors, window frames, etc. Typically, the larger the yacht, the more often
its
interior will be a combination of wood, fabrics, and other textured surfaces.
(Check out any boating magazine that features yachts in the 60' to 100'
range.) Again, I'm not harping on a personal preference -- but rather,
passing
along what years of clients have educated me to. Of course, as with the
exterior design, if this near-all-wood interior is what the original owner
wanted, then he got the specific yacht he desired....and thus was probably
highly pleased with that choice. If so, bravo to him for that. But if YOU are
currently considering the interior design options for a power cat you're
hoping to have built -- and if resale value is important to you -- I
recommend
not selecting an all-wood interior.

A LOT of compromises must be accepted in trying to create a 35'
cruising-power-cat....fewer in a 60-footer....and by the time you move beyond
75 feet, one hopes that a whole slew of beneficial-and-proven design features
(some enhancing safety, ALL increasing ergonomic comfort) would be standard
in
a big-cat's design.

Rod Gibbons
Cruising Cats USA
Seattle - San Francisco Bay - Hawaii

Power-Catamaran Mailing List