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Cruising America's Great Loop and other inland routes

Re: GL: Inverter/Charger

Jim Healy

Mon, Sep 8, 2014 11:01 AM

Joe and Connie,

Yesterday, I posted on the MTOA list about our Magnum MS2012, ME-RC Remote Control and ME-BMK Battery Monitoring system aboard Sanctuary. As I said, I have had one installed since October, 2008, and it has worked flawlessly for us in an environment that sounds a lot like the profile of yours, and I do recommend it as best among the alternatives.

That said, I should have thought to mention what Al Thomason brought up. Al encountered a significant limitation while using the MS2012 to start inductive loads, like his washer/dryer motor and air compressor motor. He did significant, advanced investigation, identified the problem (power factor issue), and developed a workaround that worked (washer/dryer) for his environment. His workaround worked for some others with the problem, but not for all others, and it's clear that problem is in the MS2012 design.

Aboard Sanctuary, we DO NOT have any of the kinds of motor loads that make the unit fail, so we have not had that problem. We have had no problems at all. For our fridge, coffee pot, crock pot, microwave, space lighting, computing, TV and DVR, it's been a fine, trouble-free pure sine wave unit at a reasonable price with good post-sale service and good parts availability (if needed). I can also tell you that the universal AC motors found in rotary tools and some appliances (blender, mixer, saw, sander/polisher, grinder, etc) work fine on the MS2012. If you have split phase appliance motors on your Manatee, go up one size to the MS2812.

I also note you've been cautioned somewhere in all of these list posts about the size of your battery bank. With careful management, 460aHr will be OK. Not plush, but OK. YOU DO NEED A GOOD QUALITY BATTERY MONITOR, and the Magnum ME-BMK is best-of-breed. The MS2012 will have no problem charging your battery bank to full. At the point at which batteries reach their "gassing voltage" (usually near about the 85% state-of-charge number people like to throw around) the Charge Acceptance Rate has dropped, the internal resistance has risen, heat is being generated, and hydrogen is being liberated in large quantities. The charging profile for the batteries is intended to cause the charger to go from its bulk mode to absorb mode very nearly PRECEDING that gassing voltage point on the charge curve for the battery type. With ALL lead/acid batteries (wet cells, AGM, GEL and TPPL) it takes as long in elapsed time to complete that last 15% (85% to 100% state of charge) as it does to get to the 85% point. That said, you won't want to do that by running the genset, at least not on a routine basis, with ANY charger or inverter/charger. But if you run your engine 6 hrs or so a day while cruising - at least once a week - and the alternator can also charge the batteries, it will not be a problem (not hurt the batteries, not reduce their expected service life) with the 2KW AC charging device.

Hope this is useful.

Jim

Peg and Jim Healy aboard Sanctuary, currently at Rock Creek, Pasadena, MD
http://gilwellbear.wordpress.com
Monk 36 Hull #132
MMSI #367042570
AGLCA #3767
MTOA #3436

Joe and Connie, Yesterday, I posted on the MTOA list about our Magnum MS2012, ME-RC Remote Control and ME-BMK Battery Monitoring system aboard Sanctuary. As I said, I have had one installed since October, 2008, and it has worked flawlessly for us in an environment that sounds a lot like the profile of yours, and I do recommend it as best among the alternatives. That said, I should have thought to mention what Al Thomason brought up. Al encountered a significant limitation while using the MS2012 to start inductive loads, like his washer/dryer motor and air compressor motor. He did significant, advanced investigation, identified the problem (power factor issue), and developed a workaround that worked (washer/dryer) for his environment. His workaround worked for some others with the problem, but not for all others, and it's clear that problem is in the MS2012 design. Aboard Sanctuary, we DO NOT have any of the kinds of motor loads that make the unit fail, so we have not had that problem. We have had no problems at all. For our fridge, coffee pot, crock pot, microwave, space lighting, computing, TV and DVR, it's been a fine, trouble-free pure sine wave unit at a reasonable price with good post-sale service and good parts availability (if needed). I can also tell you that the universal AC motors found in rotary tools and some appliances (blender, mixer, saw, sander/polisher, grinder, etc) work fine on the MS2012. If you have split phase appliance motors on your Manatee, go up one size to the MS2812. I also note you've been cautioned somewhere in all of these list posts about the size of your battery bank. With careful management, 460aHr will be OK. Not plush, but OK. YOU DO NEED A GOOD QUALITY BATTERY MONITOR, and the Magnum ME-BMK is best-of-breed. The MS2012 will have no problem charging your battery bank to full. At the point at which batteries reach their "gassing voltage" (usually near about the 85% state-of-charge number people like to throw around) the Charge Acceptance Rate has dropped, the internal resistance has risen, heat is being generated, and hydrogen is being liberated in large quantities. The charging profile for the batteries is intended to cause the charger to go from its bulk mode to absorb mode very nearly PRECEDING that gassing voltage point on the charge curve for the battery type. With ALL lead/acid batteries (wet cells, AGM, GEL and TPPL) it takes as long in elapsed time to complete that last 15% (85% to 100% state of charge) as it does to get to the 85% point. That said, you won't want to do that by running the genset, at least not on a routine basis, with ANY charger or inverter/charger. But if you run your engine 6 hrs or so a day while cruising - at least once a week - and the alternator can also charge the batteries, it will not be a problem (not hurt the batteries, not reduce their expected service life) with the 2KW AC charging device. Hope this is useful. Jim Peg and Jim Healy aboard Sanctuary, currently at Rock Creek, Pasadena, MD http://gilwellbear.wordpress.com Monk 36 Hull #132 MMSI #367042570 AGLCA #3767 MTOA #3436

