1. Re: GPSDO Component Selection (Azelio Boriani)
2. Re: REF osc distribution. (Gaudin Luc)
3. HP z3801a dc-dc converter (g3ueq@talktalk.net)
4. Re: HP z3801a dc-dc converter (Azelio Boriani)
5. Re: Re; New Wrist watch (David McGaw)
6. Re: Re; New Wrist watch (David McGaw)
7. Re: Re; New Wrist watch (Pierpaolo Bernardi)

I am a moderator at the HAQ forum. If you would post uour requirements there for a TC watch, you will get helpful responses. Ronald On 9/10/12, time-nuts-request@febo.com <time-nuts-request@febo.com> wrote: > Send time-nuts mailing list submissions to > time-nuts@febo.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > time-nuts-request@febo.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > time-nuts-owner@febo.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of time-nuts digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: GPSDO Component Selection (Azelio Boriani) > 2. Re: REF osc distribution. (Gaudin Luc) > 3. HP z3801a dc-dc converter (g3ueq@talktalk.net) > 4. Re: HP z3801a dc-dc converter (Azelio Boriani) > 5. Re: Re; New Wrist watch (David McGaw) > 6. Re: Re; New Wrist watch (David McGaw) > 7. Re: Re; New Wrist watch (Pierpaolo Bernardi) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 14:11:48 +0200 > From: Azelio Boriani <azelio.boriani@screen.it> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPSDO Component Selection > Message-ID: > <CAL8XPmPavv7MyPuDDRYJTEC9j6zct+HhpfAr=MqYTjZkUmkrTw@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > There is something missing in this sentence: >>The integration period determines >>how much of the very accurate long term GPS information <missing verb?> > with the short >>term, highly stable, clock information. Hence a GPSDO. > That is: how much of the very accurate GPS information leak? are > transferred to? Interact? with the short term... > I expect that the integration time is related to the end of the short term > oscillator variation and the start of the long term GPS steering. This > should help in the proper selection of this time: maybe the time should be > adapted to the temperature variation too. > > > On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 11:56 AM, Michael Perrett > <mkperrett@gmail.com>wrote: > >> First - I realize 95% of the folks reading this are well aware of what I >> am >> going to say. >> >> No matter how good your equipment (receiver/antenna) is, the short term >> accuracy of GPS time is defined in *GLOBAL POSITIONING SYSTEM STANDARD >> POSITIONING SERVICE PERFORMANCE STANDARD (2008)*. This document can be >> found at http://www.gps.gov/technical/ps/#spsps. >> >> The guaranteed timing accuracy (short term) is found in Table 3.8-3. SPS >> Position/Time Accuracy Standards. The time domain transfer accuracy is >> defined as "? 40 nsec time transfer error 95% of time >> (SIS only)". In order to achieve this the "(SIS only)" comment means you >> have a perfect receiver that introduces no errors (good luck with that >> one). Most commercial users set their probability at around 30 nS, and >> experience virtually no estimates out of that boundary. >> >> The 30 nS error can be reduced to a better number if position is >> accurately >> known and the receiver "knows" that it is stationary - but still 5% of >> the >> time you can get noisy / degraded time and still be "in spec.". I am not >> sure over what time span the 95% number is used. >> >> Now: The real answer is to take the relatively noisy GPS timing >> information >> and use it to discipline a device that is (extremely) stable over a short >> time such as a OCXO or Rubidium standard. The integration period >> determines >> how much of the very accurate long term GPS information with the short >> term, highly stable, clock information. Hence a GPSDO. >> >> Michael / K7HIL >> >> >> >> On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 3:10 PM, Jerry <jsternmd@att.net> wrote: >> >> > Sounds like the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle at work :-) >> > >> > jerry >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On >> > Behalf Of Bob Camp >> > Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 5:53 PM >> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPSDO Component Selection >> > >> > Hi >> > >> > Position accuracy and timing accuracy are two very different things. >> > Firmware is optimized to improve either one. "Position" firmware is >> > often >> > pretty poor for timing. >> > >> > Bob >> > >> > On Sep 9, 2012, at 5:05 PM, Chris Albertson <albertson.chris@gmail.com> >> > wrote: >> > >> > > On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 1:14 PM, <bg@lysator.liu.se> wrote: >> > > >> > >> True for a cheap oem navigation receiver. Not true for a geodetic >> > >> quality receiver, who usually have some options (external frequency >> > >> input, PPS_in) to make them the best timing receivers available. >> > >> However they are much more expensive than the typical single >> > >> frequency >> > timing reciver. >> > > >> > > I looked at every link and can't see where they give a timing >> > > accuracy >> > > spec on the PPS with respect to UTC. Possition accurracy is very >> > > good and we might assume the timing is as good. But they don't say >> > > it >> > > is. What's interesting is these GPSes will accept an accurate clock >> > > input in order to give better location data. That is the opposite >> > > of >> > > a timing GPS where you tell it accurate location data so that it can >> > > get better timing. Cutting down the unknown in one lets you do >> > > better in the other. I assume these all cost well over $50. You >> > > can >> > > get a pretty good timing GPS for $30 and it WILL have the PPS error >> > > specified. >> > > >> > > To the OP. None of this matters a lot because PPS is a standard >> > > input >> > > signal. It is easy to swap out a GPS receiver later. Same with the >> > > OCXO. From a control point of view they are all pretty much the >> > > same. >> > > You can swap them out later >> > > >> > > >> > > Chris Albertson >> > > Redondo Beach, California >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >> > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> > > and follow the instructions there. >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> > and follow the instructions there. >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> > To unsubscribe, go to >> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> > and follow the instructions there. >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 14:13:49 +0200 > From: "Gaudin Luc" <lgaudin@naelcom.com> > To: "'Robert Atkinson'" <robert8rpi@yahoo.co.uk>, "'Discussion of > precise time and frequency measurement'" <time-nuts@febo.com> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] REF osc distribution. > Message-ID: <07b201cd8f4d$c13df7d0$43b9e770$@com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hello, > > I understand your remarks but so far nobody who buy these unit complain > about the performances. > People are using it for 5DB to 13dB 10MHz Sine wave distribution, others > are > using it for 1PPS distribution in TTL (O-5volt) or in TTL (0-3.3Volt). > Performance are good enough for the telecom and military application we are > offering the unit. > The gain of the unit is 0dB (1): same output than input level and slew rate > is 2KV/microsec. > Each output have his own op amps. > For price contact me by email luc.gaudin@naelcom.com. > Regards > > Luc > > -----Message d'origine----- > De?: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] De la > part de Robert Atkinson > Envoy??: vendredi 7 septembre 2012 08:31 > ??: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Objet?: Re: [time-nuts] REF osc distribution. > > Hi > It may be a language issue, but the datasheet does not present this > amplifier very well. I wondered about the specification for squarewave > input > "TTL 3.3V" TTL is 5V. What is the slew rate of the amplifier? It's > specified > to 50MHz, will it accurately reproduce a 50MHz square wave? A 1V RMS output > is not going to reproduce a TTL 1PPS or 10MHz clock?very well. It does > state > that each output is isolated and?buffered. It reads as a general purpose > wideband amplifier rather than one optimised for a particular timing > application. > ? > Robert G8RPI > > > ________________________________ > From: Charles P. Steinmetz <charles_steinmetz@lavabit.com> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Sent: Thursday, 6 September 2012, 20:54 > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] REF osc distribution. > > Luc wrote: > >> We have a product that have been specially design for these : NGA-DIS > > Thank you for the link.? The data sheet raises a few questions: > > The sine wave input level is specified as "1Vrms nominal 0.5V Peak to > peak."? Of course, 1Vrms is ~2.8Vp-p.? It is not clear what this > specification means. > > Gain and noise are not specified, nor is isolation from output to input or > from the outputs to each other.? These are parameters that many buyers will > want to know. > > Have you characterized the NGA-DIS for phase noise?? That is also a > parameter many buyers will want to know. > > Does each output have its own output amplifier, or does one amplifier drive > multiple outputs through individual build-out resistors? > > Does the NGA-DIS use op amps, or discrete circuitry? > > What is the price? > > Best regards, > > Charles > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 09:14:17 -0400 > From: "g3ueq@talktalk.net" <g3ueq@talktalk.net> > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Subject: [time-nuts] HP z3801a dc-dc converter > Message-ID: <380-22012911013141726@M2W134.mail2web.