Re: Georgs fuel burn questions for Wild Wind IV
Hi Dennis,
I don't think motorsailers belong in this group. Motorsailers are sailboats,
and what is generally called a sailboat motorsails much of the time anyway, so
where would you draw the line?
You are fortunate to have a toy, as you call it, such as you do. But be
careful out there. Hitting debris at six knots is often too fast; say nothing of
20.
Enjoy!
John Camm
"Seahorse"
Dennis Raedeke wrote:
I would like to engage someone in regard to my comment in regard to a
motor sailer. If this is truly a forum for long distant ocean crossing,
that subject is in order. With cruising powercats there are a lot of
things that have not yet been completely tried. A high speed motor
sailing powercat is just one aspect of what we are going to see. I went
through the early years of cruising sailing cats in the 70's and I now
see the same thing happening with powercats. Start thinking about them
because they are coming on fast. You don't want to be the last kid on
the block to get the new toy. Grin!
I totally disagree. As far as I am concerned anyone is welcome here who
shares our interest in passagemaking and who has questions (or answers) that
would interest the group.
I recall some years back wayyyy before the internet was a public entity a
young fellow by the name of Georgs Kolesnikov showed up on the Compuserve
SAILING forum inquiring about a suitable venue for some new-fangled boat
event called a TrawlerFest that he was hoping to put on somewhere. He was
made quite welcome. I and others pointed him to Port Orchard, WA.
Hal
Hi Dennis,
I don't think motorsailers belong in this group. Motorsailers are sailboats,
and what is generally called a sailboat motorsails much of the time anyway,
so where would you draw the line?
All hands--
Methinks it's all right to discuss motorsailers here as even Bob
Beebe was interested and supportive of the concept.
As motorsailers seem to appeal to a small number of people, I don't
expect including them here will take much away from the main thrust
of Passagemaking Under Power.
--Georgs
I don't think motorsailers belong in this group. Motorsailers are
sailboats, and what is generally called a sailboat motorsails much
of the time anyway, so where would you draw the line?
You are fortunate to have a toy, as you call it, such as you do. But
be careful out there. Hitting debris at six knots is often too fast;
say nothing of 20.
Enjoy!
John Camm
"Seahorse"
Dennis Raedeke wrote:
I would like to engage someone in regard to my comment in regard to a
motor sailer. If this is truly a forum for long distant ocean crossing,
that subject is in order. With cruising powercats there are a lot of
things that have not yet been completely tried. A high speed motor
sailing powercat is just one aspect of what we are going to see. I went
through the early years of cruising sailing cats in the 70's and I now
see the same thing happening with powercats. Start thinking about them
because they are coming on fast. You don't want to be the last kid on
the block to get the new toy. Grin!
According to Scott, I shouldnt be here because Im clearly not a
passage-maker, but there is some risk in having such a small group that you
dont have a critical mass large enough to provide answers to questions.
Bob Austins expertise gained under sail is certainly reusable in a passage
making under power forum.
Scott said "I really like the idea of this group. Trawler World had too
many people who "have not done it" anywhere but
within a thousand miles of home telling what works
best everywhere."
There's some truth to that which is the genesis of the original "armchair
sailor" humor, but I'd argue the process to trouble shoot a failing
generator exciter stator is the same whether you are in the ICW or half way
to the Azores. Arild would be an asset on any voyaging list because he knows
how to trouble shoot things that break.
Exclusivity has a price. The Seven Seas Cruising Association now has twice
as many "associates" (coastal cruisers) as "commodores" (passage makers)
which will become an interesting challenge over time since everyone pays the
same dues, but only the commodores are allowed to vote.
I signed up because I have an interest in passage making, especially since
Leonard Stern did it in a boat like mine. However, if the consensus of the
group is you have to have crossed the pond to participate, I'll respectfully
check out and continue on the trawlers & Trawlering list.
Regards....
Phil Rosch
Old Harbor Consulting
M/V Curmudgeon MT-44TC
Currently moored in Man-O-War Cay, Bahamas
Earlier today Phil said: "According to Scott, I shouldn'tt be here because
Im clearly not a passage-maker"
This is not an exclusive list, it is devoted to the discussion of
Passagemaking and Circumnavigation.
Scott S. did not say you don't belong here, he simply observed that the T&T
list is made of people with widely varying perspectives, often not tempered
by the rigors of being 500 miles offshore.
Be assured your presence is welcome, but let's keep to the point, and
discuss passagemaking and circumnavigation issues. I haven't crossed the
pond, heck I have a 31' boat. You'll also notice I'm conspicuously quite,
as I have little to offer, and much to learn. Let's keep this on topic, and
not start a T&T style debate on reasons to be included or excluded from this
forum. Again EVERYONE is welcome, let's just stay on task.
Thanks, Scott Bulger, List Administrator
scottebulger@comcast.net
I don't think motorsailers belong in this group. Motorsailers are
sailboats, and what is generally called a sailboat motorsails much of
the time anyway, so where would you draw the line?
Reply:
Motorsailers are in a group by themselves, however, I believe some would
certainly qualify for our group. In an early book I read. Motorsailers
by Dag Pike (1976), Dag classified motorsailers as % power vs % sail. If
a motorsailer is 70% power and 30 % sail then perhaps there is no doubt
it is a power boat and the sail is just an auxiliary come-home
"engine".. Exactly how that 70/30% is measured I don't know However, if
a come-home engine can drive a boat 4 knots or less, then perhaps that
motorsailer would qualify for the PUP list. As you can see, there are
several ways to measure whether a motorsailer would qualify if at all.
Lets not forget that many trawlers have sails used to reduce roll.
However, as a come-home engine, I doubt they can make much headway at
all. Their ratio could be 95 % power, 5 % sail.
Hull shape comes into this equasion too. Hull shape also includes
whether you have one, two or three hulls. Cat hulls are often called
wave piercieng hulls. Isn't that because their length to width ratio is
about 10:1? And some cat hills are displacement and others are semi
planing. If you stick a significant sail on a cat that is designed as a
power cat, you can clearly call that a motorsailer and this should
qualify for the PUP list. The sail alone would probably drive it faster
than my arbitrary 4 knots stated above..
Regards, Bob Rapasky, Seahorse 31' trawler, "Venture "