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Discussion of precise voltage measurement

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Datron 1281

M
MailLists
Mon, Jan 19, 2015 7:52 PM

Dear all,

got one of the (in)famous <subj.>.
The full self-test fails with:
2273 1V Range 100mV signal magnitude drift.
2283 100mV Range 100mV signal magnitude drift.

The same for a self-calibration.

Any suggestions?
Might an external calibration help? Probably not calibrated for a long
time...

Regards,
Gabi

Dear all, got one of the (in)famous <subj.>. The full self-test fails with: 2273 1V Range 100mV signal magnitude drift. 2283 100mV Range 100mV signal magnitude drift. The same for a self-calibration. Any suggestions? Might an external calibration help? Probably not calibrated for a long time... Regards, Gabi
LM
Laurence Motteram
Mon, Jan 19, 2015 8:57 PM

An external calibration may help, as (usually/optionally) the internal calibration source is characterized at the end of the calibration process.

If you have the equipment to do so, it would be good to verify that there is not something more sinister going on with the 100mV and 1V ranges other than simple drift.

Best Regards,

Laurence Motteram

-----Original Message-----
From: volt-nuts [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of MailLists
Sent: Tuesday, 20 January 2015 6:53 AM
To: volt-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [volt-nuts] Datron 1281

Dear all,

got one of the (in)famous <subj.>.
The full self-test fails with:
2273 1V Range 100mV signal magnitude drift.
2283 100mV Range 100mV signal magnitude drift.

The same for a self-calibration.

Any suggestions?
Might an external calibration help? Probably not calibrated for a long time...

Regards,
Gabi


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An external calibration may help, as (usually/optionally) the internal calibration source is characterized at the end of the calibration process. If you have the equipment to do so, it would be good to verify that there is not something more sinister going on with the 100mV and 1V ranges other than simple drift. Best Regards, Laurence Motteram -----Original Message----- From: volt-nuts [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of MailLists Sent: Tuesday, 20 January 2015 6:53 AM To: volt-nuts@febo.com Subject: [volt-nuts] Datron 1281 Dear all, got one of the (in)famous <subj.>. The full self-test fails with: 2273 1V Range 100mV signal magnitude drift. 2283 100mV Range 100mV signal magnitude drift. The same for a self-calibration. Any suggestions? Might an external calibration help? Probably not calibrated for a long time... Regards, Gabi _______________________________________________ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Message protected by MailGuard: e-mail anti-virus, anti-spam and content filtering. http://www.mailguard.com.au
M
MailLists
Tue, Jan 20, 2015 9:09 AM

I have access to a metrology lab with a Fluke 5522A, and a 8508A.
Any hints regarding what should be checked (more thoroughly)?

Regards,
Gabi

On 1/19/2015 10:57 PM, Laurence Motteram wrote:

An external calibration may help, as (usually/optionally) the internal calibration source is characterized at the end of the calibration process.

If you have the equipment to do so, it would be good to verify that there is not something more sinister going on with the 100mV and 1V ranges other than simple drift.

Best Regards,

Laurence Motteram

-----Original Message-----
From: volt-nuts [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of MailLists
Sent: Tuesday, 20 January 2015 6:53 AM
To: volt-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [volt-nuts] Datron 1281

Dear all,

got one of the (in)famous <subj.>.
The full self-test fails with:
2273 1V Range 100mV signal magnitude drift.
2283 100mV Range 100mV signal magnitude drift.

The same for a self-calibration.

Any suggestions?
Might an external calibration help? Probably not calibrated for a long time...

