Smalltalk hosting ...
Smalltalk does have open source blog and content management systems; e.g.
http://www.piercms.com Pier CMS and http://www.aidaweb.si/scribo.html
AIDAscribo ... but a lot can be improved to make them attractive
alternatives to the big http://www.drupal.org Drupal (PHP) and
http://www.joomla.org Joomla (PHP) or even smaller ones like
http://radiantcms.org Radiant CMS (Ruby) , http://www.refinerycms.com
Refinery CMS (Ruby) , http://www.django-cms.org Django CMS (Python) , etc
Smalltalk will get more exposure if it were easier (and cheaper) for people
to host their own blog or website using a Smalltalk based Blog/CMS.
Question is; what can be done to have more Smalltalkers use a Smalltalk
based blog system and attract non-Smalltalkers to try a Smalltalk CMS?
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I use Wiki server included in Mac OSX server.
It is more easier to make inter linked documents than with blogs.
-
- 17., 저녁 6:59, Geert Claes 작성:
Smalltalk does have open source blog and content management systems; e.g.
http://www.piercms.com Pier CMS and http://www.aidaweb.si/scribo.html
AIDAscribo ... but a lot can be improved to make them attractive
alternatives to the big http://www.drupal.org Drupal (PHP) and
http://www.joomla.org Joomla (PHP) or even smaller ones like
http://radiantcms.org Radiant CMS (Ruby) , http://www.refinerycms.com
Refinery CMS (Ruby) , http://www.django-cms.org Django CMS (Python) , etc
Smalltalk will get more exposure if it were easier (and cheaper) for people
to host their own blog or website using a Smalltalk based Blog/CMS.
Question is; what can be done to have more Smalltalkers use a Smalltalk
based blog system and attract non-Smalltalkers to try a Smalltalk CMS?
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I don't think suggesting for people to get their own Mac OSX Server is going
to be cheaper :)
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Regarding hosting prices, there are really cheap VPS solutions available.
I've been successfully deploying apps in a VPSLink Xen slice at a cost of
around 80$ a year (one slice per app), which is not much more than what many
web hosting companies will charge you.
Something like that makes up for developing in a Smalltalk framework being
expensive, and if the websites are simple enough, you can even run more than
one in a single image.
On the other hand, I still agree that a nice, free, end-user friendly CMS,
as powerful and easy to use as Drupal would be great to have and would get
lots of designers and web devs to use it over other more mainstream ones.
Pier is very nice, but IMO no designer (or client) will like, for example,
having to learn its markup language, they will ask you for an easy to use
WYSIWYG editor, an easy to plug image gallery, forum, wiki, whatever.
A designer can very easily learn how to install a Drupal/Joomla! extension,
but we can't ask him to learn how to embed a Javascript rich-text editor
into a Pier application... even most of us will run into several problems
when trying to do that.
I'm sure we mostly agree, but who does have the time to develop something as
titanic as this? :(
Bernat Romagosa.
Hi Geert,
On 17. 03. 2011 10:59, Geert Claes wrote:
Smalltalk does have open source blog and content management systems; e.g.
http://www.piercms.com Pier CMS and http://www.aidaweb.si/scribo.html
AIDAscribo ... but a lot can be improved to make them attractive
alternatives to the big http://www.drupal.org Drupal (PHP) and
http://www.joomla.org Joomla (PHP) or even smaller ones like
http://radiantcms.org Radiant CMS (Ruby) , http://www.refinerycms.com
Refinery CMS (Ruby) , http://www.django-cms.org Django CMS (Python) , etc
Smalltalk will get more exposure if it were easier (and cheaper) for people
to host their own blog or website using a Smalltalk based Blog/CMS.
Question is; what can be done to have more Smalltalkers use a Smalltalk
based blog system and attract non-Smalltalkers to try a Smalltalk CMS?
Time!
Preparing a CMS to the state of broad usefulness needs a lot of
development effort and specially a lot of a feeling for end user needs.
Both are strongly lacking in Smalltalk community IMHO.
Maybe a subquestion, which audience to start with, with CMS end users,
CMS developers, CMS something-in-between? To prepare something for
"dummies" like WordPress is certainly a lot of work...