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Hi > Does anyone have a spare Datel DC-DC converter for this standard, mine has > died after not being used for 3 years, it has a short on the +15V o/p and > they seem to be like hens teeth now. > Regards > > Andy > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 15:48:44 +0200 > From: Azelio Boriani <azelio.boriani@screen.it> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP z3801a dc-dc converter > Message-ID: > <CAL8XPmNi-fb3dW5wkFFCd-4y=o0jU+eWH=PXWHoxiyMjX=aU2g@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Sure it is the DC-DC with the output shorted? Maybe the short is on the > board. Try to measure with the DC-DC removed. Anyway if the Datel DC-DC is > a 2x2 inches unit then it is an industry standard and you can try other > brands. > > On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 3:14 PM, g3ueq@talktalk.net > <g3ueq@talktalk.net>wrote: > >> Hi >> Does anyone have a spare Datel DC-DC converter for this standard, mine >> has >> died after not being used for 3 years, it has a short on the +15V o/p and >> they seem to be like hens teeth now. >> Regards >> >> Andy >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> mail2web - Check your email from the web at >> http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 09:57:40 -0400 > From: David McGaw <n1hac@Alum.Dartmouth.ORG> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Re; New Wrist watch > Message-ID: <504DF1D4.8060003@alum.dartmouth.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > He's making a joke - If you are traveling across time zones, why not > just set it to UTC and be done with it? :-) > > David > > > On 9/10/12 7:57 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote: >> Precision is precision, whatever time scale you use. UTC, CET, TAI, use >> what you want but stability and accuracy is the must. >> >> On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Rich and Marcia Putz >> <rputz@bnin.net>wrote: >> >>> Bob; >>> >>> Being this is Time-Nuts and all, shouldn't you be using UTC anyway? ;) >>> >>> Rich >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 10:04:01 -0400 > From: David McGaw <n1hac@Alum.Dartmouth.ORG> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Re; New Wrist watch > Message-ID: <504DF351.60602@alum.dartmouth.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > It was mentioned a while back that there are watches that are > temperature compensated. I would be interested in knowing which are. > The self-setting ones are nice and I have one, but I am often in places > that are not in range the transmitter (Greenland, Antarctica for > instance) and I would like it not to drift. > > Thanks, > > David > > > On 9/10/12 9:57 AM, David McGaw wrote: >> He's making a joke - If you are traveling across time zones, why not >> just set it to UTC and be done with it? :-) >> >> David >> >> >> On 9/10/12 7:57 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote: >>> Precision is precision, whatever time scale you use. UTC, CET, TAI, use >>> what you want but stability and accuracy is the must. >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Rich and Marcia Putz >>> <rputz@bnin.net>wrote: >>> >>>> Bob; >>>> >>>> Being this is Time-Nuts and all, shouldn't you be using UTC anyway? ;) >>>> >>>> Rich >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 16:17:23 +0200 > From: Pierpaolo Bernardi <olopierpa@gmail.com> > To: David McGaw <n1hac@alum.dartmouth.org>, Discussion of precise > time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo.com> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Re; New Wrist watch > Message-ID: > <CANY8u7GZMX37jvJTDDFK3RLxLegJq2VNjV71apO=490M-=qbxg@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 4:04 PM, David McGaw <n1hac@alum.dartmouth.org> > wrote: >> It was mentioned a while back that there are watches that are temperature >> compensated. I would be interested in knowing which are. The >> self-setting >> ones are nice and I have one, but I am often in places that are not in >> range >> the transmitter (Greenland, Antarctica for instance) and I would like it >> not >> to drift. > > The equivalent of the time nuts list, but for watches is the "High > Accuracy Quartz watches" forum, which lives here: > http://forums.watchuseek.com/f9/ > > In the sticky topics of this forum there's a compilation of the watch > movements you are looking for. > > Cheers > P. > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list > time-nuts@febo.com > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > End of time-nuts Digest, Vol 98, Issue 31 > ***************************************** >