Regards,
Gabi


volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

I have access to a metrology lab with a Fluke 5522A, and a 8508A. Any hints regarding what should be checked (more thoroughly)? Regards, Gabi On 1/19/2015 10:57 PM, Laurence Motteram wrote: > An external calibration may help, as (usually/optionally) the internal calibration source is characterized at the end of the calibration process. > > If you have the equipment to do so, it would be good to verify that there is not something more sinister going on with the 100mV and 1V ranges other than simple drift. > > Best Regards, > > Laurence Motteram > > -----Original Message----- > From: volt-nuts [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of MailLists > Sent: Tuesday, 20 January 2015 6:53 AM > To: volt-nuts@febo.com > Subject: [volt-nuts] Datron 1281 > > Dear all, > > got one of the (in)famous <subj.>. > The full self-test fails with: > 2273 1V Range 100mV signal magnitude drift. > 2283 100mV Range 100mV signal magnitude drift. > > The same for a self-calibration. > > Any suggestions? > Might an external calibration help? Probably not calibrated for a long time... > > > Regards, > Gabi > _______________________________________________ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >
TM
Todd Micallef
Tue, Jan 20, 2015 3:42 PM

I have not seen inside a 1281, but my 4920 has a 3V battery for the cal
constants. I am guessing that the unit would have flagged error codes
2110-2113.

Looking at the specs, it looks like the meter uses the 1V and 100mV ranges
for measuring resistance based on the selected range and whether or not it
is in LoI mode. The error messages appear that it is a gross measurement
error of over 100mV on both flagged ranges. I would think the 5522A would
be good enough for a quick sanity check of all possible inputs.

Todd

On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 4:09 AM, MailLists lists@medesign.ro wrote:

I have access to a metrology lab with a Fluke 5522A, and a 8508A.
Any hints regarding what should be checked (more thoroughly)?

Regards,
Gabi

On 1/19/2015 10:57 PM, Laurence Motteram wrote:

An external calibration may help, as (usually/optionally) the internal
calibration source is characterized at the end of the calibration process.

If you have the equipment to do so, it would be good to verify that there
is not something more sinister going on with the 100mV and 1V ranges other
than simple drift.

Best Regards,

Laurence Motteram

-----Original Message-----
From: volt-nuts [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of
MailLists
Sent: Tuesday, 20 January 2015 6:53 AM
To: volt-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [volt-nuts] Datron 1281

Dear all,

got one of the (in)famous <subj.>.
The full self-test fails with:
2273    1V Range 100mV signal magnitude drift.
2283    100mV Range 100mV signal magnitude drift.

The same for a self-calibration.

Any suggestions?
Might an external calibration help? Probably not calibrated for a long
time...

Regards,
Gabi


volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
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mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

I have not seen inside a 1281, but my 4920 has a 3V battery for the cal constants. I am guessing that the unit would have flagged error codes 2110-2113. Looking at the specs, it looks like the meter uses the 1V and 100mV ranges for measuring resistance based on the selected range and whether or not it is in LoI mode. The error messages appear that it is a gross measurement error of over 100mV on both flagged ranges. I would think the 5522A would be good enough for a quick sanity check of all possible inputs. Todd On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 4:09 AM, MailLists <lists@medesign.ro> wrote: > I have access to a metrology lab with a Fluke 5522A, and a 8508A. > Any hints regarding what should be checked (more thoroughly)? > > > Regards, > Gabi > > > > On 1/19/2015 10:57 PM, Laurence Motteram wrote: > >> An external calibration may help, as (usually/optionally) the internal >> calibration source is characterized at the end of the calibration process. >> >> If you have the equipment to do so, it would be good to verify that there >> is not something more sinister going on with the 100mV and 1V ranges other >> than simple drift. >> >> Best Regards, >> >> Laurence Motteram >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: volt-nuts [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of >> MailLists >> Sent: Tuesday, 20 January 2015 6:53 AM >> To: volt-nuts@febo.com >> Subject: [volt-nuts] Datron 1281 >> >> Dear all, >> >> got one of the (in)famous <subj.>. >> The full self-test fails with: >> 2273 1V Range 100mV signal magnitude drift. >> 2283 100mV Range 100mV signal magnitude drift. >> >> The same for a self-calibration. >> >> Any suggestions? >> Might an external calibration help? Probably not calibrated for a long >> time... >> >> >> Regards, >> Gabi >> _______________________________________________ >> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >
LM
Laurence Motteram
Tue, Jan 20, 2015 11:00 PM

I would just check that all of the DCV ranges were reasonably accurate (<50ppm???) and were linear at e.g. 0V, +/- 0.5V, 1V, 1.5V, 1.9V.