MY ALLEZ

Mon, Sep 8, 2014 2:00 PM

Cruise Safe

Bob Kovach
Chief Engr M/Y ALLEZ!
Lying Manitowoc, WI on the Loop

On Monday, September 8, 2014 6:01 AM, Jim Healy gilwellbear@gmail.com wrote:

Joe and Connie,

I also note you've been cautioned somewhere in all of these list posts about the size of your battery bank. With careful management, 460aHr will be OK. Not plush, but OK. YOU DO NEED A GOOD QUALITY BATTERY MONITOR, and the Magnum ME-BMK is best-of-breed. The MS2012 will have no problem charging your battery bank to full. At the point at which batteries reach their "gassing voltage" (usually near about the 85% state-of-charge number people like to throw around) the Charge Acceptance Rate has dropped, the internal resistance has risen, heat is being generated, and hydrogen is being liberated in large quantities. The charging profile for the batteries is intended to cause the charger to go from its bulk mode to absorb mode very nearly PRECEDING that gassing voltage point on the charge curve for the battery type. With ALL lead/acid batteries (wet cells, AGM, GEL and TPPL) it takes as long in elapsed time to complete that last 15% (85% to 100% state of
charge) as it does to get to the 85% point. That said, you won't want to do that by running the genset, at least not on a routine basis, with ANY charger or inverter/charger. But if you run your engine 6 hrs or so a day while cruising - at least once a week - and the alternator can also charge the batteries, it will not be a problem (not hurt the batteries, not reduce their expected service life) with the 2KW AC charging device.

Hope this is useful.

Jim

Peg and Jim Healy aboard Sanctuary, currently at Rock Creek, Pasadena, MD
http://gilwellbear.wordpress.com/
Monk 36 Hull #132
MMSI #367042570
AGLCA #3767
MTOA #3436

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I have the Magnum 2800 watt inverter pure sine wave and BMK and Rc Control panel since 2014. Works like a charm. Highly recommend it and echo Jim Healy's comments. It runs all the devices he mentioned. I would not try running my washer/dryer on it. The dryer is 240 volt. Washer 120v Cruise Safe Bob Kovach Chief Engr M/Y ALLEZ! Lying Manitowoc, WI on the Loop On Monday, September 8, 2014 6:01 AM, Jim Healy <gilwellbear@gmail.com> wrote: Joe and Connie, Yesterday, I posted on the MTOA list about our Magnum MS2012, ME-RC Remote Control and ME-BMK Battery Monitoring system aboard Sanctuary. As I said, I have had one installed since October, 2008, and it has worked flawlessly for us in an environment that sounds a lot like the profile of yours, and I do recommend it as best among the alternatives. That said, I should have thought to mention what Al Thomason brought up. Al encountered a significant limitation while using the MS2012 to start inductive loads, like his washer/dryer motor and air compressor motor. He did significant, advanced investigation, identified the problem (power factor issue), and developed a workaround that worked (washer/dryer) for his environment. His workaround worked for some others with the problem, but not for all others, and it's clear that problem is in the MS2012 design. Aboard Sanctuary, we DO NOT have any of the kinds of motor loads that make the unit fail, so we have not had that problem. We have had no problems at all. For our fridge, coffee pot, crock pot, microwave, space lighting, computing, TV and DVR, it's been a fine, trouble-free pure sine wave unit at a reasonable price with good post-sale service and good parts availability (if needed). I can also tell you that the universal AC motors found in rotary tools and some appliances (blender, mixer, saw, sander/polisher, grinder, etc) work fine on the MS2012. If you have split phase appliance motors on your Manatee, go up one size to the MS2812. I also note you've been cautioned somewhere in all of these list posts about the size of your battery bank. With careful management, 460aHr will be OK. Not plush, but OK. YOU DO NEED A GOOD QUALITY BATTERY MONITOR, and the Magnum ME-BMK is best-of-breed. The MS2012 will have no problem charging your battery bank to full. At the point at which batteries reach their "gassing voltage" (usually near about the 85% state-of-charge number people like to throw around) the Charge Acceptance Rate has dropped, the internal resistance has risen, heat is being generated, and hydrogen is being liberated in large quantities. The charging profile for the batteries is intended to cause the charger to go from its bulk mode to absorb mode very nearly PRECEDING that gassing voltage point on the charge curve for the battery type. With ALL lead/acid batteries (wet cells, AGM, GEL and TPPL) it takes as long in elapsed time to complete that last 15% (85% to 100% state of charge) as it does to get to the 85% point. That said, you won't want to do that by running the genset, at least not on a routine basis, with ANY charger or inverter/charger. But if you run your engine 6 hrs or so a day while cruising - at least once a week - and the alternator can also charge the batteries, it will not be a problem (not hurt the batteries, not reduce their expected service life) with the 2KW AC charging device. Hope this is useful. Jim Peg and Jim Healy aboard Sanctuary, currently at Rock Creek, Pasadena, MD http://gilwellbear.wordpress.com/ Monk 36 Hull #132 MMSI #367042570 AGLCA #3767 MTOA #3436 _______________________________________________ http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com To modify your Great-Loop subscription options (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) go to: http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/options/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com