Janko
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Janko Mivšek
Aida/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si
On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Geert Claes geert.wl.claes@gmail.comwrote:
Smalltalk does have open source blog and content management systems; e.g.
http://www.piercms.com Pier CMS and http://www.aidaweb.si/scribo.html
AIDAscribo ... but a lot can be improved to make them attractive
alternatives to the big http://www.drupal.org Drupal (PHP) and
http://www.joomla.org Joomla (PHP) or even smaller ones like
http://radiantcms.org Radiant CMS (Ruby) , http://www.refinerycms.com
Refinery CMS (Ruby) , http://www.django-cms.org Django CMS (Python) , etc
Smalltalk will get more exposure if it were easier (and cheaper) for people
to host their own blog or website using a Smalltalk based Blog/CMS.
Question is; what can be done to have more Smalltalkers use a Smalltalk
based blog system and attract non-Smalltalkers to try a Smalltalk CMS?
Thanks to the screencast made by Damien Cassou now I use Pier and it's quite
fun and easy to manage for basic stuff.
The big problem with Pier is the terrible lack of documentation, recipes,
how-to's...... no marketing, no communication with user.
The public of a product like Pier is not advanced Smalltalk developers.
Drupal can be managed and deployed freely by non-technical people. That's a
key of success.
Laurent.
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laurent laffont wrote:
...
The big problem with Pier is the terrible lack of documentation, recipes,
how-to's...... no marketing, no communication with user.
...
When you say marketing what do you mean exactly because an application users
want to use does its own marketing and than there is no need to do a hard
sell :)
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Having preconfigured amazon ec2 AMI with Pier correctly configured as
a blog would not hurt. And by correctly I mean really ready to go with
persistence, backups, google analyitics. And few bullet proof
tutorials how to adjust look and feel, i.e. where to poke what, and
that it works even if one does not understand what he is doing much
less can read Smalltalk code.
Of course it would be also great to have clear documentation, which
goes beyond to say that everything is a structure.
But I am afraid it is really a lot of work.
Davorin Rusevljan
http://www.cloud208.com/
Davorin Rusevljan wrote:
Having preconfigured amazon ec2 AMI with Pier correctly configured as a
blog would not hurt. And by correctly I mean really ready to go with
persistence, backups, google analyitics. And few bullet proof
tutorials how to adjust look and feel, i.e. where to poke what, and that
it works even if one does not understand what he is doing much less can
read Smalltalk code.
I think people like to know how much it will cost them and I thought AWS is
more a pay-as-you-use, in that case it would be nice to be able to give an
idea how much it will cost per month. Being able to easily change the
look-and-feel is certainly very important.
Davorin Rusevljan wrote:
Of course it would be also great to have clear documentation, which goes
beyond to say that everything is a structure.
How to use a web application - like a blog/cms - should be intuitive enough
so no or minimum documentation is required (when tinckering with the
internals this may be a different story)
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On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 6:02 AM, Geert Claes geert.wl.claes@gmail.com wrote:
laurent laffont wrote:
...
The big problem with Pier is the terrible lack of documentation, recipes,
how-to's...... no marketing, no communication with user.
...
When you say marketing what do you mean exactly because an application users
want to use does its own marketing and than there is no need to do a hard
sell :)
Marketing is NOT "hard sell". Marketing is figuring out what
customers want and removing the things preventing them from getting
it. it is finding the people who ought to use a product and letting
them know about it. Marketing often means fixing the documentation,
the license, or something else non-technical.
No product can succeed without marketing. None ever has. Sometimes
the marketing was not done by the inventor. Sometimes it is hard to
tell who is doing the marketing and just what they did. But marketing
is crucial.
One of the problems with Smalltalk now is that the good marketeers
have left it. When I heard that Dave Thomas was retiring I stood up
on the bus, which was full of Smalltalkers, and said that this was the
passing of an era, and that someone else needed to step up or
Smalltalk would falter. More Smalltalkers need to read marketing
books like "The Tipping Point" and "Crossing the Chasm".
This is a very important thread. Please don't say that marketing is
unimportant. Marketing is crucial, and a weakness in the Smalltalk
community.
-Ralph Johnson