Best Regards,

Laurence Motteram

-----Original Message-----
From: volt-nuts [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of MailLists
Sent: Tuesday, 20 January 2015 8:09 PM
To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Datron 1281

I have access to a metrology lab with a Fluke 5522A, and a 8508A.
Any hints regarding what should be checked (more thoroughly)?

Regards,
Gabi

On 1/19/2015 10:57 PM, Laurence Motteram wrote:

An external calibration may help, as (usually/optionally) the internal calibration source is characterized at the end of the calibration process.

If you have the equipment to do so, it would be good to verify that there is not something more sinister going on with the 100mV and 1V ranges other than simple drift.

Best Regards,

Laurence Motteram

-----Original Message-----
From: volt-nuts [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of
MailLists
Sent: Tuesday, 20 January 2015 6:53 AM
To: volt-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [volt-nuts] Datron 1281

Dear all,

got one of the (in)famous <subj.>.
The full self-test fails with:
2273 1V Range 100mV signal magnitude drift.
2283 100mV Range 100mV signal magnitude drift.

The same for a self-calibration.

Any suggestions?
Might an external calibration help? Probably not calibrated for a long time...

Regards,
Gabi


volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
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I would just check that all of the DCV ranges were reasonably accurate (<50ppm???) and were linear at e.g. 0V, +/- 0.5V, 1V, 1.5V, 1.9V. Best Regards, Laurence Motteram -----Original Message----- From: volt-nuts [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of MailLists Sent: Tuesday, 20 January 2015 8:09 PM To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Datron 1281 I have access to a metrology lab with a Fluke 5522A, and a 8508A. Any hints regarding what should be checked (more thoroughly)? Regards, Gabi On 1/19/2015 10:57 PM, Laurence Motteram wrote: > An external calibration may help, as (usually/optionally) the internal calibration source is characterized at the end of the calibration process. > > If you have the equipment to do so, it would be good to verify that there is not something more sinister going on with the 100mV and 1V ranges other than simple drift. > > Best Regards, > > Laurence Motteram > > -----Original Message----- > From: volt-nuts [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of > MailLists > Sent: Tuesday, 20 January 2015 6:53 AM > To: volt-nuts@febo.com > Subject: [volt-nuts] Datron 1281 > > Dear all, > > got one of the (in)famous <subj.>. > The full self-test fails with: > 2273 1V Range 100mV signal magnitude drift. > 2283 100mV Range 100mV signal magnitude drift. > > The same for a self-calibration. > > Any suggestions? > Might an external calibration help? Probably not calibrated for a long time... > > > Regards, > Gabi > _______________________________________________ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Message protected by MailGuard: e-mail anti-virus, anti-spam and content filtering. http://www.mailguard.com.au
M
MailLists
Wed, Jan 21, 2015 6:24 AM

Actually it's a 3.6V (SL-750/T) one. It still has ~3.68V, and no NVRAM
checksum errors are reported.

It's a no opts unit (only DCV), so the errors are not related to
resistance measurement.
As Hubert (Dankeschön) pointed out, it's related to the int cal src
drifting outside certain ranges.
As Laurence (thank you) observed, it probably would be fixed with the
int src cal characterization after ext cal, if nothing is physically wrong.

The manual specifies:
N.B.
Full Selftest cannot be selected unless a successful
'Internal Source Calibration' has been carried out
since the most-recent External Calibration.
Caution
The success of Full Selftest can be inhibited by:
• temperature not in the range: 13°C to 33°C;
• more than 1 year since Internal Source
Calibration executed;
• temperature more than 10degC different from
Internal Source Calibration; or
• presence of excessive RFI or Line noise.

2273 1V Range - Attenuated +10V Ref Magnitude Drift
Digital comparison of the present magnitude against that
recorded at the most-recent Internal Source Cal.
+100mV Signal Mag. Drift  1-10ppm < drift < 1+10ppm

2283 100mV Range - Attenuated +10V Ref Magnitude Drift
Digital comparison of the present magnitude against that
recorded at the most-recent Internal Source Cal.
+100mV Signal Mag. Drift  1-20ppm < drift < 1+20ppm

How would that drift be determined, without an ext cal?

Regards,
Gabi

On 1/20/2015 5:42 PM, Todd Micallef wrote:

I have not seen inside a 1281, but my 4920 has a 3V battery for the cal
constants. I am guessing that the unit would have flagged error codes
2110-2113.

Looking at the specs, it looks like the meter uses the 1V and 100mV ranges
for measuring resistance based on the selected range and whether or not it
is in LoI mode. The error messages appear that it is a gross measurement
error of over 100mV on both flagged ranges. I would think the 5522A would
be good enough for a quick sanity check of all possible inputs.

Todd

Actually it's a 3.6V (SL-750/T) one. It still has ~3.68V, and no NVRAM checksum errors are reported. It's a no opts unit (only DCV), so the errors are not related to resistance measurement. As Hubert (Dankeschön) pointed out, it's related to the int cal src drifting outside certain ranges. As Laurence (thank you) observed, it probably would be fixed with the int src cal characterization after ext cal, if nothing is physically wrong. The manual specifies: N.B. Full Selftest cannot be selected unless a successful 'Internal Source Calibration' has been carried out since the most-recent External Calibration. Caution The success of Full Selftest can be inhibited by: • temperature not in the range: 13°C to 33°C; • more than 1 year since Internal Source Calibration executed; • temperature more than 10degC different from Internal Source Calibration; or • presence of excessive RFI or Line noise. 2273 1V Range - Attenuated +10V Ref Magnitude Drift Digital comparison of the present magnitude against that recorded at the most-recent Internal Source Cal. +100mV Signal Mag. Drift 1-10ppm < drift < 1+10ppm 2283 100mV Range - Attenuated +10V Ref Magnitude Drift Digital comparison of the present magnitude against that recorded at the most-recent Internal Source Cal. +100mV Signal Mag. Drift 1-20ppm < drift < 1+20ppm How would that drift be determined, without an ext cal? Regards, Gabi On 1/20/2015 5:42 PM, Todd Micallef wrote: > I have not seen inside a 1281, but my 4920 has a 3V battery for the cal > constants. I am guessing that the unit would have flagged error codes > 2110-2113. > > Looking at the specs, it looks like the meter uses the 1V and 100mV ranges > for measuring resistance based on the selected range and whether or not it > is in LoI mode. The error messages appear that it is a gross measurement > error of over 100mV on both flagged ranges. I would think the 5522A would > be good enough for a quick sanity check of all possible inputs. > > Todd >
Михаил
Tue, Mar 10, 2015 6:16 AM

Hi,
Datron 1271 Calibration and Servicing Handbook with schematic diagrams was
uploaded to the ko4bb site.

Regards,
Mickle T.

Hi, Datron 1271 Calibration and Servicing Handbook with schematic diagrams was uploaded to the ko4bb site. Regards, Mickle T.
DJ
Didier Juges
Tue, Mar 10, 2015 11:13 AM

Thank you, it will be moved promptly!

Didier KO4BB

On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 1:16 AM, Михаил timka2k@yandex.ru wrote:

Hi,
Datron 1271 Calibration and Servicing Handbook with schematic diagrams was
uploaded to the ko4bb site.

Regards,
Mickle T.


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Thank you, it will be moved promptly! Didier KO4BB On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 1:16 AM, Михаил <timka2k@yandex.ru> wrote: > Hi, > Datron 1271 Calibration and Servicing Handbook with schematic diagrams was > uploaded to the ko4bb site. > > Regards, > Mickle T. > > > > _______________________________________________ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >